Any of you “downgrading” to get into an FL5?

[Stick_shifter96]

What Accord do you have?

Its a 2013MY V6-6MT with an HFP Package. Its stated to have 278hp & 252lb.ft., but some tasteful mods now put it at 300+whp.
250xxxkms. And climbing. Still drives like a dream!

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[golty]

I'm considering a 'downgrade' from a BMW M340i xDrive. The BMWs are great, very quick but there is no 'feel' at all. The modern BMWs are also too heavy, you can really feel it in the bends.

The CTR looks like it will be a proper drivers car which is what I'm wanting. Had an M2 Comp before the M340i and that wasn't great either, it was DCT auto and was basically too fast for been a daily driver for me, also completely useless in cold winters.

Really like the look of the new interior of the Civics, seems a big step up and doesn't look too far what BMW interiors are offering either.

Hopefully they price it fairly in the UK, needs to be below £40k for me to consider the swap

 

[DPE]

Because the grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Ultimately it comes down to what you value most in a car.

Ask yourself… are you the type who has to feed his ego with a BMW badge, a lot more power, and RWD because the internet told you it’s “better” than FWD? - If the answer is yes - or somewhere in-between - chances are you’ll love the M2C.

I got rid of it because despite being a manual, it just wasn’t engaging enough for my liking. It’s far heavier than a CTR, the steering is extremely numb, and it’s simply too refined, which results in little connection and driver feedback. Basically the complete opposite of the e36/e46 M3’s I owned for nearly two decades. Power delivery was also annoying, as it pulls extremely hard down low and goes flat as you rev it out, which takes the fun out of it. Anytime you step on it, you’re doing triple digits and that’s just not what I want anymore.

I don’t expect folks to understand why slower is better, so I’ll just leave it at that.

I never owned a CTR, but have driven the fk8 on multiple occasions and I must say that it hits the sweet spot of being neither too fast nor too slow. Most importantly, it’s light on its feet and that’s something I pick up on instantly.

Don’t let the FWD vs RWD nonsense you hear on the forums cloud your judgement. There’s more to a fun car than its drive or power. A well sorted FWD chassis can feel more planted and predictable than RWD.

Either you know it or you don’t. The problem with car forums is extreme bias. If you end up liking the M2C, that’s cool. We all look for different things when evaluating cars. All in all, it’s a good car. I owned it for a year and loved it at first, but that nostalgia quickly wore off. For context, I owned my e46 M3 for almost 13 years and it never failed to amaze me.

If the FL5 is anywhere remotely as nimble and direct as the FK8, then I’m in for a treat.

Exactly this. I will say I still prefer RWD, but only a little. To follow on 007s post further, I have owned 3 Mustangs. A 2010 (4.6L), a 2014 5.0 and a 2015 Performance Pack. The 2014 and 2015 had KW V3 coilovers and a number of other chassis mods, wheels and tires, etc.. The 2010 had Konis and camber plates and a simple 18" square tire setup. The 2015 was chipped, very fast, and drove well for a 3800lb car. The 2014 was only a small step behind in performance. The 2010 was down over 100hp and missing lots of chassis mods. And the 2010 was by a fair bit the most fun of the three. And a car I wish I'd kept. Because it wasn't massively powerful, you could drive it at the limit more of the time. And that chassis just worked despite having a rear suspension from a turnip wagon. Also didn't have the crappy electric steering rack that Mustangs got in 2011 (not all electric racks suck, as the CTR proves, but the Mustang ones weren't great and still aren't to this day).

All that to say, the slower one was more fun. Even slower and even more fun was my RX-8. Certainly the best handling car I've ever owned, and again a car you could explore the limits of regularly. CTR has that same light, nimble feel of the RX-8, while driving the wrong wheels but not having to deal with 15mpg and engine replacements every 40-50k miles. I do miss the concussive explosions in the exhaust and flames shooting out of the exhaust when you drove it hard, but it's tough to have it all and it is nice to have a bit more power. The CTR is indeed the 'right' amount of speed too. Something around 10 lbs/hp seems to be the sweet spot where you can actually use all of the power without going directly to jail, but it's still plenty quick enough to be entertaining. Combine that with actual feel in the steering, chassis and brakes, light weight, which there really is no substitute for, and a manual gearbox which there is absolutely no substitute for, and the CTR is pretty compelling. My only reason to upgrade to an FL5 is I'd like the nicer interior and I'm going to guess Honda worked on thermal management for this version. If it overheats (and by that I mean it gets hot on warm days and pulls a ton of power, particularly on track) just as easily as mine does, I may not bother upgrading. But fingers crossed they sorted that out at least part of the way.

 

[Bambzolbment]

I used to have a VW R, 2021 and it was a Dyson.

Yes I didn't say it was just a vaccum. It was an Incredible vaccum, functionally fast and sounded like one too. But had no soul.

My 22 Civic Si is more fun than the golf R, the shifter is a joy, sure it's slower but it feels better. it has arguably more authentic sounds, and I love the steering a lot. I think the CTR will be in extension, probably one of the best cars this side down of buying a manual Porsche.

I agree the AWD and FWD thing is much more complex than people understand, most cars are a combination and depending on driving, roads, tires, PC onboard the car, driver habits-- you could have just as much fun.

 

[darrvao777]

yes

i sold my 2019 CTR for a 2015 BMW M4

there are definitely things i appreciate more about the bmw but all in all, i miss the Type R. it's lighter, it felt more "fun", i like the notion of not driving a luxury brand vehicle (i know i shouldn't care but i hear the comments at work), etc

cannot wait to jump back into the FL5 even if it means paying a markup

 

[Toprarnen]

yes

i sold my 2019 CTR for a 2015 BMW M4

there are definitely things i appreciate more about the bmw but all in all, i miss the Type R. it's lighter, it felt more "fun", i like the notion of not driving a luxury brand vehicle (i know i shouldn't care but i hear the comments at work), etc

cannot wait to jump back into the FL5 even if it means paying a markup

Does yours have heated/ventilated seats, sunroof, etc. and do you think you'll miss them?

 

[Bambzolbment]

My journey so far, Rx8 was easily waaay more fun than my 21 Golf R, at like 1/8 the price. It died on me so I had no choice. Can't wait for Fl5, hoping that my dealer pulls through as he's promising.

(all manual ftw!)
2022 Civic Si
2014 BMW M235i
2021 golf R
2005 Rx8
1998 Civic Si

 

[darrvao777]

Does yours have heated/ventilated seats, sunroof, etc. and do you think you'll miss them?

i have heated seats but i live in the deep south and use them maybe once a year

i have the carbon fiber roof and prefer not to have a sunroof anyway

in the f82, i do like the speakers and infotainment system more than the fk8

the AC is much better than in the fk8

but in terms of fun factor , i think i’m looking forward to the transition to the FL5

it was nice to step into a luxury car for a short bit but ready to head back to honda

 

[thecaper]

I used to have a VW R, 2021 and it was a Dyson.

Yes I didn't say it was just a vaccum. It was an Incredible vaccum, functionally fast and sounded like one too. But had no soul.

My 22 Civic Si is more fun than the golf R, the shifter is a joy, sure it's slower but it feels better. it has arguably more authentic sounds, and I love the steering a lot. I think the CTR will be in extension, probably one of the best cars this side down of buying a manual Porsche.

I agree the AWD and FWD thing is much more complex than people understand, most cars are a combination and depending on driving, roads, tires, PC onboard the car, driver habits-- you could have just as much fun.

Wow I totally know what you mean about the Golf R having no soul. I currently have a 2022 Golf R (6 speed) and I sold a 2021 FK8 to drive the Golf. I was blessed to somehow pay only MSRP for both vehicles. Needless to say, I cannot wait to sell the Golf and get back in the new FL5! Small “luxuries” will never ever beat fun factor!

 

[NillyVanilly]

I used to have a VW R, 2021 and it was a Dyson.

Yes I didn't say it was just a vaccum. It was an Incredible vaccum, functionally fast and sounded like one too. But had no soul.

My 22 Civic Si is more fun than the golf R, the shifter is a joy, sure it's slower but it feels better. it has arguably more authentic sounds, and I love the steering a lot. I think the CTR will be in extension, probably one of the best cars this side down of buying a manual Porsche.

I agree the AWD and FWD thing is much more complex than people understand, most cars are a combination and depending on driving, roads, tires, PC onboard the car, driver habits-- you could have just as much fun.

I had a 2015 GTi and felt the same way. Had it tuned making tons of power but it was soul-less. Fast and boring all at once. Hated the clutch feel(or lack there of), hated the shifter feel, but great commuter and highway vehicle and great bang for buck. I now have a Miata and a Supra and find myself torn about which to drive on a nice day. I feel bad when the Supra sits while i drive an

Wow I totally know what you mean about the Golf R having no soul. I currently have a 2022 Golf R (6 speed) and I sold a 2021 FK8 to drive the Golf. I was blessed to somehow pay only MSRP for both vehicles. Needless to say, I cannot wait to sell the Golf and get back in the new FL5! Small “luxuries” will never ever beat fun factor!

Same here. Hated the soul-less-ness of my VW GTi. Even Tuned making lots of power it was just so sterile and boring. Hated the clutch feel, shifter feel, and the numb steering. Great commuter car and highway car though. Definitely more for the person who has never really had a performance car but finally has a little more money to dip their toe into sporty. My current Supra is an effing blast to drive but hard to use more than 25% of it without risking a night in the slammer.

 

[citrus]

Not really downgrading, but the FL5 will be replacing our Abarth 500, which, yes, is objectively worse in just about every way except:

1. The Abarth is about 600 lbs lighter
2. The Abarth wheelbase is much shorter
3. The Abarth sounds absolutely amazing

All that combined makes it very toss-able and keen to rotate, and it's especially fun to drive even at low speeds. The FL5 will no doubt be an infinitely more comfortable and refined experience, which is great, but I wonder if it'll feel as light and lively. I've always been under the impression that short wheelbase is more fun, when it comes to FWD, and I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

Neither my partner and I drive stick, but we've both loved CTRs for a long time and the FL5 is the first CTR that we both agree on, so we'll be figuring it out as we go. Fingers crossed!

Chiming in a little bit on the Evo conversation, since we have an Evo 10, I wonder how the FL5 will feel in comparison. With the new engine revision, FL5 certainly has the leg up on power-to-weight, and not to mention 15 years of development in suspension, rigidity, etc. But I hope the FL5 is just as tactile and visceral to drive. Very excited!

 

[mbaapk]

Not really downgrading, but the FL5 will be replacing our Abarth 500, which, yes, is objectively worse in just about every way except:

1. The Abarth is about 600 lbs lighter
2. The Abarth wheelbase is much shorter
3. The Abarth sounds absolutely amazing

All that combined makes it very toss-able and keen to rotate, and it's especially fun to drive even at low speeds. The FL5 will no doubt be an infinitely more comfortable and refined experience, which is great, but I wonder if it'll feel as light and lively. I've always been under the impression that short wheelbase is more fun, when it comes to FWD, and I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

Neither my partner and I drive stick, but we've both loved CTRs for a long time and the FL5 is the first CTR that we both agree on, so we'll be figuring it out as we go. Fingers crossed!

Chiming in a little bit on the Evo conversation, since we have an Evo 10, I wonder how the FL5 will feel in comparison. With the new engine revision, FL5 certainly has the leg up on power-to-weight, and not to mention 15 years of development in suspension, rigidity, etc. But I hope the FL5 is just as tactile and visceral to drive. Very excited!

The Charlie Sheen car?

 

[citrus]

The Charlie Sheen car?

If that's a reference, I didn't get it.

 

[mbaapk]

If that's a reference, I didn't get it.

It is!

 

[Tickle]

This person is begging for a fight. Pulling up a cold thread and everything.

Who will challenge them?

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