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All of the cars in this class are more or less hopped up rental cars/Ubers, including the FL5. “Confidence” is subjective. I'm pretty sure if we did lead-follow on a wet day, me in a GRC and you in an FL5, I could maintain a pace that would expose to you the less-than-perfect parts of the FL5...

Great. So you know what I’m talking about. Or are you suggesting that the FL5 does better than the GRC in wet weather?

Go drive a GR Corolla in the wet. The FL5 is quite good for FWD, but there are absolutely better tools for the job. Most reviews don’t acknowledge the reality that we all don’t live in Southern California. I almost skipped driving the GRC and Golf R because of the reviews.

I definitely have (significantly) more fun in some cars than others. FL5 is a great car, until you bump up on the limits of the FWD. Then, it leaves you wanting more. Fabulous nice-weather backroads car. You need to spend significantly more to get something sufficiently better for this...

Just talked to him. He gave me some BS excuse why it's actually $5k ADM now. Said you never had a $2k ADM deal on the table.

Great info - thank you.

I conceded and just put a deposit down on an incoming 2024 BMW M2 with 6-speed manual. CTR at MSRP is fabulous value. At almost $60k, not so much. I'll periodically check the market to see whether we're there yet. Best of luck to those still on the hunt.

I'm seeing a growing number of dealers with multiple CTRs on their lot. Supply constraints are clearly easing and cars are sitting as more customers decline paying $10k+ ADM. If you have 30-60 days, I'd wait. My bet is $5k over will be the standard ask well before the end of the year, and MSRP +...

Not sure why people still complain about maintenance costs of new BMWs. They come with comprehensive free maintenance to 3 years/36,000 miles that can affordably be extended to 7 years/100,000 miles. The current crop of M cars are also very reliable. You'll also get loaners - I had a brand new...

These cars are pretty ordinary outside of the twisties. Take it to your favorite curvy backroad before coming to a conclusion.

Congratulations! How did you negotiate them down so much?