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ElpacoSV

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Unfortunately I think Honda is just kind of riding the wave until it starts to switch over to full hybridization/electrification. They're not going to dump tons of money into their current engines and just ride the current tech out for the next 5-6 years. Come time for the 12th gen Honda will have most likely started going electric and hybrid and we will start to possibly see new more interesting, more powerful and efficient gas/electric combinations. But this next generation of Honda's lineup (from civic up to pilot) will probably be mostly all carryover with minor tweaks until they start adding batteries. I do think that turbo+hybrid could have some interesting applications, especially in regards to performance. Sadly it seems, at least for the time being, Honda has put performance/enthusiast oriented products on the back burner focusing more on volume, crossovers, and just holding the current line until bigger changes are implemented.
Sadly? The current type R is a blast to drive and it dominates the completion having more power. I don't see this as an issue at all. The next type R will be more refine and I assume performance wise will be equal to the competition. OFC it will be surpassed but nevertheless it will be a good product and you'll see makups as well.
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RobbJK

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Sadly? The current type R is a blast to drive and it dominates the completion having more power. I don't see this as an issue at all. The next type R will be more refine and I assume performance wise will be equal to the competition. OFC it will be surpassed but nevertheless it will be a good product and you'll see makups as well.
Calm down sparky... I wasn't saying the Type R was going to be a BAD car... it just wasn't going to improve (performance wise) over the 10th gen. Yes, refinement and other things like that will be improved upon and that may matter to some more than others. But in a car like the Type R, enthusiasts care about performance gains gen over gen, especially when the 9th and 10th already had carryover. It'll still be a fantasic car for anyone that doesn't already have one... but it's not really a big incentive for anyone to upgrade from their 10th gen either.
 

ElpacoSV

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Calm down sparky... I wasn't saying the Type R was going to be a BAD car... it just wasn't going to improve (performance wise) over the 10th gen. Yes, refinement and other things like that will be improved upon and that may matter to some more than others. But in a car like the Type R, enthusiasts care about performance gains gen over gen, especially when the 9th and 10th already had carryover. It'll still be a fantasic car for anyone that doesn't already have one... but it's not really a big incentive for anyone to upgrade from their 10th gen either.
Don't be too sensitive my friend! I simply state that some people will change to the new car just for the fun of having the new thing. Life is like that. Honda does only small improvements on successful products. Look at their history cars ;-)
 

VarmintCong

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Would love if they can just improve the sound of the engine and exhaust. But maybe that won’t be cheap. If the car gains 100 lbs, the same power won’t be enough.
 

RobbJK

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Don't be too sensitive my friend! I simply state that some people will change to the new car just for the fun of having the new thing. Life is like that. Honda does only small improvements on successful products. Look at their history cars ;-)
I can completely understand upgrading for the sake of upgrading too! I've had MANY civics. 2 each of the 8th, 9th, and 10th gens (pre and post refreshes of each). So I totally get it. And the new styling willing surely appeal to some more than the 10th as well.

My original post was really just saying that we probably won't see any massive performance improvements on any honda products as they gear up for their electrification push in the next 5-6 years. Lots of small tweaks and carryover until they begin adding hybrid motors and going full electric, then we will see BIG changes (hopefully in a good way).
 


ElpacoSV

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I can completely understand upgrading for the sake of upgrading too! I've had MANY civics. 2 each of the 8th, 9th, and 10th gens (pre and post refreshes of each). So I totally get it. And the new styling willing surely appeal to some more than the 10th as well.

My original post was really just saying that we probably won't see any massive performance improvements on any honda products as they gear up for their electrification push in the next 5-6 years. Lots of small tweaks and carryover until they begin adding hybrid motors and going full electric, then we will see BIG changes (hopefully in a good way).
I totally agree with you!
 

TheCanadian

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11 th gen will for sure be a riot like my 10th type r I have no doubt.
I’m guessing 12th will have a electrified rear axle which will be a game changer
 

Adil

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Fix the A/C issue. 3 Rear seats. Allow more detail on suspension/exhaust settings( like i30N) and I will definitely want one!
 

davemarco

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I'm sure the 11th gen R will be mechanically just as capable as the 10th. I think that those of us that have enjoyed 10th gens for the past 5 years were just hoping that the next generation would be superior. Like how the 991 GT3 was an amazing car, but now the 992 GT3 has a completely new double-wishbone front suspension that takes it to a whole new level.

There's a lot of amazing offerings coming from Honda's competitors this gen, so hopefully Honda doesn't just rest on its laurels.
 

ElpacoSV

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I'm sure the 11th gen R will be mechanically just as capable as the 10th. I think that those of us that have enjoyed 10th gens for the past 5 years were just hoping that the next generation would be superior. Like how the 991 GT3 was an amazing car, but now the 992 GT3 has a completely new double-wishbone front suspension that takes it to a whole new level.

There's a lot of amazing offerings coming from Honda's competitors this gen, so hopefully Honda doesn't just rest on its laurels.
I understand your point BUT the 992 GT3 has ALOT of carryover* from last model GT3. The addition of the double wishbone on a 911 is a first from Porsche history*. Think about it...a first!

The 11th gen civic is an upgrade from the 10th gen not a complete new platform and this is interesting to me. I have a 10th gen And as much as I love it, I'm eager to see if they fix the plethora of issues the 10th type R has. We all know them. I don't expect huge power increase. Is not the Honda way to have big bumps in power from each generation.

But, as they listen about the volume knob, I hope they listen about the heating issues on the Type R and the issues on the gearbox. Crossing fingers!

*Source: https://www.carbibles.com/the-signi...miatas-and-civics-had-before-the-911-gt3/?amp
 
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VarmintCong

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I'm sure the 11th gen R will be mechanically just as capable as the 10th. I think that those of us that have enjoyed 10th gens for the past 5 years were just hoping that the next generation would be superior. Like how the 991 GT3 was an amazing car, but now the 992 GT3 has a completely new double-wishbone front suspension that takes it to a whole new level.

There's a lot of amazing offerings coming from Honda's competitors this gen, so hopefully Honda doesn't just rest on its laurels.
Well, the new GT3 is $27k more than the old one, I don't think the new Type R will be 15% more expensive.
 

davemarco

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Well, the new GT3 is $27k more than the old one, I don't think the new Type R will be 15% more expensive.
Granted. Maybe a better example would be the Mk 7 Golf R and the Mk8. The Mk8 is a significant improvement in both engine and power train capability, as befitting a completely new model. So far, the only known changes to the 11th are in the interior styling, which is a bit weak for a completely new model.

As an aside, if they end up using the K20C1 again, then it's unlikely that there will be any improvements to the trans (gear grinds have been a K20 thing for a long time). There's nothing at all wrong with the current gen Type R (I enjoy mine), but after 5 years (7 if you count the closely related FK2), Honda needs to step things up or risk falling behind.
 

ElpacoSV

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Granted. Maybe a better example would be the Mk 7 Golf R and the Mk8. The Mk8 is a significant improvement in both engine and power train capability, as befitting a completely new model. So far, the only known changes to the 11th are in the interior styling, which is a bit weak for a completely new model.

As an aside, if they end up using the K20C1 again, then it's unlikely that there will be any improvements to the trans (gear grinds have been a K20 thing for a long time). There's nothing at all wrong with the current gen Type R (I enjoy mine), but after 5 years (7 if you count the closely related FK2), Honda needs to step things up or risk falling behind.
You will be disappointed then! Honda releases the Current Civic Platform with the 10gen. Usually, they keep it for 2-3 gens so...the 11 gen is based on the 10gen platform. Only the outer shell is changed with minimal improvements on the platform (cost savings).
 

Jabberwocker

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You will be disappointed then! Honda releases the Current Civic Platform with the 10gen. Usually, they keep it for 2-3 gens so...the 11 gen is based on the 10gen platform. Only the outer shell is changed with minimal improvements on the platform (cost savings).
So is the GTI not is the same way? It has been using and continues to use the MQB platform since the 7th gen in 2012 and we see noticible gains coming from 7.5 going to the 8th. The only reason I honestly believe we haven't seen anything about the SI/R is because Honda is clearing the R stock out. Especially the LE.
 

davemarco

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Speaking as someone with a fully modded, tuned Type R: the current platform can't be pushed too much farther while still maintaining the reliability and stability that Honda is targeting. Using anything short of Cup 2's, I can spin my tires in 2nd through 4th, and I've most certainly introduced a minor element of torque steer with all the extra twist. A SH-AWD platform just makes sense, even if it's still paired with the same K20C1. That said, I think that the new V6 Turbo from the TLX Type S makes sense as an inclusion on the new R. Honda's unit cost must be pretty high on it right now, since it's only used in one low-volume model. Honda began sticking modified versions of the K20C1 in many different high volume cars and it really brought the unit cost of that engine down. It stands to reason that they could do the same with the V6 Turbo.

Plus it'd sound amazing. The K20C1 is capable of a lot of things, but sounding great is not one of them.
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