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Steve182022

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Anyone know If you can see Oil Temps on these newer civics or will this be feature on SI? I always thought this was huge oversight with 10th gen. On GTI, WRX or most competition you can easily see the temps to know when it's in safe Operation temps wise. You can't just go off coolant or engine temps. Which is all 10th gen gives you, basically you have no idea.
Looks like the manual transmission sedan (I.e. the Si) has an engine coolant temperature gauge but I don’t see anything for oil temperature
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Brandon25

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Looks like the manual transmission sedan (I.e. the Si) has an engine coolant temperature gauge but I don’t see anything for oil temperature
Screenshot_20211021-222859_Adobe Acrobat.jpg
Pretty much same then. No way of knowing for sure, oil takes long heat up. So once coolant is up to temp you need wait a min or little longer...
 

zx2down

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They'd still offer it if sold. Reality is that market for a family sedan with manuals really doesn't exist.
Fallacy. The market was forced to shrink.

It's cheaper for companies to make, road test and crash test just 1 design. This is a reason there is no manual Charger. It's a widespread practice for automakers to produce less manuals for the sales lots, which means people either have to spend more time shopping to find one, or order one, which means a multiple month wait. People, more so the impatient American, does NOT want to do this and want the car now. This inherently drives up Auto sales vs Manual. In turn they use those numbers as reason to cut back on manual production or drop manual all together. Saving costs. With more of a push towards Green and Auto's being better on MPG now having to make a manual hurts their fleets average MPG.
 

Micah

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Anyone know If you can see Oil Temps on these newer civics or will this be feature on SI? I always thought this was huge oversight with 10th gen. On GTI, WRX or most competition you can easily see the temps to know when it's in safe Operation temps wise. You can't just go off coolant or engine temps. Which is all 10th gen gives you, basically you have no idea.
It's not track ready for sure, and that was never it's intended purpose. However, you could consider adding an oil cooler and/or a plate style adapter that goes in between the oil filter which would let you add sensors for oil pressure and oil temp.

https://www.perrin.com/shop/interior-gauges/oil-temp-pressure-adapter

Adding a standalone gauge for monitoring would be easy. If you want to integrate that into the ECU reported values, probably looking at a standalone such as motec. Anything is possible if you're willing to put time and money into it.
 

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Fallacy. The market was forced to shrink.

It's cheaper for companies to make, road test and crash test just 1 design. This is a reason there is no manual Charger. It's a widespread practice for automakers to produce less manuals for the sales lots, which means people either have to spend more time shopping to find one, or order one, which means a multiple month wait. People, more so the impatient American, does NOT want to do this and want the car now. This inherently drives up Auto sales vs Manual. In turn they use those numbers as reason to cut back on manual production or drop manual all together. Saving costs. With more of a push towards Green and Auto's being better on MPG now having to make a manual hurts their fleets average MPG.

exactly, if there was profit to be made they will make it. Thats how the market works, if something sells and makes money they will make more of it like SUV's. Reality is less and less people want manuals in this congestested society.
 


zx2down

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exactly, if there was profit to be made they will make it. Thats how the market works, if something sells and makes money they will make more of it like SUV's. Reality is less and less people want manuals in this congestested society.
It's not that there is no profit, it's not enough for them to want to spend the investment. Higher MPG ratings allows makers to make fuel wasters. A parge part of why the Mach-E, Lightning 42MPG Maverick exist is to raise the average MPG of Ford's fleet enough to allow the GT500 to avoid penalties.

I would daily drive NYC and DC traffic in a manual for years. At 0 point was it an issue. I sit in traffic every day NOW with a manual. It's NOT an issue. The large bulk of people I see complaining about it are also the ones putting in heavy race clutches in a daily driven 200-300HP car or are old people remembering how heavy a clutch was in the 60's 70's or 80's and are telling younger generations it sucks. My clutch is crazy light and even lighter once I changed out the clutch spring.
 

Boostlag

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exactly there is no profit, no business case. Its a 4door family car not a halo super car to bring people in to the show room. There is a reason why they continue to make the Miata in manual, they just sell more of them. Also more buyers opt for the manuals in the Golf R and 911 GT3 in the US so specifically makes a manual for the US model not in europe.
 

zx2down

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exactly there is no profit, no business case. Its a 4door family car not a halo super car to bring people in to the show room. There is a reason why they continue to make the Miata in manual, they just sell more of them. Also more buyers opt for the manuals in the Golf R and 911 GT3 in the US so specifically makes a manual for the US model not in europe.
Let me re-iterate my FIRST sentence.
It's not that there is no profit, it's not enough for them to want to spend the investment.
 

Boostlag

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Let me re-iterate my FIRST sentence.
It's not that there is no profit, it's not enough for them to want to spend the investment.
So you're telling me car makes money for the company but they don't want to keep making a car that they already spent hundreds of millions on EPA federalizing.

"Extrapolating from the Accord's 267,567 units sold in 2019, only around 2500–5000 of those were sold with stick-shifts—apparently not enough for Honda to justify the business case. ".
 
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KIKUTWO

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And even with the rev matching in place, i'd still disable it since i'm already accustomed to doing it on my own.
Agree, is this for people who don't know how to really drive stick?
 


zx2down

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So you're telling me car makes money for the company but they don't want to keep making a car that they already spent hundreds of millions on EPA federalizing.

"Extrapolating from the Accord's 267,567 units sold in 2019, only around 2500–5000 of those were sold with stick-shifts—apparently not enough for Honda to justify the business case. ".

You don't seem to get how business works. Ford could also make a manual GT500 or convertible GT500 and it would sell. But to them it's NOT worth investing the time and testing in them as they would rather put their engineers into things that will/can have future, larger, pay offs. Are you going to have a person work on a project that makes you 5 million now? or 20-30 million in 3-4 years? Which do you think Investors will like more?

Look at coupes. No more Civic Coupes doesn't mean that people don't want coupes. It means its cheaper for OEM's to just not make them, and force people into a sedan or hatch that shares more parts and is cheaper to produce. Yesterday my brother was talking to an old lady that owned a 10th gen Civic coupe, and now that they are not being made anymore, she stated she was thinking about moving to a Mustang. No more Ford cars doesn't mean people DIDNT want cars, it means the company doesn't see them as where they can make the MOST money.

In 2017 all Fords cars were about 3yrs into a refresh with 5yr average cycle. It then in 2018 announced it was killing all cars despite all of them having strong sales. So CLEARLY just making profit is not enough reason to have their teams work on refreshes and saw it as a better POTENTIAL return to have them work on the Maverick, Bronco and other SUV teams. They saw STRONGER profit potential in another area and shifted their focus over there.

Your sales numbers also do not mean anything without knowing how many manuals were made, or how easy it was to acquire a manual. I already explained how makers manipulate those numbers into their favor to justify cutting an option. If you can't find a manual in your area with the options you want, what do you think you're going to do? Thats right, buy an auto and deal with it. What if Honda only pre-loaded heated seats in to say 15% of the cars it sends to dealers' lots? That would mean only 15% of Civics sold had heated seats, so why would they make more? Makes it easy on paper to justify cost cutting the option. It doesn't mean people don't WANT heated seats, just that they couldn't FIND a car with heated seats so got one without it.
 

zx2down

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Agree, is this for people who don't know how to really drive stick?
It makes it one less thing to worry about. I've been driving manual for 20yrs. I love rev-matching in daily driving traffic.

Its cruise control for people that don't really know how to drive?
 

Jimi

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Agree, is this for people who don't know how to really drive stick?

There is nothing wrong with having rev matching on a car. Some people enjoy it, like me. I know how to heel toe however doing it every single shift every single time I drive the car isn’t “fun”.
You can always turn it off if you don’t want it.
Be grateful Honda still offers a manual period.
 

Steve182022

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You don't seem to get how business works. Ford could also make a manual GT500 or convertible GT500 and it would sell. But to them it's NOT worth investing the time and testing in them as they would rather put their engineers into things that will/can have future, larger, pay offs. Are you going to have a person work on a project that makes you 5 million now? or 20-30 million in 3-4 years? Which do you think Investors will like more?

Look at coupes. No more Civic Coupes doesn't mean that people don't want coupes. It means its cheaper for OEM's to just not make them, and force people into a sedan or hatch that shares more parts and is cheaper to produce. Yesterday my brother was talking to an old lady that owned a 10th gen Civic coupe, and now that they are not being made anymore, she stated she was thinking about moving to a Mustang. No more Ford cars doesn't mean people DIDNT want cars, it means the company doesn't see them as where they can make the MOST money.

In 2017 all Fords cars were about 3yrs into a refresh with 5yr average cycle. It then in 2018 announced it was killing all cars despite all of them having strong sales. So CLEARLY just making profit is not enough reason to have their teams work on refreshes and saw it as a better POTENTIAL return to have them work on the Maverick, Bronco and other SUV teams. They saw STRONGER profit potential in another area and shifted their focus over there.

Your sales numbers also do not mean anything without knowing how many manuals were made, or how easy it was to acquire a manual. I already explained how makers manipulate those numbers into their favor to justify cutting an option. If you can't find a manual in your area with the options you want, what do you think you're going to do? Thats right, buy an auto and deal with it. What if Honda only pre-loaded heated seats in to say 15% of the cars it sends to dealers' lots? That would mean only 15% of Civics sold had heated seats, so why would they make more? Makes it easy on paper to justify cost cutting the option. It doesn't mean people don't WANT heated seats, just that they couldn't FIND a car with heated seats so got one without it.
The HELL I will buy an automatic when I want a manual! I waited 2 months to get my 2018 Civic coupe with a manual and the same with my 2020 Civic sedan with a manual. My Honda salesman who I've worked with since 2014 ordered exactly what I wanted. And I'm going to do the same thing when I order my 2022 Sport hatchback. Hats off to Honda for giving me what I want. But I can't blame dealers for not stocking low volume sellers.
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