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ebhaynz

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The HELL I will buy an automatic when I want a manual! I waited 2 months to get my 2018 Civic coupe with a manual and the same with my 2020 Civic sedan with a manual. My Honda salesman who I've worked with since 2014 ordered exactly what I wanted. And I'm going to do the same thing when I order my 2022 Sport hatchback. Hats off to Honda for giving me what I want. But I can't blame dealers for not stocking low volume sellers.
Fu¢k yeah!

The only way they'll stop me from driving a stick is when they pry my cold, dead, left foot off my M&M pedal!
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danfg2

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I don’t mind the 5hp decrease since it spools 300rpm earlier and hangs on for until 6K rpm rather than spooling a tiny bit later and falling on its face at 5500rpm like the x gen si. I get why people are mad though. 220whp would have been nice. Overall the suspension changes and powertrain changes are really good imo.
It only spools earlier cause they are using the twin scroll from the 10th gen accord.
 


danfg2

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Yeah I was hoping they would not stay with the black wheels. They only look ok with certain colors. I much prefer the look of the wheels from the 17-19 Si.
I need those 11th gen Si wheels on my 10th gen. Also the 17-19 Si wheels are hideous. I instantly got rid of them for the 2020 Si Wheels.
 

zx2down

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The HELL I will buy an automatic when I want a manual! I waited 2 months to get my 2018 Civic coupe with a manual and the same with my 2020 Civic sedan with a manual. My Honda salesman who I've worked with since 2014 ordered exactly what I wanted. And I'm going to do the same thing when I order my 2022 Sport hatchback. Hats off to Honda for giving me what I want. But I can't blame dealers for not stocking low volume sellers.
The average person also doesn't even know you CAN custom order a car. Hence why dealers can get away with just loading lots of autos and saying "we don't have any" when asked about a manual. Nor does the average person want to wait on an ordered car. As I said, they creates the lower volume of the option. They push the market towards auto beacuse it simplifies the selection and makes it easier to just say "ok pick a color and a package, DONE." Similar reason that engine options have dwindled. It's not that people dont WANT options, it's that companies know that its cheaper for them to have less options and enough people wont CARE that the options have grown limited so they get away with it. It's how the Mustang has gone from 9 engines down to 3.

Great example. 2022 Civic hatch, cant get the top end trim in MANUAL and BLUE. There is NO logical reason for that, they just know that the aveage person when given the option of the Cool Looking Car or the more booring looking, but possibly FUN car, the average Americn will pick appearances first. They would rather drive an automatic in a cool color, than a manual in a drab one. Again, lowering the manual take-rate.
 
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Steve182022

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The average person also doesn't even know you CAN custom order a car. Hence why dealers can get away with just loading lots of autos and saying "we don't have any" when asked about a manual. Nor does the average person want to wait on an ordered car. As I said, they creates the lower volume of the option. They push the market towards auto beacuse it simplifies the selection and makes it easier to just say "ok pick a color and a package, DONE." Similar reason that engine options have dwindled. It's not that people dont WANT options, it's that companies know that its cheaper for them to have less options and enough people wont CARE that the options have grown limited so they get away with it. It's how the Mustang has gone from 9 engines down to 3.

Great example. 2022 Civic hatch, cant get the top end trim in MANUAL and BLUE. There is NO logical reason for that, they just know that the aveage person when given the option of the Cool Looking Car or the more booring looking, but possibly FUN car, the average Americn will pick appearances first. They would rather drive an automatic in a cool color, than a manual in a drab one. Again, lowering the manual take-rate.
The "average person" in the US doesn't want or even know how to drive a manual transmission. It's strictly a niche market. But at least Honda still makes them available. I was very surprised they offered the stick with both engines in the Civic Hatchback. Disappointing about color choices but better than nothing. Now it's time for enthusiasts to step up and order and buy them.
 

MorrisGray

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They'd still offer it if sold. Reality is that market for a family sedan with manuals really doesn't exist.
I wanted to buy one and could not find one locally anywhere in my area near Chattanooga, TN. in 2020 and when Covid started , I quit looking. You can rarely find any car within 100 miles that has a manual transmission in it, at least a car that interest me. I did find an SI or two locally but they sold very quickly. How is it that all of the CTR and SI models sell so good with manuals but so many people claim that manuals don't sell? Sure, if a dealer is marking them up over MSRP, then they may not sell. Sure, if you are talking a base Corolla with manual or a Nissan base model anything with a manual, it may not sell. But those cars are not exciting to drive at all. And if the local dealers don't have a car you want with the available manual, likely not going to sell them either. If dealers can't trade for a manual you want, you are out of luck because it seems that dealers can not order you a car, unless you want a Mustang GT. Ford dealers will order you one.
 

MorrisGray

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zx2down >>> I have not had a dealer like Honda or Toyota offer to order what I wanted, nor Hyundai. They just tell me they don't know when they will get one in or that they expect one next month maybe. BMW offered to order me a 230i two door coupe with a manual but without being able to drive one first, I didn't want to go though that and worry with getting my deposit back. And I decided against buying a BMW at all. It is different if a dealer has a manual that you can drive for evaluation and then order in a different color or options that you want. Ford and Dodge also offered but they didn't have a manual on the lot for me to test drive first. And I am not sure that I would have bought either the Mustang GT or the Challenger anyway. I really wanted another Mazda3 sedan with a manual. I still like the 2006 model I bought new with a manual and I am still driving it now. I just want a new car to replace it. Just not sure I want the new Mazda3 Premium Hatchback at $29k which is the only manual transmission offering from Mazda now. The Mazda3 does have a 186 hp naturally aspirated motor, which I do favor. And it runs on regular gas. I am just not sure I can live with the Mazda hatchback, the back seat is tight, and not near as roomy as a Civic hatch, which the Civic hatch also looks better to me. Anyway, I think more people would buy a manual transmission, if they were available everyday on the dealer lot to see and drive. Most people today want whatever they are looking at today, and therefor will take an automatic instead. And this whole process has developed into parent's not teaching their children to drive a manual transmission. They pass down their automatics and get them a new automatic the same day or just go buy their kids a new automatic.
 


charleswrivers

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I remember when Chevy dropped the SSs by 25% of MSRP that final year, I was interested in buying one in manual. There wasn’t one so far as I could tell w/in 400 miles for me to see. Piles of manuals. The fact it was a 4 door manual sedan with a LS3 was the whole draw… suspension was good too, albeit in a plain looking package.

There is savings to be had with parts/model downsizing. Manuals… coupes… it’s all the same. Even if a vocal minority wants them, they save on R&D, assembly line changes, parts stocking, training… there’s so much that goes into it to say nothing about the fleet MPG penalties that most manuals incur on modern CVTs or automatics with wide ratios, I’m not surprised it’s the death knell. This coming from someone who hasn’t been without a manual car for my entire driving life other than a few couple-year dry spells. I’ll keep enjoying them while they last and probably just keep buying/having old cars.
 

arpypat

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Arpan
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zx2down >>> I have not had a dealer like Honda or Toyota offer to order what I wanted, nor Hyundai. They just tell me they don't know when they will get one in or that they expect one next month maybe. BMW offered to order me a 230i two door coupe with a manual but without being able to drive one first, I didn't want to go though that and worry with getting my deposit back. And I decided against buying a BMW at all. It is different if a dealer has a manual that you can drive for evaluation and then order in a different color or options that you want. Ford and Dodge also offered but they didn't have a manual on the lot for me to test drive first. And I am not sure that I would have bought either the Mustang GT or the Challenger anyway. I really wanted another Mazda3 sedan with a manual. I still like the 2006 model I bought new with a manual and I am still driving it now. I just want a new car to replace it. Just not sure I want the new Mazda3 Premium Hatchback at $29k which is the only manual transmission offering from Mazda now. The Mazda3 does have a 186 hp naturally aspirated motor, which I do favor. And it runs on regular gas. I am just not sure I can live with the Mazda hatchback, the back seat is tight, and not near as roomy as a Civic hatch, which the Civic hatch also looks better to me. Anyway, I think more people would buy a manual transmission, if they were available everyday on the dealer lot to see and drive. Most people today want whatever they are looking at today, and therefor will take an automatic instead. And this whole process has developed into parent's not teaching their children to drive a manual transmission. They pass down their automatics and get them a new automatic the same day or just go buy their kids a new automatic.
You might be happy with a 2022 Civic Hatchback Sport 2.0 6mt. I kind of want to buy one of these in a few years and just keep it in a garage for 20 years lol
 

zx2down

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The "average person" in the US doesn't want or even know how to drive a manual transmission. It's strictly a niche market. But at least Honda still makes them available. I was very surprised they offered the stick with both engines in the Civic Hatchback. Disappointing about color choices but better than nothing. Now it's time for enthusiasts to step up and order and buy them.
Yes it is NOW. That's due the marketing practices I've mentioned above and the fact we have cheap gas. A large reason that the UK has so many manual drivers is because gas costs so much it's been an incentive to learn manual. Until recently where autos have grown more efficient.
 

zx2down

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I remember when Chevy dropped the SSs by 25% of MSRP that final year, I was interested in buying one in manual. There wasn’t one so far as I could tell w/in 400 miles for me to see. Piles of manuals. The fact it was a 4 door manual sedan with a LS3 was the whole draw… suspension was good too, albeit in a plain looking package.

There is savings to be had with parts/model downsizing. Manuals… coupes… it’s all the same. Even if a vocal minority wants them, they save on R&D, assembly line changes, parts stocking, training… there’s so much that goes into it to say nothing about the fleet MPG penalties that most manuals incur on modern CVTs or automatics with wide ratios, I’m not surprised it’s the death knell. This coming from someone who hasn’t been without a manual car for my entire driving life other than a few couple-year dry spells. I’ll keep enjoying them while they last and probably just keep buying/having old cars.
I wanted one also. My buddy has one, great car. I was looking to test drive a green manual after work but by the time I got out of work the car was sold. None of the others in the area were manual so I wasn't interested. It's what lead me to getting a Mustang since the Camaro, while tempting, has such poor visibility.
 

MorrisGray

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So you're telling me car makes money for the company but they don't want to keep making a car that they already spent hundreds of millions on EPA federalizing.

"Extrapolating from the Accord's 267,567 units sold in 2019, only around 2500–5000 of those were sold with stick-shifts—apparently not enough for Honda to justify the business case. ".
How many of the Accord's with a manual did not sell? They were all purchased. None left to buy. I could not find one locally as no dealers had one available. If they are not made available to purchase, they will not sell. If you want a beer and your favorite or preferred brand is not available, and if it is not convenient to go somewhere else to get it, are you going to just do without?
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