All New 2023 Civic Type R Sets New Suzuka Circuit Lap Record! 🏁

[mbaapk]

So basically we like/dislike these cars for very different reasons. Sounds like I love everything you hate about the R.

I love the fact that the CTR makes me work harder. Its limits are reached quickly, which is part of the appeal. I don’t even have to drive fast or wind it out in order to feel like I’m sprinting. In the M2C, I have to be doing triple digits, and looking at serious jail time to have fun. That’s exactly what I miss about cars: the feeling of driving slower cars fast.

The thing I can’t stand about M2’s is the power surge at low revs. There is this sudden “spike” in the powerband, which is when you hit that long, wide torque “plateau” (around 3000RPM). It’s like a “flat zone” range where power is constant as revs rise due to falling torque. That’s what I generally experience going to redline with the S55. In this “flat zone”, there’s a sensation that there’s little reward for continually revving out and you almost feel like short-shifting. Then again, the OG M2 experience is slightly different.

I can’t enjoy an M2 unless I drive it fast, very fast. Driving it slow just sucks. To me, it’s uneventful and far less engaging at lower speeds than the R. And let’s face it, 90% of all driving is done at lower speeds, but I suppose it depends where you live.

As for the sound, the OG M2 does sound good to me. Definitely better than the Type R and M2C, which both sound muted. Too much fake noise being pumped into the cabin anyway, but that’s the case with every performance car nowadays.

Good post. Id only add that if sound is an issue to buy an aftermarket exhausT. Although im thinking 11gen will solve for this shortcoming.

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[avalanche011]

More electronics = more things to go wrong.

I had a sunroof on prior cars and never again. Long term, things always break. If the seals don’t give out and it doesn’t develop a leak, then the motor and other moveable parts start to break down.

I personally don’t think any of these parts have a place on a performance focused car.

Once you start adding heated seats, heads up display, heated steering wheel, sunroof, power seats, leather trim/upholstery, high end sound systems with subs and extra speakers, cameras, safety systems, and other fancy-shmancy crap, you slowly turn into a BMW. And that’s not a complement because they’ve all gotten heavy af over the years for exactly this reason. New M3 starts a tad under 3,900 lbs and approaches 4,000 lbs loaded. That is insane.

CTR already removed the mechanical e-brake. I’m not fond of this, but I’ll give it a pass.

That is why slick top BMWs are most sought after due to reduce complexity and head room, lower CG and weight reduction. Its a shame they are so hard to come by because the average buyer wants all these unnecessary features in their performance cars.

 

[Boostlag]

I dont care for sunroofs but damn I'll never buy a car that doesn't have heated seats. I've been spoiled. I also love parking sensors front, sides and back on my GTI but I guess I could live with out those.

 

[Rhorn]

I went from my 2018 FK8 to a 2020 BMW M340i with the new gen B58 engine. I absolutely loved my Type R but just as IQBad stated the FWD in the FK8 was useless in the first half of the gears(I was tuned as well). My M340 is a totally different beast in terms of power delivery but i must admit a Type-R is fun as hell. Personally one of the reasons i got away from the type r was i missed the luxury's of a sunroof, heated seats and a decent sound system. If the new Type-R would have a version with these features i would be much more interested. Currently waiting delivery of my 2022 Si (canadian version) which has a ton of features. Due to the inflation of everything i have decided to get back into Honda reliability and low maintenance cost compared to BMW and i am really looking forward to my new Si but will for sure keep tabs of the Type-R Features.

Yeah I honestly did a lot of thinking and the no sunroof and heated seats are definitely 2 pretty big cons for me. I know that its a sports car and some guys will argue but I do like the creature comforts as I have Raynauds Disease and need the warmth. I ensured that my GT350 had heated seats, I liked the recaro race seats but you couldn't get any heating/cooling unless you got the standard leather seats. I am new to Florida and I can overlook the heated seats because of the heat, but I will miss having a sunroof not going to lie about that.

Later down the line I can see myself trading in the CTR for the Integra Type S or a Type R for the performance in addition to the nice extra luxuries if I ever want something a bit more subtle. The other hatchbacks/liftbacks on the market I am not a fan of. Would be nice if Honda at least offered heated seats as an option but I understand their reasoning

 

[mbaapk]

Well the Civic is really for commuting and daily driving. I understand sunroof will decrease performance so I agree with that. But how much performance would heated seats really decrease? It probably adds no more than 5lbs to the overall weight!

Thats about added cost and not performance. The new one will probably be 1-2k more as it is. With tax, markup and full body ppf id be looking at $54k. If no heated seats means keeping the starting price lower - im all for it.

 

[davemarco]

I used to have a FK8,but I switched to an M2 (normal, not a comp) and I have to say that overall the M2 is a better car. The FK8 has some serious flaws that makes it really annoying:

1. FWD just limits acceleration grip in all everyday situations. The car never felt fast to me because in normal speeds (up to like 4:th gear) it just spins up it wheels! (Mine was tuned) The M2 with is RWD just hooks up and you can make quick accelerations from dead stops or to pass cars without loosing grip.

2. The engine is very laggy, if you are in 2:nd gear at like 3000rpm and floor the pedal, you don’t even get max boost until you run out of revs and have to shift, and then it starts all over again. This engine needs a DSG toget rid of all the lag.

3. The sound the engine makes is just bad, there is no joy in listening to it. On the m2 just hearing the engine rev match as you shift down is amazing!

Now the new CTR looks much better than the FK8 that is positive, and it comes with very wide tires stock, good for track! I am just hoping that they fixed at least the engine sound, this would make the car appeal more to me, but I don’t see myself swapping out an m2 for this right now at least.

Based on the Suzuka video, I don't think that they've improved the sound at all. What I heard sounded very similar to the fake engine noise on the 2020+ FK8.

I really don't understand it - every other manufacturer seems capable of making a good sounding engine/exhaust but Honda. Even with my REMUS exhaust, my Type R is decidedly meh on sound.

 

[007]

I really don't understand it - every other manufacturer seems capable of making a good sounding engine/exhaust but Honda. Even with my REMUS exhaust, my Type R is decidedly meh on sound.

Well, almost every car nowadays has a turbocharger and sounds like crap as a result. Some just sound less terrible than others IMO.

New BMW’s all sound like crap, unless they got a V8. And even those sound terrible for a V8.

Mercedes with their 4-bangers now is criminal with sound. Same goes for Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, etc.. Muffled af due to turbos and regulations.

The days of good sounding exhausts are long gone. That’s not to say that some cars don’t sound decent. Fiat Abarth sounds good, for example. So does the A45 AMG.

To me, most aftermarket exhausts just amplify what is already a terrible note. But I admit the way we view exhaust noise is very subjective, sort of like looks.

 

[mbaapk]

Well, almost every car nowadays has a turbocharger and sounds like crap as a result. Some just sound less terrible than others IMO.

New BMW’s all sound like crap, unless they got a V8. And even those sound terrible for a V8.

Mercedes with their 4-bangers now is criminal with sound. Same goes for Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, etc.. Muffled af due to turbos and regulations.

The days of good sounding exhausts are long gone. That’s not to say that some cars don’t sound decent. Fiat Abarth sounds good, for example. So does the A45 AMG.

To me, most aftermarket exhausts just amplify what is already a terrible note. But I admit the way we view exhaust noise is very subjective, sort of like looks.

Just need burbling like the N.

 

[davemarco]

there is a clip in gee


Just need burbling like the N.

Sorry, where is the clip that you're referencing?

 

[davemarco]

Well, almost every car nowadays has a turbocharger and sounds like crap as a result. Some just sound less terrible than others IMO.

New BMW’s all sound like crap, unless they got a V8. And even those sound terrible for a V8.

Mercedes with their 4-bangers now is criminal with sound. Same goes for Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, etc.. Muffled af due to turbos and regulations.

The days of good sounding exhausts are long gone. That’s not to say that some cars don’t sound decent. Fiat Abarth sounds good, for example. So does the A45 AMG.

To me, most aftermarket exhausts just amplify what is already a terrible note. But I admit the way we view exhaust noise is very subjective, sort of like looks.

I agree, though on the spectrum of decent sounding 4cyl turbos, I feel like the R is one of the worst. Of course it's particularly tough when the other car in the stable plays sweet 5cyl turbo music. Every time I go back to the Type R from the RS, I have to shut the valve on my REMUS. It's no bueno.

 

[ASIMO Assassin]

More electronics = more things to go wrong.

I had a sunroof on prior cars and never again. Long term, things always break. If the seals don’t give out and it doesn’t develop a leak, then the motor and other moveable parts start to break down.

This

When I originally ordered my Audi DD, I was able to delete the panorama sunroof (and TMPS). I've never to this day come across another one that doesn't have one.

The glass and mechanism weigh 104 kg (~230lbs), all well above the centre of gravity. It has noticeable improvements in handling and acceleration compared to versions with the sunroof I've driven. Plus I never have to worry about leaking or the dreaded sunroof explosions. Another nice thing about it that I couldn't predict was that my hair would start to fall out.... so bonus, so no bald spot sunburns!

Less electronics and moving parts translates to longevity. My DD is now just over 9 years old, not a single issue yet... fingers crossed, haha.

 

[ApexEight]

Sunroof is a big no for me. Helmet room is underrated. Heated seats I can understand, especially for those in colder climates. Lol @ the guy saying FWD sports car with turbo 4s are a mistake.

 

[fredzy]

So about this Suzuka lap.. I notice the car bouncing a lot through corners at grip threshold. Nobody commented on that, and Honda clearly seems OK with it so I’m guessing that’s considered a normal-ish behavior in FWD world? Can anyone weigh in on why that’s happening? I think they need to soften some dampers.

This behavior is lethal (though very rare) on RWD cars.. I was waiting for him to bounce into the gravel on the T11 hairpin. With the front wheels dragging the car along I see that the risk is much lower, but it definitely exacts a cost. I would be desperate to tune that out of the car. Clearly the speed trade off of keeping the thing so stiff was worth it because their fast lap exhibited it.

Ultimately doesn’t matter too much since I wouldn’t take this to the track, but I’d definitely experience it from time to time in how I’d drive the car. I’m considering upgrading my DD in the next year, CTR has been sort of top of my list. The biggest problem I see is obtaining one. I’m second in line at a no-markup dealer for a GR Corolla (that’s one silver lining that came out of my awful struggle to obtain a GR86 this year!) but I’m having trouble seeing myself spend $40k on that car, as fun as it will be. It will be very special but I don’t think I would necessarily enjoy it more than the CTR.

 

[mbaapk]

So about this Suzuka lap.. I notice the car bouncing a lot through corners at grip threshold. Nobody commented on that, and Honda clearly seems OK with it so I’m guessing that’s considered a normal-ish behavior in FWD world? Can anyone weigh in on why that’s happening? I think they need to soften some dampers.

This behavior is lethal (though very rare) on RWD cars.. I was waiting for him to bounce into the gravel on the T11 hairpin. With the front wheels dragging the car along I see that the risk is much lower, but it definitely exacts a cost. I would be desperate to tune that out of the car. Clearly the speed trade off of keeping the thing so stiff was worth it because their fast lap exhibited it.

Ultimately doesn’t matter too much since I wouldn’t take this to the track, but I’d definitely experience it from time to time in how I’d drive the car. I’m considering upgrading my DD in the next year, CTR has been sort of top of my list. The biggest problem I see is obtaining one. I’m second in line at a no-markup dealer for a GR Corolla (that’s one silver lining that came out of my awful struggle to obtain a GR86 this year!) but I’m having trouble seeing myself spend $40k on that car, as fun as it will be. It will be very special but I don’t think I would necessarily enjoy it more than the CTR.

You should watch the LE do the ring if you have not already. That was bouncing, skipping on roids.

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