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PRL Motorsports

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“THE 11TH GEN 1.5T CIVIC IS THE SAME AS THE 10th GEN” – No it’s not.

“WHO WOULD BUY ONE OF THOSE STUPID CARS? THEY WILL NEVER MAKE THE POWER THE 10th GEN HAS” – Read Up!

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Plain and simple, 10th and 11th Gen Civics are not the same. Unfortunately for us and the community, there is virtually no interchangeability or compatibility between our existing 10th Gen Civic products and this new platform. Fortunately, though, we are able to use our existing knowledge to get a head start with product development. Since the release of the 10th Gen in 2016, PRL Motorsports has moved to much larger facility, added many new key players to our team and implemented new manufacturing strategies/capabilities to our playbook in an effort to keep setting the bar higher. Let’s dive into some of the changes Honda made with the 2022 Honda Civic 1.5L Turbo.

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At first glance, there are a few obvious differences in the engine bay. There is a notable increase in space between the radiator, fans and downpipe. – We suspect that this added space may be an effort to reduce engine bay and intake air temperatures.

The entire intake system is vastly different from the 10th Gen. From the turbocharger inlet pipe, to the bypass valve (which are both very reminiscent of the 10th Gen 1.5T Accord), the inlet hose, the MAF sensor orientation, the air box, and air duct. After looking into the intake system and air duct routing further, we can see that the 11th Gen utilizes rather efficient intake ducting, unlike the previous generation. For this reason we will be looking into continuing our High Volume Intake Air Box line that utilizes factory ducting.

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We can also see that the turbocharger is different in terms of compressor outlet routing and the fact Honda didn’t locate the BPV into the turbocharger inlet pipe. However, there are quite a few differences that aren’t so obvious to the naked eye. Honda implemented a new part number for this platform and which has been seen described as a high-efficiency turbocharger.

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As with the turbocharger, Honda has changed the cylinder head to a dual port design to suit, whereas the 10th Gen used a single port. This “new” head utilizes a different valvetrain and gets VTEC on the exhaust cam now. These changes helped increase response, fuel economy and bumped Honda’s base rated power about 6 horsepower and 15 lf/lb of torque more. We use the term “new” loosely, as the 11th Gen shares the same cylinder head and camshafts as the 10th Gen Accord. Talking with James from Ktuner and Derek from Innovative MotorWorks, 10th Gen 1.5T Accords make a bit more power than the 10th Gen Civic and shows all signs of having more power potential. The community can expect the 11th Gen Civic to outperform its little brother.

Downpipe, front pipe and exhaust system fitment has changed from the previous generation. No worries, though, we’ve already got the downpipe and front pipe part covered!

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Though the bumper/chassis change has increased air ducting for the intake, it has provided less room to fit an aftermarket intercooler upgrade. This has proven to be a bit of an obstacle for us with product development.

With all of the keyboard warriors’ criticism of the 11th Gen Civic, folks seem to forget that the now loved and accepted was 10th Gen Civic was once criticized by the majority too. Yes, the 2022 Civic is only available in CVT, but so was the 2016 Civic. Yes, the 2022 Civic (1.5T) isn’t available in an Si trim level, but neither was the 2016 Civic. Yes, we know that both Generations don’t rev 8k, have 4 exhaust ports, sound loud or provide an audible VTEC crossover “like a Honda should,” but Honda notably improves power output from the factory each generation change – the 11th Gen Civic is no different. To date, the 10th Gen Civic Si is the most powerful Civic Si, both from the factory and with basic bolt-on modifications. We’re beyond excited for the release of the new Si and show what this platform is capable of.

http://prlarmy.com/Blog/whats-new-with-the-1-5t-11th-gen-honda-civic-and-why-were-pumped/
 
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hobby-man

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Awesome write up guys. While I don't agree with some of the aesthetic decisions of the 11th gen so far its undeniable Honda is continuing to push development on the Earth Dreams 1.5T. I can see a ton of crossover (lessons learned) from the K20C1/C4 from the 10th gen Accord and Type R.

Looking forward to what you guys pull out of it, and what Honda does for the Si and R.
 

Jabberwocker

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It looks like the longer hood gets more air to the turbo.
 

takemorepills

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So, are all of the reviews that test 0-60, showing the GenXI to be significantly slower, by around a full sec, than a GenX incorrect? Or were they inadvertently testing a 2.0NA car?

Because if the difference between the base tune of the GenX and GenXI is as significant as the reviews are claiming, you need to come up with extra power just to get to parity with the GenX, then make even more to surpass it.

I just don't understand why the GenXI tests much slower than the GenX, is it the gearing now? I don't think the weight is up that much??
 

jimmybean123

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I blieve the slow 0-60 was on the top touring trim which is what nearly everbody got to review, so it had to be 1.5L. Also the 2.0L is quite slow IMO (I test drove the sport trim). I really appreciate the write up and the engineering angle, but if it has near 0 effect at the end and the entire product ends up being substantially slower with mpg being near identical... what does it all matter? Perhaps it will be able to be tuned better, but that's about it. I am looking forward to getting Hondata and goofing around, but let's be honest 99% people won't do that.
 

gtman

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So, are all of the reviews that test 0-60, showing the GenXI to be significantly slower, by around a full sec, than a GenX incorrect? Or were they inadvertently testing a 2.0NA car?

Because if the difference between the base tune of the GenX and GenXI is as significant as the reviews are claiming, you need to come up with extra power just to get to parity with the GenX, then make even more to surpass it.

I just don't understand why the GenXI tests much slower than the GenX, is it the gearing now? I don't think the weight is up that much??
^ This.

Car and Driver, Edmund's etc. were definitely testing the 1.5T.

They both were perplexed with the super slow times. Sure the car is the equal to having a passenger in the car heavier than the last gen, but with the supposed power increase that shouldn't take a mid to high 6 second car to a 7.5 to nearly 8 second car. There's obviously more to it than that. And I think Hondata's testing is a great place to look. They use the same dyno (Church's Dynapack) for all their runs.

Back in 2016 their bone stock Touring dyno'd at: 190 hp / 185 tq:

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Their 2022 EX dyno'd at: 162 hp / 163 tq:

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Clearly, Honda seems to have done some sort of detune to keep reliability and mpg numbers higher.

On the other hand, maybe what PRL is saying is that the 11th gen's 1.5 ultimately has more headroom to create more power than the 10th with the right parts/tune. Hopefully, PRL will publish their dyno results on a stock 2022 as well.
 
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PRL Motorsports

PRL Motorsports

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^ This.

Car and Driver, Edmund's etc. were definitely testing the 1.5T.

They both were perplexed with the super slow times. Sure the car is the equal to having a passenger in the car heavier than the last gen, but with the supposed power increase that shouldn't take a mid to high 6 second car to a 7.5 to nearly 8 second car. There's obviously more to it than that. And I think Hondata's testing is a great place to look. They use the same dyno (Church's Dynapack) for all their runs.

Back in 2016 their bone stock Touring dyno'd at: 190 hp / 185 tq:

civic_cvt_stock_87_oct_vs_91_octane_plus_6_psi-gif.gif


Their 2022 EX dyno'd at: 162 hp / 163 tq:

e6c9244c-28c5-48cd-84f0-1d35501651e3-png.png


Clearly, Honda seems to have done some sort of detune to keep reliability and mpg numbers higher.

On the other hand, maybe what PRL is saying is that the 11th gen's 1.5 ultimately has more headroom to create more power than the 10th with the right parts/tune. Hopefully, PRL will publish their dyno results on a stock 2022 as well.
Our 2016 1.5T Touring (CVT) baselined at 183 hp https://tiremeetsroad.com/2017/05/0...ipe-front-pipe-combo-adds-10-hp-and-14-lb-ft/, while Honda rates these at 174 hp.

Our 2022 1.5T Touring (CVT) baselined at 169 hp http://prlarmy.com/Blog/2022-honda-civic-1-5t-silicone-hose-upgrade-release-dyno/, while Honda rates these at 180 hp.

It's worth noting the 2022 Civic ECU targets less boost than the 2018+ 1.5T Accord ECU for whatever reason. Could this be the reason for the power difference? Unfortunately we weren't able to log any type of data during our initial dyno runs. There may be some sort of background table or algorithm affecting power output as well - maybe not. We will find out more information regarding this shortly. Judging from previous data and Honda's factory output ratings (however you want to take that), we see the 11th Gen platform having a bit more headroom than the 10th Gen.
 

gtman

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So this kind of confirms it. Where the 2016 power was underrated by Honda, the 2022 stock power seems to be overstated at bit and certainly reduced from the 10th gen.

Your numbers, Hondata's numbers and all the road testing pretty much show that.

On the other hand, I have no doubt you guys and the tuning pros will create some stuff that will take this car to a new level.

I mean, overall it does seem to be a terrific platform to build up.
 
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dallasjhawk

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Interesting facts from PRL. Appreciate you guys getting real world information to be shared on FB as we have already had to use this post as facts that they are definitely different 1.5ts from the 10ths
 

alic

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Maybe all the changes are made to address the oil dilution issue? I know Civic isn't as affected as CR-V, but since they have similar engine, it's possible all these changes will be reflected onto the new CR-V to resolve the oil dilution issue.
 
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