Noize
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2018
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- Location
- Under the radar
- Vehicle(s)
- 2023 Civic Type R
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- #1
This will be my running build journal and photography archive.
I bought my FL5 in the middle of April, 2023.
I've read a lot of writeups online about the FL5. When being compared to the FK8, the facts that the new car has a ton more rubber, has been scaled down visually, and the track overheating issues have been resolved are all well documented. Unfortunately, they didn't really answer the intangible questions that I wanted to know as a former FK8 owner. Since availability is preposterously scarce, the best data for me was what I could read from Car & Driver, online sources, etc. After purchasing one and driving it 5 hours home, I wanted to make a brief writeup to fill in some of the blanks for other people interested in these cars.
The first thing I wanted to address is that the 11th generation Civic has moved a little more upmarket. It feels more expensive throughout. Here's a little more info on that:
-The FL5 seats are flat out better to me. The FK8 seats were wonderfully supportive almost everywhere, excpet for lumbar. After an hour in the saddle, the FK8 hurt my lower back. After two hours plus, I had to put a lumbar roll back there to reduce discomfort. YMMV on this one, some people report no pain in the FK8 seats. I just wasn't one of the lucky ones.
-The new joysticks for the vent control and the mesh covering just look better, and are nicer to touch and operate.
-All of the switchgear is at least one grade higher.
The FL5 infotainment kicks the FK8's ass:
-The center HUD in the FK8 was slow, laggy, unreliable at times. It already felt very dated in 2017 when it released. The FL5 is much better in this regard so far.
-The driver gauge display is modern, slick, and feels ten years newer in the FL5. Lots of cool stuff here.
-The Bose audio isn't European car good, but it's an upgrade over the FK8 audio. You can actually hear the sub, and the rest of the speakers have better separation and clarity.
-The early FK8s required you to go into a menu to adjust fan speed, which was asinine. The later FK8s added fan speed buttons, but you still could not toggle the A/C on and off without accessing the menu. As someone who doesn't want to leave the A/C on all the time and just adjust with temp, I love easy access to this button. A/C on is a physical button on the FL5.
Suspension: I have read in a few places that the FL5 suspension is excessively harsh. This is nonsense. I almost never used comfort mode in my FK8 because it would feel floaty at times. Comfort mode in the FL5 is perfect for interstate travel or city use with potholes, in the state of Tennessee at least. Sport is definitely a little more aggressive, and what I would want on a twisty back road and likely some tracks, depending on surfaces. +R was something I expected to rattle my fillings out, and that just didn't happen. It's likely too stiff for some tracks, but might be perfect for others. I feel the balance of the suspension stiffness choices is better this generation.
The cockpit view is much more sports car than hot hatch. You sit lower in this car, and the hood is longer. Some have compared the view and position to a RWD car, and that's correct. Visually, I love this generation. The beltline is super low when viewed sitting next to the FK8. The styling is inoffensive and age appropriate for me. I wouldn't hesitate to pick up clients in this car. The fenders are fat- oh those sexy hips. The FK8’s width was accomplished by tacked on panels, which seems more suited to youth.
All of this might seem like I am bagging on the FK8- Not so! The FK8 is more raw and rowdy. The FL5 is refined to near perfection. Some of the lack of refinement and visual loudness is what makes the FK8 such a great car. The FK8 turbo hits a little harder up top and the final drive is shorter. It’s a bit lighter. It’s also slightly quicker in straight line acceleration.
Edit 2: Drove the FK8 a little this morning for a true back to back again, and there’s another thing I like a whole lot about it. It feels like a more compact car than the FL5 It doesn’t feel cramped, but the front of the car definitely seems closer to you if that makes any sense. It’s cozy and great for fast driving.
As somebody who’s loved Evos for years, the FK8 feels more like an Evo IX and the FL5 feels more like an Evo X. The formula is the same, but the changes in refinements have brought together and experience that is somehow different.
Side by side, I would pick the FL5 every time, because of the small amounts of improvement everywhere. But is it a worthwhile upgrade from an FK8? That's a tougher call. If you value character and feistiness, no way would it make sense. If you view those attributes with as a bit of a nuisance, it might make sense to jump.
There are a few things that are negatives worth mentioning on the FL5:
-ADM sucks!
-Red carpet here, there, everywhere!
-What happened to the FK8's cool capless fuel tank?
-The start up chimes are excessive. She likes to sing to you for several seconds when you first get underway.
**In regards to the VW, these cars couldn’t be more opposite.
I’m a manual guy through and through, but the only way to correctly experience a VW/Audi and win races is with a DSG.
The Golf was a highway passing machine and monster from a red light. Even from a roll and with both cars stock, it would flat out walk my friend’s FK8 from any gear. They run mid 12s at 110-111 stock with DSG. Tune only, they’ll go mid 11s, and will crush lots of cars costing thousands more. It’s also a comfortable, dependable, and quiet commuter.
The audio system in the Golf R was so much better than the Civic. It was clean and clear, a great place to spend time commuting and listening to tunes you love.
The infotainment in the Golf is a bit cumbersome, but not nearly as hostile as some reviewers make it out to be. It’s still head and shoulders better than the FK8. Once you master the slight learning curve, there is no problem.
Read so far, it seems like I was crazy to trade away the Golf. And if you can only drive in traffic or on the interstate, you would need to really reflect why you would trade it for a CTR.
But the place the Golf R falls down is that it lacks precision and is not visceral at all. The new torque vectoring rear diff helps a ton, and the lap times are very close to an FK8. Especially on a big track with long straights where the Golf can flex that muscle. But the Type R makes all that time up in corners and braking. It’s a literal razor compared.
If handling is a metric that you hold dear, the FL5 is nearly impossible to beat. It drives like an absolute dream, and makes carving curves and canyons sheer joy. It’s truly confidence inspiring in dynamic driving.
With the refinement improvements mentioned early in this writeup, the FL5 feels like a grown up FK8 with a just a little Golf R seasoning sprinkled into the mix for good measure!
I bought my FL5 in the middle of April, 2023.
I've read a lot of writeups online about the FL5. When being compared to the FK8, the facts that the new car has a ton more rubber, has been scaled down visually, and the track overheating issues have been resolved are all well documented. Unfortunately, they didn't really answer the intangible questions that I wanted to know as a former FK8 owner. Since availability is preposterously scarce, the best data for me was what I could read from Car & Driver, online sources, etc. After purchasing one and driving it 5 hours home, I wanted to make a brief writeup to fill in some of the blanks for other people interested in these cars.
The first thing I wanted to address is that the 11th generation Civic has moved a little more upmarket. It feels more expensive throughout. Here's a little more info on that:
-The FL5 seats are flat out better to me. The FK8 seats were wonderfully supportive almost everywhere, excpet for lumbar. After an hour in the saddle, the FK8 hurt my lower back. After two hours plus, I had to put a lumbar roll back there to reduce discomfort. YMMV on this one, some people report no pain in the FK8 seats. I just wasn't one of the lucky ones.
-The new joysticks for the vent control and the mesh covering just look better, and are nicer to touch and operate.
-All of the switchgear is at least one grade higher.
The FL5 infotainment kicks the FK8's ass:
-The center HUD in the FK8 was slow, laggy, unreliable at times. It already felt very dated in 2017 when it released. The FL5 is much better in this regard so far.
-The driver gauge display is modern, slick, and feels ten years newer in the FL5. Lots of cool stuff here.
-The Bose audio isn't European car good, but it's an upgrade over the FK8 audio. You can actually hear the sub, and the rest of the speakers have better separation and clarity.
-The early FK8s required you to go into a menu to adjust fan speed, which was asinine. The later FK8s added fan speed buttons, but you still could not toggle the A/C on and off without accessing the menu. As someone who doesn't want to leave the A/C on all the time and just adjust with temp, I love easy access to this button. A/C on is a physical button on the FL5.
Suspension: I have read in a few places that the FL5 suspension is excessively harsh. This is nonsense. I almost never used comfort mode in my FK8 because it would feel floaty at times. Comfort mode in the FL5 is perfect for interstate travel or city use with potholes, in the state of Tennessee at least. Sport is definitely a little more aggressive, and what I would want on a twisty back road and likely some tracks, depending on surfaces. +R was something I expected to rattle my fillings out, and that just didn't happen. It's likely too stiff for some tracks, but might be perfect for others. I feel the balance of the suspension stiffness choices is better this generation.
The cockpit view is much more sports car than hot hatch. You sit lower in this car, and the hood is longer. Some have compared the view and position to a RWD car, and that's correct. Visually, I love this generation. The beltline is super low when viewed sitting next to the FK8. The styling is inoffensive and age appropriate for me. I wouldn't hesitate to pick up clients in this car. The fenders are fat- oh those sexy hips. The FK8’s width was accomplished by tacked on panels, which seems more suited to youth.
All of this might seem like I am bagging on the FK8- Not so! The FK8 is more raw and rowdy. The FL5 is refined to near perfection. Some of the lack of refinement and visual loudness is what makes the FK8 such a great car. The FK8 turbo hits a little harder up top and the final drive is shorter. It’s a bit lighter. It’s also slightly quicker in straight line acceleration.
Edit 2: Drove the FK8 a little this morning for a true back to back again, and there’s another thing I like a whole lot about it. It feels like a more compact car than the FL5 It doesn’t feel cramped, but the front of the car definitely seems closer to you if that makes any sense. It’s cozy and great for fast driving.
As somebody who’s loved Evos for years, the FK8 feels more like an Evo IX and the FL5 feels more like an Evo X. The formula is the same, but the changes in refinements have brought together and experience that is somehow different.
Side by side, I would pick the FL5 every time, because of the small amounts of improvement everywhere. But is it a worthwhile upgrade from an FK8? That's a tougher call. If you value character and feistiness, no way would it make sense. If you view those attributes with as a bit of a nuisance, it might make sense to jump.
There are a few things that are negatives worth mentioning on the FL5:
-ADM sucks!
-Red carpet here, there, everywhere!
-What happened to the FK8's cool capless fuel tank?
-The start up chimes are excessive. She likes to sing to you for several seconds when you first get underway.
**In regards to the VW, these cars couldn’t be more opposite.
I’m a manual guy through and through, but the only way to correctly experience a VW/Audi and win races is with a DSG.
The Golf was a highway passing machine and monster from a red light. Even from a roll and with both cars stock, it would flat out walk my friend’s FK8 from any gear. They run mid 12s at 110-111 stock with DSG. Tune only, they’ll go mid 11s, and will crush lots of cars costing thousands more. It’s also a comfortable, dependable, and quiet commuter.
The audio system in the Golf R was so much better than the Civic. It was clean and clear, a great place to spend time commuting and listening to tunes you love.
The infotainment in the Golf is a bit cumbersome, but not nearly as hostile as some reviewers make it out to be. It’s still head and shoulders better than the FK8. Once you master the slight learning curve, there is no problem.
Read so far, it seems like I was crazy to trade away the Golf. And if you can only drive in traffic or on the interstate, you would need to really reflect why you would trade it for a CTR.
But the place the Golf R falls down is that it lacks precision and is not visceral at all. The new torque vectoring rear diff helps a ton, and the lap times are very close to an FK8. Especially on a big track with long straights where the Golf can flex that muscle. But the Type R makes all that time up in corners and braking. It’s a literal razor compared.
If handling is a metric that you hold dear, the FL5 is nearly impossible to beat. It drives like an absolute dream, and makes carving curves and canyons sheer joy. It’s truly confidence inspiring in dynamic driving.
With the refinement improvements mentioned early in this writeup, the FL5 feels like a grown up FK8 with a just a little Golf R seasoning sprinkled into the mix for good measure!
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