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I think Honda said they're waiting for optimal conditions in spring.

At a certain point, it won't matter. If manufacturers go past no-return on EV-only, then ICE cars will disappear anyway.

I see where you're coming from, but even in this example, the "X is good despite Y" argument is an arbitrary thing to place value on. It's not untrue per se, but it's not necessarily inherently "good" or "valuable," because we must first define what "good" and "valuable" mean. To bring it back...

Ah, so you're saying that meaning/significance is intrinsic to any trait that can be quantified. Would you say that's true? That's certainly an interesting worldview.

But isn't this just "fluffy shit" as well? Like, what gives it significance? For you, what's the difference between this "fluffy shit" (which matters) and other "fluffy shit" (that doesn't, like "feel")?

That was a fun bout. In all seriousness, if this is your stance, why do you want an FL5? Plenty of cars will be faster and can be had for probably the same money or less. And who are you racing all the time?

tbh I think the CE timing is really good. All the road crap will have cleared up hopefully on delivery, so can just go out and have fun.

Congrats!

Nah man, some people are all about that numbers game. The E stands for Enthusiast! More like euthanize. Me. (ngl a Honda e Type R sounds like kinda cool)

That's true. In the end, I think Toyota was aiming for a car built within a budget to land within a target performance envelope, and I think they nailed it on that front. More options with similar price and performance forces each one to differentiate themselves through their character, and...

Doesn't LE also come with stickier tires than standard as well? Normal FK8 might edge out GRC using the same tires.

A GR-Four drivetrain with a Mazda 3 Premium interior would be peak decadence. Yeah, the 2.5 Turbo AWD is just... :| Feels like you're driving a lower CX-5 more than anything with any sporty intentions.

Hope I don't get kicked for this (1) Looking past the Hype of the GRC | Page 13 | Toyota GR Corolla Forum - Release Date, Specs, Pricing Discussion

Totally. I didn't mean the understeer was for safety, just that "safe" was a word several reviewers used to describe the characteristics of the car, which certainly understeer lends to. In any case, firmly in the FL5 camp now. Just gonna enjoy our Abarth as much as I can in the meantime.

I'm just glad FL5 had a much better place to start from.

Yeah, it's a shame. I think it's just a cost-cutting measure at this point.

Savagegeese also said "read between the lines" in comparing against FL5. Looks like the general opinion so far was "okay, pretty good." I was gonna give every video coming out UMC a pass, since it was pretty hot and all the cars were running all day on probably the same sets of tires, so you...

I sure do :p

I'm so glad I stayed up for this o_O

That is wild. Even the current one, with its tiny wheelbase, is incredibly fun to toss around. Definitely not a precision machine like FK8, but very exciting in its own way.