2nd gear issue- no grind something else

[UCF120]

Got a wierd issue with my car that I’m hoping someone can shed some light on.

Car is a 23’ with 8k miles now. Has acuity cable shifter bushings and Hasport 62a RMM. For the most part, my transmission shifts pretty smoothly. 1-2 is always smooth and I’ve never once had a grind. In fact, I’ve never grinded any gear.

However, I do have an odd sensation in the gear knob when downshifting from 3-2. There’s no grinding noise or any noise at all associated with it. But occasionally, mostly when cold but even when hot, I’ll get this “Buzz” sensation in the gear knob when first hitting the gate going from 3-2 only. I’ve turned auto rev match off and the sensation actually happens less with it off but it still happens.

I don’t get locked out of gear, there is no grind, and it goes into gear smoothly every time after. It’s the oddest thing and I’ve never felt it before on any car. It’s almost like a small shock type feeling in the gear knob when initially hitting the gate going from 3-2. Like it almost wants to grind but doesn’t.

I recently changed tranmission fluid from the factory fill to Amsoil 75w-90 transmission and transaxle gear lube. The sensation was present on both fluids. The Amsoil has slightly improved hot shifting but cold is about the same as factory I would say.

Anyone experiencing this or have any insight?

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[princers]

does it feel like the cars jerking or do you experience some type of delay when shifting?

 

[UCF120]

does it feel like the cars jerking or do you experience some type of delay when shifting?

Nope.

Maybe a better way to describe what I’m feeling is the feeling you get in the shift knob when the car does grind. But the shift is smooth into gear after the feeling and there is no grinding sound or lockout from going into the gear. Just the odd sensation in the gear knob that is not present in any other up or downshift into any other gear. Just 3-2.

 

[princers]

wonder if its something internal like the gear sychros. weird that its only 3-2 for sure

 

[UCF120]

wonder if its something internal like the gear sychros. weird that its only 3-2 for sure

I’m sure hoping not lol I feel like if it was the synchro I would feel it going from 1-2. The fact that I only feel it going from 3-2 and only sometimes is what boggles my mind.

It’s like my specialty to get cars with issues that no one else else has

 

[RP2000R]

I also agree with the Amsoil fluid comment, improved warm performance same or worse in the cold.

As far as the transmission tickle or shock sensation I would guess it comes from the rmm and possibly bushings due to increased stiffness. Maybe just a sensation from the clutch or flywheel motion..

 

[TypeRD]

Interesting take on Amsoil. Worse in cold? I used it in my previous car (completely stock 8th gen Si) for years and it was a great improvement from Honda mtf, including in cold (negative temps). I know it’s a different car and different trans than the FL5, so it’s not an apples to apples comparison. You’ve also done some mods to your car, which likely plays a role as well, but it’s hard to say. There’s a lot of factors…I’m just very surprised you find Amsoil worse and had to chime in.

 

[UCF120]

I also agree with the Amsoil fluid comment, improved warm performance same or worse in the cold.

As far as the transmission tickle or shock sensation I would guess it comes from the rmm and possibly bushings due to increased stiffness. Maybe just a sensation from the clutch or flywheel motion..

Interesting take on Amsoil. Worse in cold? I used it in my previous car (completely stock 8th gen Si) for years and it was a great improvement from Honda mtf, including in cold (negative temps). I know it’s a different car and different trans than the FL5, so it’s not an apples to apples comparison. You’ve also done some mods to your car, which likely plays a role as well, but it’s hard to say. There’s a lot of factors…I’m just very surprised you find Amsoil worse and had to chime in.

I definitely don’t find the Amsoil worse in the cold. I find it to be pretty good in the cold but not really any smoother than the Honda stuff. With the transmission hot then yes absolutely the Amsoil is a touch smoother. I wouldn’t say it’s a game changer smoother but noticeably smoother over Honda MTF.

I don’t feel like what I’m feeling in the shifter has to do with the RMM or acuity shifter bushings. I’ve read tons and tons of threads and reviews on these products and not one person mentions this feeling.

at this point I almost wish it was a full on grind it would at least tell me what’s wrong. This buzz sensation is just odd and I’ve never heard anyone talk about it and any thread or complaint I’ve ever seen

 

[TypeRD]

I definitely don’t find the Amsoil worse in the cold. I find it to be pretty good in the cold but not really any smoother than the Honda stuff. With the transmission hot then yes absolutely the Amsoil is a touch smoother. I wouldn’t say it’s a game changer smoother but noticeably smoother over Honda MTF.

I don’t feel like what I’m feeling in the shifter has to do with the RMM or acuity shifter bushings. I’ve read tons and tons of threads and reviews on these products and not one person mentions this feeling.

at this point I almost wish it was a full on grind it would at least tell me what’s wrong. This buzz sensation is just odd and I’ve never heard anyone talk about it and any thread or complaint I’ve ever seen

It sounds like maybe a synchro is slightly out of sync? That’s the only thing that makes any sense to me…but I’m not sure. Maybe you can find another FL5 owner nearby who would be willing to do a comparison with their car?

Something that would be helpful to know is if it happens at a certain RPM. As you know, these engines are not balanced so they are more “live” and you can feel/hear more engine vibrations/sounds at various RPMs. An RMM would very likely affect this, since it affects the engine to transmission connection.

 

[UCF120]

It sounds like maybe a synchro is slightly out of sync? That’s the only thing that makes any sense to me…but I’m not sure. Maybe you can find another FL5 owner nearby who would be willing to do a comparison with their car?

Something that would be helpful to know is if it happens at a certain RPM. As you know, these engines are not balanced so they are more “live” and you can feel/hear more engine vibrations/sounds at various RPMs. An RMM would very likely affect this, since it affects the engine to transmission connection.

it’s definitely a possibility. I just know this is a relatively recent thing. I’ve maybe only been feeling this the last couple thousand miles

What boggles my mind is that the 1-2 shift is silky smooth! If it were synchro related I feel like I would feel it up shifting AND downshifting into second. The fact that I only feel it downshifting into second is odd.

what’s sad is I have a lot of complaints about this car unfortunately. Either others just choose to ignore them or it’s only my car doing these things . I want to love it as it’s a great car, but I feel like every thread I make is another issue with the car that no one else seems to have.

this issue and a harshess/vibration around 4k rpm are my main issues with this car that I can’t seem to get over..especially for the price! If no one else feels the extra vibration and harshness this car has at 4k rpm that’s crazy to me or again..my car is the only one doing it.

 

[TypeRD]

Others have reported hearing/feeling more vibrations around 3k-4k RPMs and it seems entirely normal and has been chalked up to the engine being intentionally unbalanced…which makes sense. This is unlike most K20’s of the past! As such it will definitely vibrate more than balanced Honda engines.

Maybe someone more technical than me will chime in, but I’m pretty sure the sychro between 1-2 and 3-4 and 5-6 are each different. So it makes even more sense that your downshifts from 3-2 are less smooth because you’re switching between sychros.

I mean…I don’t know what your expectations are with this car. Everyone is different. It could simply be that you’re less accepting of some of its rough edges or lack of refinement, whereas (most?) others simply love it for what it is versus hate it for what it isn’t.

 

[UCF120]

Others have reported hearing/feeling more vibrations around 3k-4k RPMs and it seems entirely normal and has been chalked up to the engine being intentionally unbalanced…which makes sense. This is unlike most K20’s of the past! As such it will definitely vibrate more than balanced Honda engines.

Maybe someone more technical than me will chime in, but I’m pretty sure the sychro between 1-2 and 3-4 and 5-6 are each different. So it makes even more sense that your downshifts from 3-2 are less smooth because you’re switching between sychros.

I mean…I don’t know what your expectations are with this car. Everyone is different. It could simply be that you’re less accepting of some of its rough edges or lack of refinement, whereas (most?) others simply love it for what it is versus hate it for what it isn’t.

not a bad way to put it. I honestly do love the car and its capabilities. I suppose I’m just very critical of some its faults or characteristics. If I could get some confirmation that what I’m feeling is normal I would probably be ok with them. I understand the vibration is more than likely do to the unbalanced engine, it’s just an unsettling feeling to me. The sensation I’m feeling during shifting from 3-2 I feel isn’t good but who knows.

I’m comparing this to my 02’ S2000. That car is actually a 90’s era car that the Type R is supposed to be mimicking in feel. The funny thing is, I feel my s2000 has none of the vibration or harshness this car has and the shifter is buttery smooth every gear! A lot compare the type R shifter feel to the s2000 and imo, it’s not even close. The s2000 has it by a mile.

that being said, I’ve put a lot of money in my s2000 and the Type R would still run circles around it. The Jester tune on my Type R is phenomenal and the car just pulls like a freight train. It would put car lengths on the s2000 in any straight line race. The handling is amazing as well, car handles like it’s on rails. I would even put it above the s2000 in that regard.

At the end of the day, I just want to know the Type R is good and this is the way it’s supposed to be. I put more emphasis on the way a car feels more so than the way it performs if that makes sense. Which is why I love the s2000 so much. So many people make very high claims for the “feel” of the Type R which is a factor that led me to purchase. I guess that’s all relative to what that person is used to feeling but I have trouble saying this car has met my standard of how a car should feel. Especially when a 25 year old roadster is feeling better than it

 

[J_D]

Had it in my old FK8 and my FL5 sometimes. It feels like you are feeling the gears turning into each other through the knob right

 

[UCF120]

Had it in my old FK8 and my FL5 sometimes. It feels like you are feeling the gears turning into each other through the knob right

I don’t know if I would describe it like that but possibly. It’s literally like a shock that I can feel through the shift knob. Best way I can describe it is like what you feel in the knob when the gears grind but without the gears actually making a grinding sound or preventing you from going into gear

 

[TypeRD]

@UCF120 I think that’s really the “problem.” It’s your expectation bias, which I totally understand. I think you’re expecting a more refined car while comparing it to one of the absolute best driver’s cars ever made (though 25+ yrs old). In some ways I still miss my FA5 (I owned it for almost 14 years) ; Part of that is purely sentimental and another part of it is material/mechanical. As time marches on I’m not necessarily convinced that newer is always “better.” As much as I absolutely love my FL5, it actually took me a little while to get used to it and its idiosyncrasies, despite it being the best car overall that I’ve ever owned. Weird right? It seems like you can relate.

It’s awesome that you have the best of both worlds and you can appreciate them separately. I’d love to have an S2k alongside my FL5, but I’d have to figure out where to store it…that isn’t at another Civic XI member’s house.

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