Fortune Auto 510s or HKS Hipermax R or Ohlins?

[Tougefl5]

I've given a lot of real world experiences with both customer service and performance with my kwv3. Not opinion or word of mouth actual experiences.

OP like most people with these cars they spend the majority of time on the street. Let alone have the skills to extract the full potential of a motorsports coilover set up.

That 3k your wanting to spend could go into seat time at the track. You might find out that at this stage you don't even need to modify the car.
Walk before you can run.

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[chadwicke619]

So I am going to preface by saying I've got Ohlins Road and Track coilovers - professionally ride height adjusted and corner balanced by a race shop, unloaded suspension/adjustable links for reinstall, etc. I do not have adjustable top hats or ball joints so my camber isn't much off from stock maximums.

Right out of the gate, I would say that I was both happy and disappointed. I would say that coilovers are a bad choice unless you're going to track the car at least semi-frequently - hard stop. I think I had managed to convince myself that the Ohlins would be better for daily driving AND better for the track - and that's kind of even how they market them - but it simply isn't the case. The car is just flat out stiffer - shocker, right? You feel the bumps more. You can feel the car rebound harder. You can feel that the spring rates are higher. Stock spring rates are 4K front, 4K rear, I think... something like that. With the Ohlins, you move to 6K front, 10K rear - the result is that there is less understeer and more oversteer. It is actually kind of jarring at first, especially if you're accustomed to driving the CTR hard, and you're NOT accustomed to oversteer. Some people might say, "Well, you can just adjust the strut/damper!", and that's technically correct, but also... not really. Yes, the rears are easy to get to and I can adjust those by hand on the fly in moments; however, the fronts have this reverse monotube design with the adjustment on the bottom, and it's pretty hard to get to on the fly. Even with the wheel off, it's still kind of a pain in the ass.

That being said, I absolutely fucking love how it drives. When you can find some nice, flat pavement with some decent twists, it just feels so, so good. It doesn't lift as bad on the 1-2 shift (or any shift), it puts the power down better, the body roll is substantially reduced, I feel more through my hands and body it seems... it just feels nice. It also leaves you with a ride height that isn't much lower than stock, which I appreciate. I keep the front pretty stiff (5-6 clicks from closed), but I keep the rears a little softer (11-12 clicks from closed) - if you set the rear dampers too stiff, bumps on the road unsettle the car pretty badly and it ends up feeling like the she's lifting her feet unnecessarily, which I don't love. If I could summarize how it feels in a single (somewhat hyperbolic) quote, I would say that it feels amazing when you're going fast, and kind of shitty when you're going slow. If your goal is to feel more like a racing machine though, and to be better at racing machine stuff, it succeeds, and that's definitely not copium over the, like, $4K they cost.

I've also had experience with the Ohlins service center. After I installed the coilovers, when I went to adjust them the first time after driving the car, I could no longer adjust the passenger rear damper - the adjuster had seized up somehow, even though I had adjusted them fine before putting them on the car. Ohlins took it in and told me they had never seen anything like it, and that this problem was typically user error - I insisted it wasn't me and they said ok and didn't charge me a dime. They even fixed and replaced all the parts rather than just repairing and refurbing it. The service truly was top notch. I can't tell you what it will cost you for a rebuild down the line - by memory, anyway - but all the pricing is outlined on their website.

If you're wondering if it's going to feel as comfortable as when you're driving around on stock Comfort drive mode with stock suspension, the answer is definitely "no". If you're wondering if it's going to feel a little more like a purpose built race car (while still being everything a purpose built race car is not), the answer is definitely "yes".

 

[matttheazn]

So I am going to preface by saying I've got Ohlins Road and Track coilovers - professionally ride height adjusted and corner balanced by a race shop, unloaded suspension/adjustable links for reinstall, etc. I do not have adjustable top hats or ball joints so my camber isn't much off from stock maximums.

Right out of the gate, I would say that I was both happy and disappointed. I would say that coilovers are a bad choice unless you're going to track the car at least semi-frequently - hard stop. I think I had managed to convince myself that the Ohlins would be better for daily driving AND better for the track - and that's kind of even how they market them - but it simply isn't the case. The car is just flat out stiffer - shocker, right? You feel the bumps more. You can feel the car rebound harder. You can feel that the spring rates are higher. Stock spring rates are 4K front, 4K rear, I think... something like that. With the Ohlins, you move to 6K front, 10K rear - the result is that there is less understeer and more oversteer. It is actually kind of jarring at first, especially if you're accustomed to driving the CTR hard, and you're NOT accustomed to oversteer. Some people might say, "Well, you can just adjust the strut/damper!", and that's technically correct, but also... not really. Yes, the rears are easy to get to and I can adjust those by hand on the fly in moments; however, the fronts have this reverse monotube design with the adjustment on the bottom, and it's pretty hard to get to on the fly. Even with the wheel off, it's still kind of a pain in the ass.

That being said, I absolutely fucking love how it drives. When you can find some nice, flat pavement with some decent twists, it just feels so, so good. It doesn't lift as bad on the 1-2 shift (or any shift), it puts the power down better, the body roll is substantially reduced, I feel more through my hands and body it seems... it just feels nice. It also leaves you with a ride height that isn't much lower than stock, which I appreciate. I keep the front pretty stiff (5-6 clicks from closed), but I keep the rears a little softer (11-12 clicks from closed) - if you set the rear dampers too stiff, bumps on the road unsettle the car pretty badly and it ends up feeling like the she's lifting her feet unnecessarily, which I don't love. If I could summarize how it feels in a single (somewhat hyperbolic) quote, I would say that it feels amazing when you're going fast, and kind of shitty when you're going slow. If your goal is to feel more like a racing machine though, and to be better at racing machine stuff, it succeeds, and that's definitely not copium over the, like, $4K they cost.

I've also had experience with the Ohlins service center. After I installed the coilovers, when I went to adjust them the first time after driving the car, I could no longer adjust the passenger rear damper - the adjuster had seized up somehow, even though I had adjusted them fine before putting them on the car. Ohlins took it in and told me they had never seen anything like it, and that this problem was typically user error - I insisted it wasn't me and they said ok and didn't charge me a dime. They even fixed and replaced all the parts rather than just repairing and refurbing it. The service truly was top notch. I can't tell you what it will cost you for a rebuild down the line - by memory, anyway - but all the pricing is outlined on their website.

If you're wondering if it's going to feel as comfortable as when you're driving around on stock Comfort drive mode with stock suspension, the answer is definitely "no". If you're wondering if it's going to feel a little more like a purpose built race car (while still being everything a purpose built race car is not), the answer is definitely "yes".

Thank you so much for sharing. I really appreciate the real world opinion. I was just assuming that with coils at the softest settings they would ride near or softer than stock. I was hoping to make the daily ride on the super soft setting, then while at the track stiffen the settings and drive hard. Then at the end of day switch back to soft and drive home.

 

[chadwicke619]

Thank you so much for sharing. I really appreciate the real world opinion. I was just assuming that with coils at the softest settings they would ride near or softer than stock. I was hoping to make the daily ride on the super soft setting, then while at the track stiffen the settings and drive hard. Then at the end of day switch back to soft and drive home.

To be honest, that might still work out great for you. Full transparency - I've never had the coils at the softest setting. I also never used Comfort mode, back when the modes still changed my suspension feel. I like it to feel pretty stiff as a daily driver - I work from home and I don't have any children, so I keep it pretty aggressive. I mean, I think originally I figured the same as you to a certain extent - "Hey, if it's too stiff, I'll just adjust it, no big deal". Pretty quickly I realized that adjusting the fronts wasn't something you could just do in like 30 seconds. Plus, when I originally installed them, I started right in the middle at 10 clicks, and it was already a bit softer than I wanted, so my fronts have never been that soft since.

Still, all that said, if you drive around in Comfort more a lot, and/or if having a nice, smooth, soft ride is even remotely a top item on your list, I don't know that I would recommend coilovers to someone. If you're looking for performance, oversteer reduction, stiffness, body roll reduction, etc., then coilovers might be a fine idea. Just know that you'll lose something, no matter what. I'm happy and I would do it again, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't surprised that the tradeoffs were actually real.

 

[matttheazn]

I live in comfort suspension mode. I have found that for autox and my local roads it is the only way as sport begins to make the car "skip" across the roads and parking lots. Type r suspension is just bounce city. I feel like I could use better rebound compression. This is my very limited knowledge and experience talking though.

I leave everything else in Type r mode on the daily. It just the suspension settings that live in comfort mode.

 

[TW00Si]

The moment you swap out OEM stock parts for a mod, it’s going to be harsher in terms of NVH. With coilovers, it’s going to be harsher than stock. Every coilover has higher spring rates and you best hope that the valving on the struts is good for the spring rates. That’s where the different brands come into play.

Ask yourself whether you want to sacrifice ride comfort for the X amount of days at the track and what your normal commute road conditions are like before you spend the money.

I have Ohlins DFV on my S2000. Absolutely awesome at the track. Absolutely painful driving on the street.

 

[Tougefl5]

Damn I feel bad for y'all with the ohlins. For a street track coilover. I don't think that they should be a rougher ride then stock. You got to remember with street coilover most have progressive springs and the focus is tire contact. The hard rate and linner springs are for smooth track and sticky tires. A harsh ride with street/ track coilovers. That shouldn't happen and tuning is probably off.

 

[chadwicke619]

Damn I feel bad for y'all with the ohlins. For a street track coilover. I don't think that they should be a rougher ride then stock. You got to remember with street coilover most have progressive springs and the focus is tire contact. The hard rate and linner springs are for smooth track and sticky tires. A harsh ride with street/ track coilovers. That shouldn't happen and tuning is probably off.

i don’t know why you would feel bad - my car drives awesome and the coils are fantastic. What coilovers are using progressive springs? My research seemed to indicate that pretty much all of the quality coilover setups are using linear springs. What coils are you on that both feel like stock with no NVH increase AND provide all the track benefits of a quality setup?

 

[Tougefl5]

i don’t know why you would feel bad - my car drives awesome and the coils are fantastic. What coilovers are using progressive springs? My research seemed to indicate that pretty much all of the quality coilover setups are using linear springs. What coils are you on that both feel like stock with no NVH increase AND provide all the track benefits of a quality setup?

You have progressive springs on those. They are not track coilovers. They are designed for the street use. Totally different approach.
If tuned properly they should corner flat.
Not sure why you mentioned NVH because I certainly didn't.
As far as the coilovers on my fl5 is KW along with rv6 and spoon products for chassis modifications for stiffness.
Even with those enhancements it still rides better than stock, eats up road imperfections flat or not. I don't track the car because it's built for touge.

 

[chadwicke619]

You have progressive springs on those. They are not track coilovers. They are designed for the street use. Totally different approach.
If tuned properly they should corner flat.
Not sure why you mentioned NVH because I certainly didn't.
As far as the coilovers on my fl5 is KW along with rv6 and spoon products for chassis modifications for stiffness.
Even with those enhancements it still rides better than stock, eats up road imperfections flat or not. I don't track the car because it's built for touge.

I think you might be confused - the Ohlins Road and Track coilovers, at least for the CTR platform, use single rate linear springs in both the front and the rear, with a much higher spring rate in the rear to reduce all the understeer. I don't know exactly what you mean by "corner flat", but my car, with it's current dampening/rebound/compression and ride height, handles pretty neutrally, almost like an AWD car.

I mentioned NVH because OP and I, at least in my opinion, were talking about comfort levels, and generally when people are talking about comfort within the context of daily drivability, they're talking, at least in part, about NVH. I would posit that if your car does indeed handle road imperfections like a stock CTR in Comfort mode - if driving around in your car feels comfy and soft in the cabin and on the steering and the body roll like stock Comfort mode - then it doesn't handle as well as mine does - like, not even remotely.

As I said before, my car is currently setup to be pretty stiff - my fronts are 5 clicks from closed, which is track setting territory. I could probably move the fronts out to 20 clicks and it would probably feel more like a cloud, but as I said before, they're not easy to adjust (again, my opinion), so you have to make a choice - set it soft so you can replicate that Comfort mode, or set it more aggressive and you will feel the different.

Again, maybe you're just talking semantics. My car definitely drives better than stock - it's just not as comfortable when it comes to daily drivability. It's absolutely fine, but I can definitely feel the difference. It sounds like maybe you're on softer progressive springs, more akin to what the CTR has stock? I went from 4k in the rear to 10k linear in the rear - yeah, you can definitely feel it heh.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I am not saying Ohlins Road and Track are true racing coilovers like a JRZ or an Ohlins TTX. I am just saying that they are using more track oriented linear springs.

 

[Tougefl5]

I think you might be confused - the Ohlins Road and Track coilovers, at least for the CTR platform, use single rate linear springs in both the front and the rear, with a much higher spring rate in the rear to reduce all the understeer. I don't know exactly what you mean by "corner flat", but my car, with it's current dampening/rebound/compression and ride height, handles pretty neutrally, almost like an AWD car.

I mentioned NVH because OP and I, at least in my opinion, were talking about comfort levels, and generally when people are talking about comfort within the context of daily drivability, they're talking, at least in part, about NVH. I would posit that if your car does indeed handle road imperfections like a stock CTR in Comfort mode - if driving around in your car feels comfy and soft in the cabin and on the steering and the body roll like stock Comfort mode - then it doesn't handle as well as mine does - like, not even remotely.

As I said before, my car is currently setup to be pretty stiff - my fronts are 5 clicks from closed, which is track setting territory. I could probably move the fronts out to 20 clicks and it would probably feel more like a cloud, but as I said before, they're not easy to adjust (again, my opinion), so you have to make a choice - set it soft so you can replicate that Comfort mode, or set it more aggressive and you will feel the different.

Again, maybe you're just talking semantics. My car definitely drives better than stock - it's just not as comfortable when it comes to daily drivability. It's absolutely fine, but I can definitely feel the difference. It sounds like maybe you're on softer progressive springs, more akin to what the CTR has stock? I went from 4k in the rear to 10k linear in the rear - yeah, you can definitely feel it heh.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I am not saying Ohlins Road and Track are true racing coilovers like a JRZ or an Ohlins TTX. I am just saying that they are using more track oriented linear springs.

Please show me where ohlins rt doesn't use progressive springs.

 

[matttheazn]

I am not really too concerned with NVH increase. Already battled the most of the cabin rattles. I am mostly looking for better handling on bumpy roads. I would like the car to feel more planted when it hits a dip in the road, and not skip across. On my last Autox I was bouncing across the parking lot due to how bumpy it was and I literally had no traction. Probably should just try out the type s damper module as a cheap test.

 

[chadwicke619]

I am not really too concerned with NVH increase. Already battled the most of the cabin rattles. I am mostly looking for better handling on bumpy roads. I would like the car to feel more planted when it hits a dip in the road, and not skip across. On my last Autox I was bouncing across the parking lot due to how bumpy it was and I literally had no traction. Probably should just try out the type s damper module as a cheap test.

That is an area where the coilovers really shine IMO. The high speed dampening is pretty fabulous, at least on the Ohlins, and I do feel like the car is much better at keeping its feet on the ground when it's really being driven.

As an aside, I wonder if maybe the skipping you're talking about isn't necessarily an issue with the suspension - it sounds like the nannies and/or the ABS might be tripping you up. I remember on my first few track days I would complain to guys about how it felt like I was skipping, and maybe dragging the rear a little bit, but when I started turning off the nannies, it made a huge difference.

 

[matttheazn]

That is an area where the coilovers really shine IMO. The high speed dampening is pretty fabulous, at least on the Ohlins, and I do feel like the car is much better at keeping its feet on the ground when it's really being driven.

As an aside, I wonder if maybe the skipping you're talking about isn't necessarily an issue with the suspension - it sounds like the nannies and/or the ABS might be tripping you up. I remember on my first few track days I would complain to guys about how it felt like I was skipping, and maybe dragging the rear a little bit, but when I started turning off the nannies, it made a huge difference.

I was in long press vsa off. no pedal dance. tried both individual mode and type r.

 

[chadwicke619]

I was in long press vsa off. no pedal dance. tried both individual mode and type r.

I mean, to be totally honest, I got coilovers for the exact reason you describe, more or less. It just felt like the traction wasn't there. It felt like I would hit a bump and suddenly that corner would feel momentarily light, traction loss, ick. Most of the good coilovers seem to have some variation on what Ohlins calls DFV, which I think is dual flow valve. It basically means that when you're being aggressive and accelerating and stuff, the oil inside behaves in such a way that the valve opens up so when you hit bumps it allows the wheel/tire to rebound and be immediately pushed back down, rather than remaining closed, not rebounding, staying stiff, and going into the air.

EDIT: "Rebound" is probably the wrong word to use in some spots. Car go fast, valve open, tire go up down, but not entire car... go slow, valve stays closed, everything go up down now.

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