New to CTR - impressions log. What do I need to know?

[Torsion]

My last few performance cars:

2013 Nissan GT-R
2015 Nissan GT-R Nismo
2017 Ford Focus RS
2019 Porsche GT3RS
2020 Lotus Evora GT
2024 Honda Civic Type R

I’ve tracked all of these cars.

The GT-R overheated on the track and was big and heavy, tough on tires and brakes.

The GT-R Nismo was likely my second favorite on the list. It felt really special, and was much more nimble than the 2013, but I found trough a sub-10 MPH rear end collision how expensive the body parts were. Nearly $15k and 6+ months waiting for a small carbon piece damaged by a 3-series BMW told me this is not the ideal track car.

The Focus RS overheated the rear-diff on track. Heavily modified, it was a GREAT street car with a terrible interior. I miss this one a bit but it was never going to be a reliable track car.

The GT3RS was a “dream car” until I owned it. It was perfect on the street and canyon roads (sound, look, feel, performance). I never meshed with it on the track. The center lock wheels, the carbon brakes, the ridiculously expensive body parts made me not want to deal with it on the track. I also never got along well with the rear wheel steering at 8/10+.

The Lotus was incredible, but parts were extremely difficult to source (cracked windshield required 6 month wait, brake sensor failed twice, etc). The car never let me down on the track. It felt as special as the Porsche and Nismo, and split between the two in rawness and feel. The manual transmission was a big drawback, with a nearly impossible 4-2 shift under load at my local track in a key corner. It was soft on tires and brakes and handled extremely well.

The FL5 has been really great on track and feels special enough for daily driving. It feels like the GT3RS and Focus RS combined. It has the best bespoke feeling of the GT3RS (interior, brakes, steering) with the raw fun of the Focus RS.

I seriously debated going for a GT4 (gearing too tall) or a GT4RS (I wanted a manual) before picking the FL5. I don’t regret it at all.

I currently have a 991.2 GT3RS and a GT4 RS. Previously had a 981 GT4, among other cars. Have tracked them all.

For me, the GT3 RS is the best car I've ever driven on road and track, absolutely sublime. My wife loves it too. Yes, expensive body parts, but that's not a problem if you don't break them.

I'm loving the FL5 CTR on the road, really does feel like a FWD Porsche GT car. I'll try tracking it, but I don't see it becoming my primary track car.

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[CG13]

I currently have a 991.2 GT3RS and a GT4 RS. Previously had a 981 GT4, among other cars. Have tracked them all.

For me, the GT3 RS is the best car I've ever driven on road and track, absolutely sublime. My wife loves it too. Yes, expensive body parts, but that's not a problem if you don't break them.

I'm loving the FL5 CTR on the road, really does feel like a FWD Porsche GT car. I'll try tracking it, but I don't see it becoming my primary track car.

I really enjoyed the GT3RS on the road. If I was going to track regularly I would have needed to replace the wheels and brakes, eliminating some of what I liked on the road. I never experienced any body damage but after going through it with the Nismo GT-R it just seemed like to pricey a car for me to be tracking.

 

[Torsion]

I really enjoyed the GT3RS on the road. If I was going to track regularly I would have needed to replace the wheels and brakes, eliminating some of what I liked on the road. I never experienced any body damage but after going through it with the Nismo GT-R it just seemed like to pricey a car for me to be tracking.

What's the issue with the wheels and brakes? My car is factory stock, didn't even change alignment or aero, and it feels perfect to me on both road and track.

 

[CG13]

What's the issue with the wheels and brakes? My car is factory stock, didn't even change alignment or aero, and it feels perfect to me on both road and track.

If tracking frequently the center lock wheels are a pain. No easy tire changes, wheel changes or even checking torque.

Mine had carbon ceramic brakes. They are great on the street, no dust, great bite, not very noisy. On track they don’t last and are extremely expensive to replace. Rotor wear isn’t easy to check the way steel rotors are.

Also my car’s track handling seemed very sensitive to tire pressure with the Cup 2 tires, specifically when ambient temps were high. I’ve never had to make so many adjustments to keep it feeling normal. This never came up in 3 years on the street.

For a few laps, taking it easy, the car was great. Anything more and the cost made it a poor choice for me for that purpose.

 

[Torsion]

If tracking frequently the center lock wheels are a pain. No easy tire changes, wheel changes or even checking torque.

Mine had carbon ceramic brakes. They are great on the street, no dust, great bite, not very noisy. On track they don’t last and are extremely expensive to replace. Rotor wear isn’t easy to check the way steel rotors are.

Also my car’s track handling seemed very sensitive to tire pressure with the Cup 2 tires, specifically when ambient temps were high. I’ve never had to make so many adjustments to keep it feeling normal. This never came up in 3 years on the street.

For a few laps, taking it easy, the car was great. Anything more and the cost made it a poor choice for me for that purpose.

I have the shop change the tires, so dealing with the wheels hasn't been an issue. The centerlocks lock, so no need to check torque after they're torqued and locked.

I have carbon ceramics also. The pads last a reasonably long time. The rotors should last about 50 track days, and then, yes, will be about $30k to replace. Tracking a quarter million dollar car ain't cheap!

With Cup 2, you want to be around 32-33 psi hot. After a few laps near the limit, the grip will fall off some, but this is a characteristic of the tires rather than the car. But I find the car to feel really good even after the tires have fallen off somewhat.

For me, the main deterrent to tracking the car is the overall cost. A 718 GT4 that's set up well isn't a lot slower than the 3RS and is about half the cost.

 

[optronix]

FWIW, that website and Steven Machett's that we all heavily relied on at some point are effectively defunct and have been for months. Apparently Honda changed the API endpoints and the complete and accurate dataset is no longer available and/or reliable.

You have Team FL5, Team DE5, and you have Team FL5/DE5. The reality is people are in their camps and I expect them to stay there. I also expect these camps to become more tribal as time passes and these cars are no longer in production.

Fair enough. There's probably an alternative way to get that data- may or may not be publicly available and accessible. It doesn't really make sense that the endpoints are still live in some fashion but not as accurate as it used to be but Honda controls that narrative, and if there isn't a business justification to make sure the data is available and reliable then the effort won't be taken and no one should be surprised. It was just... something because I like bringing at least some sort of science to the conversation. Didn't work, moving on...

The reasonable approach is everyone is Team FL5/DE5. It will continue to be a pet peeve of mine anytime anyone- on either side- tries to suggest any inherent advantage beyond their own subjective tastes. I'll say it one more time- they're the same car and they're both excellent. We all should just acknowledge that because it's factually accurate.

I won't argue against the magic of this platform- it's truly astonishing how good the car is and it is absolutely worthy of all the praise heaped on it from people who are familiar with cars widely considered to be far "superior" from a prestige/price/performance perspective. It's great we get to choose between two variants.

But the whole "rivalry" thing needs to go away. Phrases like "not by a longshot" will continue to trigger me- and they should trigger everyone because it's just nonsensical to say that for a car that has literally identical running gear.

I've thought the whole Playstation vs Xbox thing was head scratching, this FL5 vs DE5 conversation takes that to another level.

Ok I'm done.

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