• Welcome to CivicXI.com everyone!

    If you're joining us from CivicX.com, then you may already have an account here!

    As long as you were registered on CivicX.com as of May 24, 2020 or earlier, then you can simply login here with the same username and password!

Something not being talked about much

gtman

Senior Member
First Name
Mitch
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Threads
64
Messages
5,294
Reaction score
962
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2017 Cosmic Blue EX-L Sedan
The 10th gen 1.5T non-Si models (even though officially rated as less powerful than the 11th version), are in reality, much more potent than the newer version. Those nearly 8 second 0-60 times compared to the mid to high 6 seconds tests from the 10th are a massive difference.

There are plenty of dynos out there from reliable sources like TSP, Phearable and Hondata that show this.

The big question is, why did Honda do this? I've heard it's all about emissions and better gas mileage but I don't see a huge uptick in mpg ratings.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm not interested in my next car being slower than my current one.

Just a strange decision by Honda.
Sponsored

 

HawaiiPunch

Senior Member
First Name
Will
Joined
Apr 25, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
86
Reaction score
87
Location
Canada, GTA
Vehicle(s)
2023 Elantra N
The 10th gen 1.5T non-Si models (even though officially rated as less powerful than the 11th version), are in reality, much more potent than the newer version. Those nearly 8 second 0-60 times compared to the mid to high 6 seconds tests from the 10th are a massive difference.

There are plenty of dynos out there from reliable sources like TSP, Phearable and Hondata that show this.

The big question is, why did Honda do this? I've heard it's all about emissions and better gas mileage but I don't see a huge uptick in mpg ratings.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm not interested in my next car being slower than my current one.

Just a strange decision by Honda.
Unfortunately, you are in the minority I’d say. It is for emissions and fuel economy. At the end of the day it’s an econobox. Being a bit slower in its 0-60 doesn’t really matter to them, because most people will buy it for reliability and being cheap on fuel. The Si and Type R are a different story, but this is their entry model now.
 

RobbJK

Senior Member
First Name
Robb
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Threads
1
Messages
296
Reaction score
284
Location
Columbus, OH
Vehicle(s)
2019 Honda Civic EX Coupe
While it doesn't matter to the majority of consumers that the civic is aimed at... it's probably the biggest knock against the 11th gen for me... when my stock 19' EX coupe easily pulls 6.5-6.7 to 60 going to an almost 8 second time seems like stepping back to my 8th and 9th gen civics... and as gtman said, it seems like a step backwards for a new gen when they netted themselves MAYBE 1mpg across the board. If they really cared that much they should just put the accord hybrid setup in the upper trims with 200hp... make the 1.5T the standard lower trim engine... better efficiency AND better performance across the lineup.

I'm now waiting to see what comes of the new Integra... if it impresses and comes in at a reasonable price point, I'll go that route. If not, keeping my 19' and doing some light mods will be a better and cheaper option for me until something better comes along.

And yea... you can tune the new civic... but output goes up to like 197hp, versus the 10th gen tune that goes up to 205hp and weighs less... between factors like price increase, weight gain, decontenting the lower trims, slower straight line speed, the so-so styling, and lack of a coupe model makes keeping my 19' seem like the smart decision, and I can enjoy doing some mods and improvements to it to make it even better than it already is.
 

KTuner

Senior Member
First Name
J.R.
Joined
Jul 10, 2017
Threads
4
Messages
1,709
Reaction score
257
Location
Chandler, Arizona
Website
www.KTuner.com
Vehicle(s)
2017 Si
You guys are comparing the current dynos for the '22, which are all CVT and suffer more losses, to dynos from the 10th gen, which are all going to be MT. Wait for the MT to come out and let's see how they stack up apples to apples from these companies.

I'd be curious what times these are running tuned, too.
 

360glitch

Moderator
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Threads
35
Messages
2,386
Reaction score
172
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2017 Civic Si Sedan
You guys are comparing the current dynos for the '22, which are all CVT and suffer more losses, to dynos from the 10th gen, which are all going to be MT. Wait for the MT to come out and let's see how they stack up apples to apples from these companies.

I'd be curious what times these are running tuned, too.
Hopefully we will have some 6MT hatchback data soon.
 


RobbJK

Senior Member
First Name
Robb
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Threads
1
Messages
296
Reaction score
284
Location
Columbus, OH
Vehicle(s)
2019 Honda Civic EX Coupe
You guys are comparing the current dynos for the '22, which are all CVT and suffer more losses, to dynos from the 10th gen, which are all going to be MT. Wait for the MT to come out and let's see how they stack up apples to apples from these companies.

I'd be curious what times these are running tuned, too.
The first dynos of the 10th gens were with the CVT, I remember seeing them because the initial numbers were a little weird due to how the CVT behaves on a dyno, the 11th gen is still a significant downgrade in base power output compared to the 10th gens comparing apples to apples. The manual may be slightly better than the CVT, but I suspect it'll still be an equal downgrade for the manual compared to the 10th gen manual. Less power, less potential, more weight, Honda chose refinement and premium feel over outright performance for this gen.
 

Saywhaat04

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Threads
5
Messages
200
Reaction score
167
Location
nowhere
Vehicle(s)
nothing
The 10th gen 1.5T non-Si models (even though officially rated as less powerful than the 11th version), are in reality, much more potent than the newer version. Those nearly 8 second 0-60 times compared to the mid to high 6 seconds tests from the 10th are a massive difference.

There are plenty of dynos out there from reliable sources like TSP, Phearable and Hondata that show this.

The big question is, why did Honda do this? I've heard it's all about emissions and better gas mileage but I don't see a huge uptick in mpg ratings.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm not interested in my next car being slower than my current one.

Just a strange decision by Honda.
The INTEGRA would be my guess honestly...dont want that pesky lil Civic Sport Touring pulling a faster 0 to 60 or close to it to the Integra...just look up all the TLX 2.0T vs Accord 2.0t races and IMO there lies ur answer.
 
OP
OP
gtman

gtman

Senior Member
First Name
Mitch
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Threads
64
Messages
5,294
Reaction score
962
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2017 Cosmic Blue EX-L Sedan
You guys are comparing the current dynos for the '22, which are all CVT and suffer more losses, to dynos from the 10th gen, which are all going to be MT. Wait for the MT to come out and let's see how they stack up apples to apples from these companies.

I'd be curious what times these are running tuned, too.
JR... go back and look at the early dynos from Hondata and others. The 2016 dynos. There were no manuals. All those early dynos were CVT. The 11th numbers are much lower on Hondata's dyno. They use the same one at Church's for all the tests.

All the aftermarket guys like TSP, PRL, 27Won etc. have said these new cars have potential but out of the box are less potent. 7.9 vs. 6.6 to 60 (CVT) doesn't lie.

These are the 10th gen 1.5 Hondata published CVT dyno numbers:
11th Gen Honda Civic Something not being talked about much 17_civic_cvt_stock_87_oct_vs_91_octane_plus_6_ps


Hondata's 2022 published dyno for comparison:
11th Gen Honda Civic Something not being talked about much 22-civic-1.5-hondata-flashpro-release-91-octane-500x500-01


Untuned (yellow), the difference is substantial. Tuned (green), things are closer but the 10th still is more potent.

TSP just published their numbers. 154/163 for the 11th 1.5 motor. It's clearly much less potent stock than the 10th.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: RMR
OP
OP
gtman

gtman

Senior Member
First Name
Mitch
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Threads
64
Messages
5,294
Reaction score
962
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2017 Cosmic Blue EX-L Sedan
Honda chose refinement and premium feel over outright performance for this gen.
Only one thing would make this a somewhat logical move for Honda from a performance POV.

The last gen acceleration numbers between the non-Si CVT turbos and the Si were minimal. Literally a few 10th's 0-60. Now with the 11th sedans only seeing numbers in the high 7's, if the new Si does 0-60 in the low 6's or better, people looking for a performance sedan would 100% jump on the Si.

With the 10th, that distinction was a little murkier.
 


OP
OP
gtman

gtman

Senior Member
First Name
Mitch
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Threads
64
Messages
5,294
Reaction score
962
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2017 Cosmic Blue EX-L Sedan
Would not compare CVT model to CVT model as a direct comparison, was my point.
Isn't the huge difference in 0-60 times a fair comparison? Maybe not scientific but lets face it, it's press the throttle to the floor. Not much driver skill involved. Sure there may be some environmental stuff. But every test I've seen has been a second slower.

The 11th is a great car. Just disappointed the power took a step back. But, nothing a KTuner and tune can't fix. ;)

https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/tested-2022-honda-civic-is-slower-but-still-our-favorite.html
 
Last edited:

tacthecat

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Threads
3
Messages
836
Reaction score
74
Location
Cheshire, MA
Vehicle(s)
'12 Civic Si Sedan
The 10th gen 1.5T non-Si models (even though officially rated as less powerful than the 11th version), are in reality, much more potent than the newer version. Those nearly 8 second 0-60 times compared to the mid to high 6 seconds tests from the 10th are a massive difference.
Read the C/D comparison - they list a 7.2 0-60 and the best of the bunch for the current crop of sedans.
 
OP
OP
gtman

gtman

Senior Member
First Name
Mitch
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Threads
64
Messages
5,294
Reaction score
962
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2017 Cosmic Blue EX-L Sedan
I just saw. That's the fastest time I've seen. Still a 1/2 second slower than C&D's 10th gen time.

A little deceiving on the comparison with the Elantra. They should have tested the N-Line model with the turbo to be fair.
Sponsored

 
 




Top