Racing the FL5 Type R with all OEM spec parts on Laguna Seca

[johnloov]

Hi Everyone,

Let's find out -- How fast and reliable is the FL5 Type R with using only OEM parts.

The goal is to only use OEM Spec everything and find out the limits at Laguna Seca. For me, I'd like to find out what are the stock limits of the FL5 Type R, and that's where I want to leave it.

OEM Oil, OEM Brake Pads, OEM Rotors, OEM wheels, all OEM Fluids, OEM Spec Tires 4s & Cup 2, OEM suspension - Only adjust suspension as far as factory specs - Camber with Pins removed, toe etc.

I know many people start doing engine mods, then overheating, then they upgrade the pads to higher metallic compounds, and then the rotors get chewed up fast, then they get new rotors, then the Brembo calipers get so hot the paint fades, then you're into brake lines, oil coolers, downpipes, etc...... It never ends...

Then there are those that don't do any engine mods and are running 1.38's at Laguna Seca, with just suspension and pads.

There are many that have abused these cars with using 0-20W oil and have over 200,000 miles on the same engine.

I'm okay with changing the OEM oils/fluids more often, and I'm okay changing the OEM brake pads more often, and I'm okay with not cooking the brakes on my laps, and driving a smoother line and gaining faster lap times that way. I'm okay with to getting the lightweight OEM rims and wrapping them with the OEM customized CUP2's. The OEM Brake fluid is even race fluid stock, is my understanding talking to some racers - and some on the forums also confirm it's Dot 4.

At some point, I gotta trust the engineers did some serious testing with these configurations.

We know there are many that have abused these cars with using 0-20W oil and have over 200,000 miles on the same engine. We know they made the TYPE R suspension dampeners stiff, and many, like me see zero reason to change out the dampeners to the Type S. It's an overblown issue many people told me on track at Laguna Seca. My car drove extremely well in Type R mode on Track and it drives extremely well on Comfort.

Let's see what this OEM car can do stock.

So let's start with the first modification - Suspension:

What's the best proven suspension OEM Alignment Setup for Laguna Seca or a Race Track w camber pins removed in front?

Toe 0 on Front and that's it?
Or
Do I slightly Toe out .05-.1% on the front for better turn in?
Don't touch the rear factory alignment?

What's the proven OEM best suspension setup with pins removed>
Let's find out!

"Should FWD be toe in or out?


Toe In. Running toe in on the front wheels of a front wheel drive car will again increase the grip within the front tyres due to the increased slip angle in the tyre. This increases the acceleration of the car due to the increased grip in the driven tyres. "


Who's got the advice/answers and data?

Much appreciated!

Sponsored

 

[madbikes]

The OEM Brake fluid is even race fluid stock, is my understanding talking to some racers - and some on the forums also confirm it's Dot 4

Very interesting that you say OEM Brake Fluid is race fluid stock.

Not all DOT 4 brake fluid are created equal. Castro SRF is DOT 4, has a Dry/Wet boiling point of 617F/518F , which is much higher than what you can get from Honda.

I understand you want to keep everything stock and leave it at that, but please do yourself a huge favor and change to some actual high-temp brake fluid like Castro SRF/Motul 660 when you plan to do HPDE. I did manage to boil stock DOT 4 brake fluid on a different vehicle during HPDE and head home of with a slightly soft brake pedal.

 

[ToddR]

Very interesting that you say OEM Brake Fluid is race fluid stock.

Not all DOT 4 brake fluid are created equal. Castro SRF is DOT 4, has a Dry/Wet boiling point of 617F/518F , which is much higher than what you can get from Honda.

I understand you want to keep everything stock and leave it at that, but please do yourself a huge favor and change to some actual high-temp brake fluid like Castro SRF/Motul 660 when you plan to do HPDE. I did manage to boil stock DOT 4 brake fluid on a different vehicle during HPDE and head home of with a slightly soft brake pedal.

I agree on this. I like your approach but would omit OEM fluids as I believe there are much better brake and engine oils

 

[hhkb]

Very interesting that you say OEM Brake Fluid is race fluid stock.

Not all DOT 4 brake fluid are created equal. Castro SRF is DOT 4, has a Dry/Wet boiling point of 617F/518F , which is much higher than what you can get from Honda.

I understand you want to keep everything stock and leave it at that, but please do yourself a huge favor and change to some actual high-temp brake fluid like Castro SRF/Motul 660 when you plan to do HPDE. I did manage to boil stock DOT 4 brake fluid on a different vehicle during HPDE and head home of with a slightly soft brake pedal.

Agreed here!

 

[johnloov]

Thanks for the feedback. This is what I was told about the stock brake fluid. My brakes still feel great. I’m not
Into threshold braking. I haven't cooked my brakes yet, but once I do, will potentially try better DOT 4.

What about the best suspension alignment settings for the FL5 with camber pins out?

 

[MadMage]

Thanks for the feedback. This is what I was told about the stock brake fluid. My brakes still feel great. I’m not
Into threshold braking. I haven't cooked my brakes yet, but once I do, will potentially try better DOT 4.

Upgrade your fluid BEFORE you boil it. Once you boil it you will find out by not being able to brake. You will be lucky if that means you do not end up in a wall or another car.

 

[evlsmurf]

What brake fluid are you guys running?

 

[johnloov]

Upgrade your fluid BEFORE you boil it. Once you boil it you will find out by not being able to brake. You will be lucky if that means you do not end up in a wall or another car.

Thanks for the feedback.

Curious, when you boiled your fluids last time, were you pressing them all the way down to max 14 PSI, or will you boil the brakes even at half the pressure. I'm noticing I never hit max PSI in my laps at Laguna Seca.

Is there a way to test, easily the condition of my brake fluid with a brake fluid water tester?

 

[madbikes]

The more I read it, the more it doesn't make sense

The goal is to only use OEM Spec everything and find out the limits at Laguna Seca. For me, I'd like to find out what are the stock limits of the FL5 Type R, and that's where I want to leave it.

OP, is your actual goal trying to do HPDE and take it easy? Or you plan to do Time Trial? There is nothing wrong keeping most of the things stock, but I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve here. How often do you plan to drive on a race track?

If you are trying to do HPDE and want to change the minimum, here's my recommendation.

-Replace the stock DOT4 brake fluid to any hi-temp brake fluid of your choice (Castro SRF is a great one)
-Replace the stock flexible brake hoses with Stainless Steel braded brake lines
-If you are taking rather easy the OEM PS4S is ok, but not suited for frequent track driving. You said you are ok with switching to Cup 2. Do that.


-Swap to better pads that are up to the task. Yes, you can run stock pads. But, if your driving reaches its limit, you still can't avoid having to use higher temp brake brakes that will be up to the task. It only took an outlap to get excessive pad material transfer (drives like warped rotors) at my first HPDE at Laguna Seca on my last car. It had tiny brakes and stock OEM street pads. Less the fact I upgraded to a big brake kit, I changed to a more suitable brake pad. Ran HPDE without issues ever since.
-perform good track alignment

After that go out there and drive until you need something aftermarket to help you stay on track longer and more consistent.

 

[johnloov]

Do you have your track alignment settings - can you share please?

-perform good track alignment

 

[madbikes]

Thanks for the feedback.

Curious, when you boiled your fluids last time, were you pressing them all the way down to max 14 PSI, or will you boil the brakes even at half the pressure. I'm noticing I never hit max PSI in my laps at Laguna Seca.

Is there a way to test, easily the condition of my brake fluid with a brake fluid water tester?

It doesn't matter how hard you are on the brakes. As soon as you notice you have a soft pedal, stop. You don't want to drive around with a soft brake pedal (boiled brake fluid).

Even people who go on track on a somewhat regular basis change their brake fluid every certain amount of track days, just to keep the brake fluid fresh (every 5-6 track days or whenever you see fit as long as you don't have a soft pedal/pedal feeling very soft)

General brake fluid maintenance is once every two years (often not mentioned in Japanese cars). If you do track and a fair amount of spirited mountain driving that will get the brake fluid hot, change more frequently

 

[007]

Very interesting that you say OEM Brake Fluid is race fluid stock.

Not all DOT 4 brake fluid are created equal. Castro SRF is DOT 4, has a Dry/Wet boiling point of 617F/518F , which is much higher than what you can get from Honda.

I understand you want to keep everything stock and leave it at that, but please do yourself a huge favor and change to some actual high-temp brake fluid like Castro SRF/Motul 660 when you plan to do HPDE. I did manage to boil stock DOT 4 brake fluid on a different vehicle during HPDE and head home of with a slightly soft brake pedal.

This.

SRF is a game-changer, arguably the best brake fluid upgrade you can get for the price.

 

[madbikes]

I do plan to go HPDE with my FL5, but not this soon yet.

 

[madbikes]

Is there a way to test, easily the condition of my brake fluid with a brake fluid water tester?

You can buy brake fluid tester to check water content. If I track my car more than a few times a year, I'd change soon

 

[johnloov]

I just had my TOE IN check on the front. It's 1/16 inches Toe IN, which is usual for OEM's. I don't know if removing the camber pins made it toe in, as I don't know what the stock OEM toe in was set to.

Does anyone know stock alignment, is it Toe set to Zero?


Still need help with recommendations on the RACE Alignment on STOCK FL5 Suspension with pins removed.

I may simply just go ahead and mark the tire rods in front with a marker, and try to Toe out a Quarter Turn to get them close to zero, and maybe half a turn to see how it feels slightly toed out.

Advice appreciated.

Sponsored