Trading in Brand new Si for Type R

[keitel]

Last night was the nail in the SI's coffin, went for late night drive and had a little fun on an open road, when out came this young woman in a crossover who smoked the shit out of me. We werent racing but my god, i was secretly trying to keep up. Tried everything. Flatulent Boost at 30 PSI. Nothing. Dusted. I Laughed. . but im pretty sure the Car Gods placed her there just to encourage this deal.

Bought the SI off 33k out the door( financed then paid off before the bill even showed up). Cancelling the Extended warranty first thing tomorrow and countering a couple shit-heel offers from dealers.

So far Carmax offered 30k whereas the dealers wanted 26/27ish. The sales tax on 48.5 pretty much evens out the loss with the trade-in tax gain. denied the 27k offer and he responded via text with "youre not even going to counter?" which opens up some negotiating room tomorrow. Another dealer didnt even offer "i know youre looking for the higher end of a trade so were gonna have to pass".

The out of state (NJ) dealers seemed more willing to play ball. If i can get them to atleast 28.5k i might bite, prob the best im gonna get without flushing myself down the toilet. I got the leverage to finance the remaining balance then pay that off the next day so we shall see.

appreciate yous all for the replies.

Sponsored

 

[22Si]

Last night was the nail in the SI's coffin, went for late night drive and had a little fun on an open road, when out came this young woman in a crossover who smoked the shit out of me. We werent racing but my god, i was secretly trying to keep up. Tried everything. Flatulent Boost at 30 PSI. Nothing. Dusted. I Laughed. . but im pretty sure the Car Gods placed her there just to encourage this deal.

Bought the SI off 33k out the door( financed then paid off before the bill even showed up). Cancelling the Extended warranty first thing tomorrow and countering a couple shit-heel offers from dealers.

So far Carmax offered 30k whereas the dealers wanted 26/27ish. The sales tax on 48.5 pretty much evens out the loss with the trade-in tax gain. denied the 27k offer and he responded via text with "youre not even going to counter?" which opens up some negotiating room tomorrow. Another dealer didnt even offer "i know youre looking for the higher end of a trade so were gonna have to pass".

The out of state (NJ) dealers seemed more willing to play ball. If i can get them to atleast 28.5k i might bite, prob the best im gonna get without flushing myself down the toilet. I got the leverage to finance the remaining balance then pay that off the next day so we shall see.

appreciate yous all for the replies.

One thing I'll tell you but there's always someone faster stronger richer smarter than you. Comparison is the thief of joy.

You know your finances and what you can afford and what you can afford to lose work the deal, do what you can.

Also understand that the type R is a lot faster than the SI but it is not a drag strip track car. Good luck on the deal!

 

[22Si]

Also the FL5 is a thief magnet unfortunately and easily stolen. If you live in NYC, be very aware and get an immobilizer

 

[keitel]

One thing I'll tell you but there's always someone faster stronger richer smarter than you. Comparison is the thief of joy.

You know your finances and what you can afford and what you can afford to lose work the deal, do what you can.

Also understand that the type R is a lot faster than the SI but it is not a drag strip track car. Good luck on the deal!

For sure, i dont street race but the timing couldnt be perfect.

Thank you!

 

[Cueyo]

Last night was the nail in the SI's coffin, went for late night drive and had a little fun on an open road, when out came this young woman in a crossover who smoked the shit out of me. We werent racing but my god, i was secretly trying to keep up. Tried everything. Flatulent Boost at 30 PSI. Nothing. Dusted. I Laughed. . but im pretty sure the Car Gods placed her there just to encourage this deal.

You seemed pretty dead set on trading in for the type R anyways, but I'll tell you nothing will change in terms of people dusting you off the line. I've had good, even amazing launches off the line and been beaten by people with 100 less horsepower and an automatic transmission. I have to aggressively redline shift to beat the family of 4 in their dinky Malibu, but man does it feel better than a dinky malibu. If horsepower is what you care for and feeling like you're fast, I think a dct sports car like an Elantra N is more your speed.

 

[keitel]

You seemed pretty dead set on trading in for the type R anyways, but I'll tell you nothing will change in terms of people dusting you off the line. I've had good, even amazing launches off the line and been beaten by people with 100 less horsepower and an automatic transmission. I have to aggressively redline shift to beat the family of 4 in their dinky Malibu, but man does it feel better than a dinky malibu. If horsepower is what you care for and feeling like you're fast, I think a dct sports car like an Elantra N is more your speed.

Im only in it for the weekend road trips in search of twisties.. not only that, it gets the same mileage as my gti with 115 less horses. Baffling.

 

[optronix]

I'll counter what some folks are saying about the power. No, it is absolutely not a drag car. But it has PLENTY of power for the street. I'd argue the Si does not.

Perspective- I just bought an ND3 Miata. It's a blast to drive- but is intentionally slow for a sports car with 180 naturally aspirated horsepower. Don't get me wrong, that's exactly why I bought it- there's a wonderful appeal to dropping the top and putting your foot to the floor on public roads that you can't really do in any other car without going to jail.

But you're not buying a Miata... my point is that after driving the ND3 for a couple hours and hopping back into my DE5, it feels like a fucking rocket ship. There are still SUVs that will destroy you at a stoplight (my wife's Macan GTS does 0-60 in less than 4 seconds)... but that's not the point. The point is that when you put your foot down, the car moves the way you want it to. An Si demonstrably does not do that as well, and it makes a huge difference.

Plus all the other intangibles. Honestly, the Si is for a different type of enthusiast purpose. It's a "lively daily", not a genuine sports car like the FL5/DE5.

Yes, it's a genuine Sports Car. I'll argue that with anyone, and I feel I have an advantage because I've owned a few really good ones.

 

[TW00Si]

Buy the type R. Break it in and take it to Lime Rock, NJMP, Thompson, Palmer or Watkins Glen Int. See what the car can do

 

[Cueyo]

I'll counter what some folks are saying about the power. No, it is absolutely not a drag car. But it has PLENTY of power for the street. I'd argue the Si does not.

You're right, but I think there's some nuance here. In the type R, a front wheel drive sports car with a manual transmission, it's more than enough. Compared to absolutely anything with an automatic transmission or a different drive configuration, it starts lagging behind. I think that's an important distinction to be made, especially given that OP brought up that explicitly in context.

Id actually argue that the SI meets the definition of a sports car better (technically the only car that really meets the definition is a Miata) than the Type R given what they focus on. Type R has a much larger track focus, SI is more about fun and dynamics. The biggest shock I've had driving other cars like the Elantra N or the civic SI is just how much the car wants to kick out on the rear and much more "alive" the dynamics of driving feel to the composed type R.

Just so we're clear, i don't disagree the type R is a sports car, I'm looking at this from the traditional sports car definition that defined it as a two door, convertible (specifically a top down roadster) , that's light weight, has responsive steering, doesn't focus on utility but rather driving dynamics and feel (horsepower was never really a focus when this definition was made). By those metrics the type R has more utility (hatch), mostly numb steering feel, definitely not two doors (neither does the si here lol), is heavier, and is more focused on being as neutral as possible while driving.

 

[optronix]

You're right, but I think there's some nuance here. In the type R, a front wheel drive sports car with a manual transmission, it's more than enough. Compared to absolutely anything with an automatic transmission or a different drive configuration, it starts lagging behind. I think that's an important distinction to be made, especially given that OP brought up that explicitly in context.

Id actually argue that the SI meets the definition of a sports car better (technically the only car that really meets the definition is a Miata) than the Type R given what they focus on. Type R has a much larger track focus, SI is more about fun and dynamics. The biggest shock I've had driving other cars like the Elantra N or the civic SI is just how much the car wants to kick out on the rear and much more "alive" the dynamics of driving feel to the composed type R.

Just so we're clear, i don't disagree the type R is a sports car, I'm looking at this from the traditional sports car definition that defined it as a two door, convertible (specifically a top down roadster) , that's light weight, has responsive steering, doesn't focus on utility but rather driving dynamics and feel (horsepower was never really a focus when this definition was made). By those metrics the type R has more utility (hatch), mostly numb steering feel, definitely not two doors (neither does the si here lol), is heavier, and is more focused on being as neutral as possible while driving.

I think you're trying too hard to match this "by-the-book definition" you have of what a "sports car" is supposed to be. I think that's nonsense, but I'll concede that my comment left it open to interpretation.

If you want to put a label on it, call it a "driver's car" then, just be aware I do not feel like getting dragged into a semantic debate today.

And I will never understand what some people claim is "numb steering" and somehow apply it to the FL5. You don't know numb steering until you drive an Audi. Any Audi really, but in particular the RS5 is my benchmark. That car (particularly the B9.5 variant, which is what I owned for 6 months) could have been a perfect "sports/driver's car". But the steering literally killed any genuine joy of driving (the transmission didn't help either). That car's MSRP was $78k and was marketed heavily towards an enthusiast market. The FL5/DE5 IMHO is FAR superior to that car in virtually every way- except straight line speed. Which I think gets back to the original point I was trying to make, is that it didn't matter that the RS5 was way faster to 60 and had a few buslengths in a 1/4 mile than an FL5. It's still slower than a Tesla Plaid so who is that car for?

Also I can't reconcile an Si "wanting to kick the rear out" more than an FL5 so maybe I'm just misinterpreting your post.

 

[Cueyo]

I think you're trying too hard to match this "by-the-book definition" you have of what a "sports car" is supposed to be. I think that's nonsense, but I'll concede that my comment left it open to interpretation.

Not at all my own personal definition, actually referencing the original definition made by a 1919 UK paper(the first time the word sports car was ever used). Jason Camisa over on the Hagerty YouTube channel has a really good video about this while discussing Honda's first car (and other "true" sports cars).

Definitions are blurry and I personally just categorize cars into their purpose, the Type R for me is a track focused economy car. Regardless, moot point.

And I will never understand what some people claim is "numb steering" and somehow apply it to the FL5. You don't know numb steering until you drive an Audi. Any Audi really, but in particular the RS5 is my benchmark. That car (particularly the B9.5 variant, which is what I owned for 6 months) could have been a perfect "sports/driver's car". But the steering literally killed any genuine joy of driving (the transmission didn't help either). That car's MSRP was $78k and was marketed heavily towards an enthusiast market. The FL5/DE5 IMHO is FAR superior to that car in virtually every way- except straight line speed. Which I think gets back to the original point I was trying to make, is that it didn't matter that the RS5 was way faster to 60 and had a few buslengths in a 1/4 mile than an FL5. It's still slower than a Tesla Plaid so who is that car for?

I think this is a perspective thing. Every car I've driven (and that a lot of the people who say this) have a different pool of comparison. I have never driven an audi in my life, I've almost exclusively driven Korean, Japanese, and American cars. To me the type R is numb because it stays planted and follows the direction I turn with zero compromises. For me, a Miata is good feedback because the weight and dynamics of the vehicle lets me feel the actual force being applied to the suspension via the steering. Something the type R eliminates through electronics and fancy geometry.

Same applies to the SI comparison. An SI is subjectively more playful and takes less to have the rear break loose in my experience. Which fits my arbitrary personal definition of a sports car better.

At the end of the day, just my opinion and you know what they say about those. I just love talking about this stuff

 

[optronix]

Not at all my own personal definition, actually referencing the original definition made by a 1919 UK paper(the first time the word sports car was ever used). Jason Camisa over on the Hagerty YouTube channel has a really good video about this while discussing Honda's first car (and other "true" sports cars).

Definitions are blurry and I personally just categorize cars into their purpose, the Type R for me is a track focused economy car. Regardless, moot point.



I think this is a perspective thing. Every car I've driven (and that a lot of the people who say this) have a different pool of comparison. I have never driven an audi in my life, I've almost exclusively driven Korean, Japanese, and American cars. To me the type R is numb because it stays planted and follows the direction I turn with zero compromises. For me, a Miata is good feedback because the weight and dynamics of the vehicle lets me feel the actual force being applied to the suspension via the steering. Something the type R eliminates through electronics and fancy geometry.

Same applies to the SI comparison. An SI is subjectively more playful and takes less to have the rear break loose in my experience. Which fits my arbitrary personal definition of a sports car better.

At the end of the day, just my opinion and you know what they say about those. I just love talking about this stuff

I do too but there's a point where it's just chatter. I think we're past that point here... but I'll just say that if you're referencing something from 1919 I think there has been a few notable changes since then.

Sponsored