991.1 carrera 4s. Keep FL5?

[TchnoZ33]

First world problems. I am debating selling my FL5 and getting a 991.1 carrera 4s manual. I’m worried I’m going to miss my type R a lot…love driving it. I know a lot of guys here have Porsches…can anyone give me their experience?

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[hhkb]

Once I’m comfortable with the maintenance costs on a Carrera I’m saying goodbye to the FL5.
Do it!

 

[MrB]

I have been wondering the same thing! My conclusion at the moment is that the 911 may feel more special on a day to day drive or when you look at it on the driveway, but the FL5 will be better/ more special for a proper drive or track.

 

[optronix]

I have been wondering the same thing! My conclusion at the moment is that the 911 may feel more special on a day to day drive or when you look at it on the driveway, but the FL5 will be better/ more special for a proper drive or track.

Let's start to drift back towards reality a bit. The FL5 is a GREAT car. But it is not a Porsche. Am I correct in assuming you haven't driven one?

I've owned several Porsches, and the primary reason I don't own one right now is money. It is as simple as that. The one I traded in for my DE5 was a 718 GTS 4.0; if I could have afforded to keep it I would have. If I didn't need the extra doors, I'd probably still have it. And I'd be lying to myself if I told you I won't be Porsche shopping the minute my youngest son's last semester is paid for...

And that's pretty much where I'll take this conversation. The FL5/DE5 is, in my humble opinion, the absolute best platform for an enthusiast who also needs the practicality to use it every day and the extra space a sedan provides. It's also priced exceptionally well relative to similar cars on the market.

So IF you don't need the extra doors, AND can justify the reduced practicality of owning an out-of-warranty German sports car, then a 991.1 is probably a great option. The only things I'll warn you about is the steering and manual shifter feel from that first generation 991 are a low point in the 911 heritage; they had just gone to the electric steering rack and the 7 speed was derived from the PDK and the execution in that first generation wasn't that great. This is all relative of course, it's still a Porsche... and it is the last generation of the naturally aspirated Carrera (although you still may want to consider finding one with sports exhaust or considering aftermarket; they're fairly quiet stock but the intake noise is undeniable and intoxicating). Also the Porsche "options game" can be maddening- just hang out over on Rennlist for a few days and you'll probably start to understand.

As far as track use, again- it's a Porsche. They're just objectively built to a higher standard, and do not share ANY parts with a commuter platform like the Civic. It's going to be more rewarding, more capable, and more robust for track use- even the 10+ year old cars. Consumables and maintenance will be more expensive though... but reliability will not be a concern. Each generation of cars has their own idiosyncrasies, but as far as I can recall the 991.1+ don't have any worth seriously planning around. They're for all intents and purposes "bulletproof".

Personally I'd actually rather have a 997 but that could just be me. Smaller dimensions, hydraulic steering and better shifter feel- plus subjectively the 997 is just a more "beautiful" 911 to me... but if reliability is a concern then avoid the 997.1 generation (older than 2009); the IMS bearing and bore-scoring issues are overblown on the internet but they are real issues to consider.

Also, are you dead set on the 4/4S? The rear-wheel drive cars are considered more "pure". Not that the 4s are "bad"; just personally I'm a C2/C2S kind of guy.

I have YEARS of obsessive Porsche knowledge stacked up in my brain, so if anyone gets serious about buying a Porsche feel free to use me as a sounding board.

 

[TchnoZ33]

I loved the response! I mean I can afford to keep both but didn’t want to give up that much liquid. I’ll probably just finance more and keep the type R tbh. If I sold the type R, I’d be losing 12k in about just 12 months.

The car I’m looking at is still under CPO until 10/2025 which I’m probably going to extend. Has been kept in great condition. And I have two kids that can both fit in the back…primarily why I wanted a 4 seater. Sad to hear about the manual though lol.

 

[TchnoZ33]

Let's start to drift back towards reality a bit. The FL5 is a GREAT car. But it is not a Porsche. Am I correct in assuming you haven't driven one?

I've owned several Porsches, and the primary reason I don't own one right now is money. It is as simple as that. The one I traded in for my DE5 was a 718 GTS 4.0; if I could have afforded to keep it I would have. If I didn't need the extra doors, I'd probably still have it. And I'd be lying to myself if I told you I won't be Porsche shopping the minute my youngest son's last semester is paid for...

And that's pretty much where I'll take this conversation. The FL5/DE5 is, in my humble opinion, the absolute best platform for an enthusiast who also needs the practicality to use it every day and the extra space a sedan provides. It's also priced exceptionally well relative to similar cars on the market.

So IF you don't need the extra doors, AND can justify the reduced practicality of owning an out-of-warranty German sports car, then a 991.1 is probably a great option. The only things I'll warn you about is the steering and manual shifter feel from that first generation 991 are a low point in the 911 heritage; they had just gone to the electric steering rack and the 7 speed was derived from the PDK and the execution in that first generation wasn't that great. This is all relative of course, it's still a Porsche... and it is the last generation of the naturally aspirated Carrera (although you still may want to consider finding one with sports exhaust or considering aftermarket; they're fairly quiet stock but the intake noise is undeniable and intoxicating). Also the Porsche "options game" can be maddening- just hang out over on Rennlist for a few days and you'll probably start to understand.

As far as track use, again- it's a Porsche. They're just objectively built to a higher standard, and do not share ANY parts with a commuter platform like the Civic. It's going to be more rewarding, more capable, and more robust for track use- even the 10+ year old cars. Consumables and maintenance will be more expensive though... but reliability will not be a concern. Each generation of cars has their own idiosyncrasies, but as far as I can recall the 991.1+ don't have any worth seriously planning around. They're for all intents and purposes "bulletproof".

Personally I'd actually rather have a 997 but that could just be me. Smaller dimensions, hydraulic steering and better shifter feel- plus subjectively the 997 is just a more "beautiful" 911 to me... but if reliability is a concern then avoid the 997.1 generation (older than 2009); the IMS bearing and bore-scoring issues are overblown on the internet but they are real issues to consider.

Also, are you dead set on the 4/4S? The rear-wheel drive cars are considered more "pure". Not that the 4s are "bad"; just personally I'm a C2/C2S kind of guy.

I have YEARS of obsessive Porsche knowledge stacked up in my brain, so if anyone gets serious about buying a Porsche feel free to use me as a sounding board.

these are all the options on the car…really well speced.

 

[optronix]

I loved the response! I mean I can afford to keep both but didn’t want to give up that much liquid. I’ll probably just finance more and keep the type R tbh. If I sold the type R, I’d be losing 12k in about just 12 months.

The car I’m looking at is still under CPO until 10/2025 which I’m probably going to extend. Has been kept in great condition. And I have two kids that can both fit in the back…primarily why I wanted a 4 seater. Sad to hear about the manual though lol.

Again- drive one, because while I'll "trash" the manual, I owned a 991.2 and it was vastly improved. That does not mean the 991.1 was "bad"! It's just the gates can feel a bit mushy because there's 7 forward gears. You'll get used to it.

If you can keep both, that's probably the move. Also consider a Cayman and save some cash. Same situation though- stay newer than 2009 to avoid the IMS issues. 981 Cayman and 991 Carrera are basically the same car from the doors forward! Don't sleep on them if you don't need back seat. You also get a usable trunk in the Cayman that you don't get in the 911- but no you're not going to fit kids in there... but then again, your kids will only fit in a 911 if they're younger than ~8 years or so.

 

[optronix]

these are all the options on the car…really well speced.

That's not bad- for me personally, I vastly prefer the 18-way seats but seats are VERY subjective... and also subjectively I did NOT like the non-sportdesign steering wheels in the 991.1 cars, so that's a huge plus there for you.

Overall I don't think it's possible for anyone to not enjoy that car lol. But also deeply consider a pre-purchase inspection although I understand if you skip it because of the CPO, but at the least ask for a DME report for your own peace of mind. Even the CPO cars can sometimes have bad DME reports- probably due to negligent test drives. Just one less thing you'll have to worry about.

Example DME report attached:

 

[TchnoZ33]

I am def doing a PPI on the car. I really appreciate your input on this!

 

[Gizmo]

Keep the FL5. Take the extra money you spend on the Porsche each month and invest it into your future. Then some day, you will have multiple brand new Porsche’s if you stick to your plan.

that is part of why I chose the FL5. I wanted a sports car, but I wanted something that held its value and would be reliable. I did also invest in honda care for 8 years as well as the tire and wheel coverage for 6 years because I got both for about $1500 combined So that was worth it to me.

I don’t know much about Porsche resale value, but for a car the type r is as close to an investment as you can get. It will still be worth 80% or more(likely more) of msrp after 5 years. That’s insane resale.

 

[TchnoZ33]

Keep the FL5. Take the extra money you spend on the Porsche each month and invest it into your future. Then some day, you will have multiple brand new Porsche’s if you stick to your plan.

that is part of why I chose the FL5. I wanted a sports car, but I wanted something that held its value and would be reliable. I did also invest in honda care for 8 years as well as the tire and wheel coverage for 6 years because I got both for about $1500 combined So that was worth it to me.

I don’t know much about Porsche resale value, but for a car the type r is as close to an investment as you can get. It will still be worth 80% or more(likely more) of msrp after 5 years. That’s insane resale.

You know, I try to save as much as I can. Putting away about 1/2 my income for student debt. But it’s difficult to delay everything with the mind set of paying everything off before I do something nice. Like after school debt, there is house debt, after house debt there is kids schooling, then retirement. I don’t know where it ends ha. Thankfully, I can take care of my expenses but I don’t know if I can hold off until everything is “perfect.”

 

[chuck76]

@optronix summed it up nicely, as I own a 997 and FL5.
In my history of car ownership, I ended up selling, when needed, anything that had less utility.

There are many variables, and sometimes it is simply wanting something new.

 

[TchnoZ33]

Again- drive one, because while I'll "trash" the manual, I owned a 991.2 and it was vastly improved. That does not mean the 991.1 was "bad"! It's just the gates can feel a bit mushy because there's 7 forward gears. You'll get used to it.

If you can keep both, that's probably the move. Also consider a Cayman and save some cash. Same situation though- stay newer than 2009 to avoid the IMS issues. 981 Cayman and 991 Carrera are basically the same car from the doors forward! Don't sleep on them if you don't need back seat. You also get a usable trunk in the Cayman that you don't get in the 911- but no you're not going to fit kids in there... but then again, your kids will only fit in a 911 if they're younger than ~8 years or so.

Wish I could try it out…but it’s 2000 miles away lol. And I have no time to fly out to check it out. Guess I’ll just find out. All of this is making me feel im being too hasty but it’s not an easy car to come by. Decisions decisions.

 

[Gizmo]

You know, I try to save as much as I can. Putting away about 1/2 my income for student debt. But it’s difficult to delay everything with the mind set of paying everything off before I do something nice. Like after school debt, there is house debt, after house debt there is kids schooling, then retirement. I don’t know where it ends ha. Thankfully, I can take care of my expenses but I don’t know if I can hold off until everything is “perfect.”

No need to hold off until everything is perfect. I mean look at how far you have already come. You own a type R and are looking to move to a Porsche. “First world problems” ya know?

i just view things differently now at 35 I did 10 years ago. The only debt we have is our house, and I haven’t been motivated to pay that down more due to the low interest rate we have on it.

I understand not wanting to delay. You have worked hard and want to see the benefits. I understand that and you deserve it. I know its not what you want to hear but definitely knock out the student debt first. Housing is an appreciating asset so having a payment on that is acceptable. Same with putting money into a college savings account for your kids.

if it fits within your budget then go ahead and do it. We have part of our budget allocated just towards money we can blow each month. If it fits within that budget for you then do it.

 

[TchnoZ33]

Love this forum right now. Just FYI. Really quite realistic and appropriate advice and knowledge. Maybe I’ll hold off until I figure out what the heck I want. Originally I was going to sell the type R but honestly I feel really sad doing it. If I am going to keep it, maybe a cayman might be the more appropriate choice. First world problems and decisions. I really appreciate all the love!

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