• Welcome to CivicXI.com everyone!

    If you're joining us from CivicX.com, then you may already have an account here!

    As long as you were registered on CivicX.com as of May 24, 2020 or earlier, then you can simply login here with the same username and password!

A Preview of Next-Gen Civic Powertrain

OP
OP
TypeSiR

TypeSiR

Senior Member
First Name
Car Driver
Joined
May 15, 2017
Threads
26
Messages
1,970
Reaction score
508
Location
On a Twisty Road
Vehicle(s)
1.5T Civic, CTR, MX-5, Fit

hoodlum

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Threads
3
Messages
242
Reaction score
84
Location
Toronto Canada
Vehicle(s)
Saturn Astra

charleswrivers

Senior Member
First Name
Charles
Joined
Nov 3, 2017
Threads
4
Messages
2,078
Reaction score
170
Location
Kingsland, GA
Vehicle(s)
'14 Odyssey EX-L '18 Civic SI Sedan '94 300zx twin turbo 2001 Ford F-150 Sport
The 54.5 CAFE target in 2025 might speed thing along if they don’t modify/postpone it, @Design. Agreed, adjusted for inflation, fuel is still quite cheap most places in the US.
 

Gruber

Senior Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Threads
0
Messages
1,223
Reaction score
9
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
2018 Honda Civic Sport Touring; 2009 Honda CR-V EX-L
Clarity, either EV or PHEV, weighs over 1000 lbs more than my HB ST, while not having any more space inside, rather a bit less. That's over 1/3 more mass. That's 2020 Honda Pilot 2WD. :D Not exactly a swift car. My CR-V is lighter than the Clarity hybrid.

Even though the torque is sufficient for low speed jolts, clearly the Clarity hybrid's max total (ICE + electric) horsepower of 211 hp is going to feel a bit weaker than my 180 hp. The Clarity EV's electric motor is actually smaller than the PHEV's electric motor. At 161 hp max in a 4000 lb + car it's going to feel a bit sluggish at speed compared to any ICE civicx.

Also the gas mileage of the hybrid on long trips is not going to be any better than any current non-R ICE civic.

For a short-drive commuter who drives to work and back the whole winter a hybrid seems perfect but.... what if you don't use any gas and it lingers in the tank for months? Then maybe the EV is better, but for most people it would mean they need two cars or at least three in a family......

Altogether, I like it that they keep developing those golf carts, and some are fun, but not to the degree that I would actually consider buying one now.

The 2019 Nobel Prize in Chemistry was awarded this month for the development of lithium-ion batteries. Unfortunately, these batteries are not quite sufficient in my opinion to fully replace the immortal ICE in cars. And they are not new - one of the recipients is 97 years old. Besides incremental improvements, nothing important has happened in the car battery technology since then.
Wake me up when a new revolutionary battery appears. :sleep: Until then.. I will stay on ICE.
 
Last edited:


ulieq

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Threads
2
Messages
260
Reaction score
2
Location
iowa
Vehicle(s)
Sport Coupe 2019

turbo lover

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Threads
4
Messages
450
Reaction score
6
Location
Canada
Vehicle(s)
Civic Hatchback Sport Touring
Clarity, either EV or PHEV, weighs over 1000 lbs more than my HB ST, while not having any more space inside, rather a bit less. That's over 1/3 more mass. That's 2020 Honda Pilot 2WD. :D Not exactly a swift car. My CR-V is lighter than the Clarity hybrid.
Honda Insight might be a more direct comparison for the Civic than the Honda Clarity. Insight LX weighs around 200 pounds more than Civic LX, and has similar acceleration.
 

charleswrivers

Senior Member
First Name
Charles
Joined
Nov 3, 2017
Threads
4
Messages
2,078
Reaction score
170
Location
Kingsland, GA
Vehicle(s)
'14 Odyssey EX-L '18 Civic SI Sedan '94 300zx twin turbo 2001 Ford F-150 Sport
Honda Insight might be a more direct comparison for the Civic than the Honda Clarity. Insight LX weighs around 200 pounds more than Civic LX, and has similar acceleration.
The Insight gets 52 MPG combined... making it close to meeting 2025 CAFE now.

I read about it when they were released and the way you could tailor the hybrid system to work the way you want was pretty neat.
 

turbo lover

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Threads
4
Messages
450
Reaction score
6
Location
Canada
Vehicle(s)
Civic Hatchback Sport Touring
The Insight gets 52 MPG combined... making it close to meeting 2025 CAFE now.

I read about it when they were released and the way you could tailor the hybrid system to work the way you want was pretty neat.
The Insight gets 70 MPG on the CAFE scale, CAFE is based on Unadjusted EPA results. You can download the EPA datafile at https://www.fueleconomy.gov/FEG/download.shtml and look at the "Comb Unadj FE" column to see how cars are rated on the CAFE scale.
 

Design

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Threads
7
Messages
2,273
Reaction score
20
Location
Southern California
Vehicle(s)
09 MS3, 17 ABM Si Sedan
Clarity, either EV or PHEV, weighs over 1000 lbs more than my HB ST, while not having any more space inside, rather a bit less. That's over 1/3 more mass. That's 2020 Honda Pilot 2WD. :D Not exactly a swift car. My CR-V is lighter than the Clarity hybrid.

Even though the torque is sufficient for low speed jolts, clearly the Clarity hybrid's max total (ICE + electric) horsepower of 211 hp is going to feel a bit weaker than my 180 hp. The Clarity EV's electric motor is actually smaller than the PHEV's electric motor. At 161 hp max in a 4000 lb + car it's going to feel a bit sluggish at speed compared to any ICE civicx.

Also the gas mileage of the hybrid on long trips is not going to be any better than any current non-R ICE civic.

For a short-drive commuter who drives to work and back the whole winter a hybrid seems perfect but.... what if you don't use any gas and it lingers in the tank for months? Then maybe the EV is better, but for most people it would mean they need two cars or at least three in a family......

Altogether, I like it that they keep developing those golf carts, and some are fun, but not to the degree that I would actually consider buying one now.

The 2019 Nobel Prize in Chemistry was awarded this month for the development of lithium-ion batteries. Unfortunately, these batteries are not quite sufficient in my opinion to fully replace the immortal ICE in cars. And they are not new - one of the recipients is 97 years old. Besides incremental improvements, nothing important has happened in the car battery technology since then.
Wake me up when a new revolutionary battery appears. :sleep: Until then.. I will stay on ICE.
I agree. Hybrid has its advantages for shorter trips in city environments. They do not hold a huge advantage (yet) over their TCDI counterparts for both net performance and usability. What they gain in torque/efficiency, they lose in cabin volume and curb weight. Europe is a goldmine for Honda because fuel costs (relative to income) are high, and a much larger percent of the driving population does short commutes.

Honda attempted to break into the enthusiast market several years ago with the CR-Z. It's a great platform that performed reasonably well. But the improvements they saw in throttle response and fuel efficiency, were overshadowed by its weight distribution and net interior volume.

IMHO, battery weight/volume is the single biggest detractor for hybrids (but it's getting better).
 


charleswrivers

Senior Member
First Name
Charles
Joined
Nov 3, 2017
Threads
4
Messages
2,078
Reaction score
170
Location
Kingsland, GA
Vehicle(s)
'14 Odyssey EX-L '18 Civic SI Sedan '94 300zx twin turbo 2001 Ford F-150 Sport

Gruber

Senior Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Threads
0
Messages
1,223
Reaction score
9
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
2018 Honda Civic Sport Touring; 2009 Honda CR-V EX-L
Honda Insight might be a more direct comparison for the Civic than the Honda Clarity. Insight LX weighs around 200 pounds more than Civic LX, and has similar acceleration.
Yes, but the Insight is strictly a hybrid not an electric car because it has a tiny battery. It will also not keep up with a 1.5T civic. It will save you a little fuel money and that's about it.

"The setup provides a combined 151 horsepower, which motivates the Insight from zero to 60 mph in 7.7 seconds. It can run on its electric propulsion motor alone for roughly one mile at lower speeds...."
 

Gruber

Senior Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Threads
0
Messages
1,223
Reaction score
9
Location
TN
Vehicle(s)
2018 Honda Civic Sport Touring; 2009 Honda CR-V EX-L
The Insight gets 52 MPG combined... making it close to meeting 2025 CAFE now.

I read about it when they were released and the way you could tailor the hybrid system to work the way you want was pretty neat.
The 2025 CAFE "in real-world terms" is 39 mpg. So today's Honda civic almost reaches it. CAFE numbers are not to be taken literally, they are a bit of propaganda fake science.

I'm linking the text below as a reference for the above number. Otherwise, it is quite worthless and not worth reading.
https://physicsworld.com/a/long-veh...e-rollback-of-cafe-fuel-efficiency-standards/
Sponsored

 
 




Top