FK8 LE or FL5 (Sonic Grey)

[Y82OneTwoSix]

The FL5 is available with forged wheels and Cup2s.

Agreed but they will certainly not 20" BBS forged aluminum wheels and would be dealership installed 19" Cup 2 tires.

Not sure if you have priced out a set of 19" forged aluminum wheels and Michelin Cup 2 tires but it will not be cheap by any means?

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[Rhorn]

Agreed but they will certainly not 20" BBS forged aluminum wheels and would be dealership installed 19" Cup 2 tires.

Not sure if you have priced out a set of 19" forged aluminum wheels and Michelin Cup 2 tires but it will not be cheap by any means?

As opposed to what? Buying a FK8 LE?

The FK8 LE doesn't really offer that much of a gap in performance compared to the FL5 since it appears that Honda was benchmarking the FK8 LE.

The 20" wheels are definitely a knock against the car. Other than the weight reduction the LE doesn't have much going for it other than the fact that its limited so the resale value is strong. This is why people are suggesting to get the FL5 if you want to rack up miles.

 

[Howitzer]

I previously owned a 2018 RR FK8 and enjoyed that vehicle a great deal and was so impressed I purchased a 2021 CTR LE.

Initially I did not want to put too many miles on #126 as it was my intention to purchase a new FL5 and daily drive it but after looking at the crazy pricing and reading about the performance of the new 2023 I decided to purchase another low mileage 2021 LE which now allows me to put some miles on #126.

With respect to the trade-in price that was offered to you, when looking at it in terms of U.S. dollars, you are only getting ~$41,000 USF as a trade in which is unreasonable from my standpoint regardless of your mileage.

This coming weekend I will be driving #126 over to Honda Museum in Torrance, Ca. and am looking forward to a private tour of their outstanding museum before they relocate all those very cool vehicles to their corporate offices which is about a mile away.

After being in this great country for ~23 years I will be relocating back to B.C. in late March but have not determined if I will leave #126 and #581 down here for now or just bring one of them back to the Great White North?

Getting back to your dilemma, for me it would be a very easy decision.

You have a very rare 2021 CTR LE Canadian model that is much more unique than the new FL5, is quicker and faster that an FL5, comes with a painted Black roof and beautiful Phoenix Yellow paint, Cup 2 tires, light weight BBS wheels along with numerous delete items, possibly better looking for many of us than the FL5, will be worth much more in the long run therefore would encourage you to hang onto your 2021 FK8 LE.

Good luck with your decision and BTW how are your Cup 2 tires doing after some 8,000 miles of driving?

 

[Howitzer]

I previously owned a 2018 RR FK8 and enjoyed that vehicle a great deal and was so impressed I purchased a 2021 CTR LE.

Initially I did not want to put too many miles on #126 as it was my intention to purchase a new FL5 and daily drive it but after looking at the crazy pricing and reading about the performance of the new 2023 I decided to purchase another low mileage 2021 LE which now allows me to put some miles on #126.

With respect to the trade-in price that was offered to you, when looking at it in terms of U.S. dollars, you are only getting ~$41,000 USF as a trade in which is unreasonable from my standpoint regardless of your mileage.

This coming weekend I will be driving #126 over to Honda Museum in Torrance, Ca. and am looking forward to a private tour of their outstanding museum before they relocate all those very cool vehicles to their corporate offices which is about a mile away.

After being in this great country for ~23 years I will be relocating back to B.C. in late March but have not determined if I will leave #126 and #581 down here for now or just bring one of them back to the Great White North?

Getting back to your dilemma, for me it would be a very easy decision.

You have a very rare 2021 CTR LE Canadian model that is much more unique than the new FL5, is quicker and faster that an FL5, comes with a painted Black roof and beautiful Phoenix Yellow paint, Cup 2 tires, light weight BBS wheels along with numerous delete items, possibly better looking for many of us than the FL5, will be worth much more in the long run therefore would encourage you to hang onto your 2021 FK8 LE.

Good luck with your decision and BTW how are your Cup 2 tires doing after some 8,000 miles of driving?

Nice RR Type R, those are rare up in the Great White North, but if you have 2 x LE's, that's an even better scenario. I've heard about the Honda Museum in Torrance, CA...always wanted to go, but haven't had the chance. Definitely on my bucket list.

If you're moving up North for the long term, I would take both the #126 & #581 with you. The US versions may be more desirable since they don't have the rear wipers and rear heating ducts. Honda decided to keep both these items in the Canadian LE versions. I guess they thought it would be that much colder up here or something, but in Vancouver, they're not necessary and I would've preferred the even more stripped down versions. Although, the Euro spec is a bit too much, no head unit, no AC.

I'm definitely hanging onto my LE. Luckily, I kept my set of Work Emotion 18" T7R/Pilot Sport 4S. I occasionally mount the BBS/Cup 2, but the cost of them makes me paranoid to even drive on them most of the time. LOL.

 

[Y82OneTwoSix]

As opposed to what? Buying a FK8 LE?

The FK8 LE doesn't really offer that much of a gap in performance compared to the FL5 since it appears that Honda was benchmarking the FK8 LE.

The 20" wheels are definitely a knock against the car. Other than the weight reduction the LE doesn't have much going for it other than the fact that its limited so the resale value is strong. This is why people are suggesting to get the FL5 if you want to rack up miles.

I guess each to their own and happy that you think that an FL5 is superior to an FK8 LE and that "people" are suggesting to get an FL5 if you want to rack up miles but I am not one of them.

For me when looking at an FL5 for a vehicle that I could put some miles on versus another 2021 LE was a no brainer.

After taking into consideration various aspects of both vehicles such as the OTD price, 117# curb weight difference, color, design, painted Black roof, Cup 2 tires, light weight BBS wheels, various delete items, rarity, improved performance, 4.11 rear gearing and much better long term value it became an easy decision to purchase another LE.

Agreed that the LE examples have a strong resale value and that is predicated on not only limited production numbers but also centered around outstanding performance numbers.

I don't live all that far from the 1.8-mile road course at the Thermal Club in the Coachella Valley and after back to back driving sessions between a regular Type R and a LE model it was apparent that the 20" BBS wheels and Cup 2 tires on the LE were quite advantageous when it came to better lap times compared to a regular CTR therefore find your comment perplexing about the 20" BBS wheels/Cup 2 tires being a knock against the car.

Again all of this is subjective/personal and really is no different than after having owned a number of 2-seat Mustangs including numerous 2012 Boss 302 LS's, a few GT350R Base R models and an early production 2020 GT350R HE example.

No question that the 2020 GT350R HE model was the most refined of the three models but personally enjoyed the driving engagement and overall experiences of the Boss 302 LS and GT350R Base models more than the 2020 GT350R.

Again great to hear that you feel that an FL5 is a better fit for you but for me I was happy to go in another direction and have not looked back on my decision.

 

[Y82OneTwoSix]

Nice RR Type R, those are rare up in the Great White North, but if you have 2 x LE's, that's an even better scenario. I've heard about the Honda Museum in Torrance, CA...always wanted to go, but haven't had the chance. Definitely on my bucket list.

If you're moving up North for the long term, I would take both the #126 & #581 with you. The US versions may be more desirable since they don't have the rear wipers and rear heating ducts. Honda decided to keep both these items in the Canadian LE versions. I guess they thought it would be that much colder up here or something, but in Vancouver, they're not necessary and I would've preferred the even more stripped down versions. Although, the Euro spec is a bit too much, no head unit, no AC.

I'm definitely hanging onto my LE. Luckily, I kept my set of Work Emotion 18" T7R/Pilot Sport 4S. I occasionally mount the BBS/Cup 2, but the cost of them makes me paranoid to even drive on them most of the time. LOL.

I suggest that you are making a terrific decision with respect to keeping your 2021 Canadian LE model and when looking back some time from now I think that you will be quite happy with this decision.

Great points about the Canadian LE models retaining their rear wiper and heating ducts but did Swindon also retain the ~30# of sound deadening material in your car along with the rear sliding cargo cover in the trunk for the Canadian models?

Appreciate your suggestion with respect to bringing #126 and #581 up to the Okanagan in but will probably ship one car at a time as I will be paying duty and GST on each vehicle when I hit the Canadian border which is unfortunate but was expected.

Again great decision in my opinion and also what is your Canadian chassis number?

 

[michaeljf]

The FK8 LE doesn't really offer that much of a gap in performance compared to the FL5 since it appears that Honda was benchmarking the FK8 LE.

The problem, as always, is that the FK8 provided such a great platform that working within what you can realistically do for a factory hot hatch and maintain regulatory compliance and warranty there just aren't massive gains to be made.

FK8 LE - Engineered as a relatively exclusive limited run car to turn fast lap times at Suzuka
FL5 - Engineered as an evolution of the FK8 to be a "better" daily driver using some of what they learned from the LE

So for me the two are different in intent which is why I just love the LE as you don't often get manufacturers at this end of the market taking such a direct, and indulgent, goal and bringing it to life.

 

[pawnstar]

Not sure if you have driven an LE but it certainly offers much more than just long-term appreciation.

The Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires along with the light weight Japanese built forged aluminum wheels alone are good reasons to keep that car long-term let alone all of the other cool and unique features.

To your point about possibly selling it, your suggestion to sell it privately is certainly the only way to go.

I currently own an LE and it was nice Honda teamed up with BBS to make an exclusive rim for the LE. But to me its overrated. My brothers TRD PRO Tundra and 2015 STI have forged BBS wheels from the factory. Cup 2 tires are available to any normal consumer. I rather have Volk Racing, or Advan wheels for the same price. I also agree, I rather have 19inch wheels instead of 20s.

"Key" features on the LE:
- paint scheme
- weight reduction
- BBS wheels w/ Cup2s
- recalibrated steering and dampers
- 1 of 600 for US

Now was it worth roughly $5500-$6000 more than a touring model back in 2021?

FK8 might be faster from a roll but not from a dig and the FL5 did a faster lap time on Suzuka. It will be interesting to see what lap time the FL5 puts down for Car and Driver Lighting Lap 2023. LE time
was 3:00.7

I'm waiting for my dealer to get an allocation for an FL5. Not 100% sure if I'm going to make the switch. I barely drove my LE and leaning towards a FL5 for my new daily driver.

 

[Y82OneTwoSix]

The problem, as always, is that the FK8 provided such a great platform that working within what you can realistically do for a factory hot hatch and maintain regulatory compliance and warranty there just aren't massive gains to be made.

FK8 LE - Engineered as a relatively exclusive limited run car to turn fast lap times at Suzuka
FL5 - Engineered as an evolution of the FK8 to be a "better" daily driver using some of what they learned from the LE

So for me the two are different in intent which is why I just love the LE as you don't often get manufacturers at this end of the market taking such a direct, and indulgent, goal and bringing it to life.

Very well put and as the two above models that you referred seem to cater to a different audience thus us automotive enthusiasts have the choice of going with whatever model that makes sense for us so how good is that!

Back when the Shelby GT350/R's launched in July 2015 I had the opportunity to test drive a few 2016 Pilot Production GT350/R's at Sebring with those models coming with a Track Pack option, Electronics Package and a Base R model that came with 16 delete items on that base model.

Based on growing up in the 60's Muscle Car era it did not take me long to order a 2016 Base R model which for me hit all of the buttons with respect to less is more and that ended up being one of the many attributes that lured me over the the 2021 LE CTR.

As you previously mentioned there are not many times when an automotive manufacturer spec's out a HP vehicle with a sincere intent on producing the best handling, braking, steering and performing model and that was certainly the case with the 135 GT350R Base examples and the 600 LE examples built for the U.S.

Lastly, I found it very interesting that the Cup 2 tires on the LE's were actually larger in diameter than the Cup 2's on my Base R's but of course overall width was another story.

 

[Howitzer]

I suggest that you are making a terrific decision with respect to keeping your 2021 Canadian LE model and when looking back some time from now I think that you will be quite happy with this decision.

Great points about the Canadian LE models retaining their rear wiper and heating ducts but did Swindon also retain the ~30# of sound deadening material in your car along with the rear sliding cargo cover in the trunk for the Canadian models?

Appreciate your suggestion with respect to bringing #126 and #581 up to the Okanagan in but will probably ship one car at a time as I will be paying duty and GST on each vehicle when I hit the Canadian border which is unfortunate but was expected.

Again great decision in my opinion and also what is your Canadian chassis number?

I am quite certain that the Swindon factory did stick to removing sound deadening material. How much exactly on the Canadian model I can't say, but the dash and roof were vacant of the material. My friend, a body man confirmed this.

I also noticed that the LE is definitely louder in the interior compared with my previous 20" BB Type R. Significantly more road noise and exhaust is louder, not sure if it's the "fake" pumped in exhaust sound though.

Good call on shipping one LE at a time. Totally forgot the taxes, GST, etc can be quite hefty in Canada.

My LE is #39 of 100 in Canada.

 

[Y82OneTwoSix]

I currently own an LE and it was nice Honda teamed up with BBS to make an exclusive rim for the LE. But to me its overrated. My brothers TRD PRO Tundra and 2015 STI have forged BBS wheels from the factory. Cup 2 tires are available to any normal consumer. I rather have Volk Racing, or Advan wheels for the same price. I also agree, I rather have 19inch wheels instead of 20s.

"Key" features on the LE:
- paint scheme
- weight reduction
- BBS wheels w/ Cup2s
- recalibrated steering and dampers
- 1 of 600 for US

Now was it worth roughly $5500-$6000 more than a touring model back in 2021?

FK8 might be faster from a roll but not from a dig and the FL5 did a faster lap time on Suzuka. It will be interesting to see what lap time the FL5 puts down for Car and Driver Lighting Lap 2023. LE time
was 3:00.7

I'm waiting for my dealer to get an allocation for an FL5. Not 100% sure if I'm going to make the switch. I barely drove my LE and leaning towards a FL5 for my new daily driver.

All great points made and for me the key features on the LE including the painted Black roof which I really like a great deal was certainly worth the extra money and with you owning a CTR LE I assume that you felt the same way?

Regarding the C&D Lightning Lap which launched ~17 years ago at the VIR 4.1-mile Grand Course, I have followed that since day one and like you looking forward to seeing what the FL5 comes up with for a lap time?

You may already know this, but the vehicle that had the fastest lap time during the launch year for the Car and Driver Lightning Lap was a 2006 Ford GT and it posted a lap time of 3:00.7.

I have had the opportunity to drive a 2006 Ford GT on numerous occasions and they are outstanding performing vehicles therefore for the 2021 CTR LE to be able to match the original fastest Lightning Lap time of the 2006 Ford GT last year certainly confirms just how incredible these FK8 vehicles are and specifically the LE model.

 

[Xchax3]

They're going to improve on the FL5 on a refresh and will most definitely do a form of a Limited Edition. Keep that FK8 LE, although some people don't like the over-styled look, I think it defines when it was made. A dated car look isn't a bad thing. People still drool over 90s JDM cars that handle like crap compared to today's tech. The suspension on the FK8 is more forgiving. The FL5 can take turns better and is a great circuit car. Not so great in a drag race; even on a roll. I'm just being brutally honest. You'll love the FL5 but you'll love a refresh/limited edition FL5 even more. Just my opinion, stick with that beautiful FK8 until something pops up that you love even more.

 

[Y82OneTwoSix]

I am quite certain that the Swindon factory did stick to removing sound deadening material. How much exactly on the Canadian model I can't say, but the dash and roof were vacant of the material. My friend, a body man confirmed this.

I also noticed that the LE is definitely louder in the interior compared with my previous 20" BB Type R. Significantly more road noise and exhaust is louder, not sure if it's the "fake" pumped in exhaust sound though.

Good call on shipping one LE at a time. Totally forgot the taxes, GST, etc can be quite hefty in Canada.

My LE is #39 of 100 in Canada.

Appreciate the feedback regarding some of the differences between the Canadian and U.S. LE models.

I find it interesting that the Swindon factory decided to leave the rear wiper and rear heater ducts on the Canadian LE versions but then they removed the sound deadening material which is the same as our U.S. models?

The rear wiper and rear heater duct scenario may have been an issue determined by Honda Canada in Markham as sometimes issues such as removing a rear wiper may be deemed unsafe in Canada for some reason?

I remember back when Ford launched the 2012 Boss 302 LS cars in February, 2011 after which time Ford of Canada allowed 35 Boss 302 LS examples into Canada for that model year.

Then for the final 2013 model year Ford of Canada did not allow any 2013 LS models into the country with all 765 LS vehicles remaining for sale in the U.S. with that decision all centered around daytime running lights or lack thereof.

In addition to Swindon not removing the rear wiper and rear heater ducts, did #39 also come with the rear sliding cargo cover or did the Swindon plant remove that item as they did for our U.S. models?

With respect to importing my vehicles back into Canada, I will receive a $10,000 exemption for each vehicle when it comes to paying GST and will not be subject to any PST for B.C. which as you know is very high.

Being that the LE cars are not built in North America therefore do not fall under the NAFTA, I will also have to pay import duty based on these vehicles being built overseas.

Looking forward to your response in due course.

 

[Howitzer]

Appreciate the feedback regarding some of the differences between the Canadian and U.S. LE models.

I find it interesting that the Swindon factory decided to leave the rear wiper and rear heater ducts on the Canadian LE versions but then they removed the sound deadening material which is the same as our U.S. models?

The rear wiper and rear heater duct scenario may have been an issue determined by Honda Canada in Markham as sometimes issues such as removing a rear wiper may be deemed unsafe in Canada for some reason?

I remember back when Ford launched the 2012 Boss 302 LS cars in February, 2011 after which time Ford of Canada allowed 35 Boss 302 LS examples into Canada for that model year.

Then for the final 2013 model year Ford of Canada did not allow any 2013 LS models into the country with all 765 LS vehicles remaining for sale in the U.S. with that decision all centered around daytime running lights or lack thereof.

In addition to Swindon not removing the rear wiper and rear heater ducts, did #39 also come with the rear sliding cargo cover or did the Swindon plant remove that item as they did for our U.S. models?

With respect to importing my vehicles back into Canada, I will receive a $10,000 exemption for each vehicle when it comes to paying GST and will not be subject to any PST for B.C. wh as you know is very high.

Being that the LE cars are not built in North America therefore do not fall under the NAFTA, I will also have to pay import duty based on these vehicles being built overseas.

Looking forward to your response in due course.

It is quite odd that there can be such a difference between US and Canada in terms of what is deemed safe and what is not. I assume in Canada, removing the rear wiper was safety concern. Perhaps, due to the Type R being a hatchback because come to think of it any hatchback/liftback vehicle has a rear wiper blade up North. I can't really comment on why Honda Canada was instructed to keep the rear heater ducts, perhaps it's the sub-zero temperatures in certain regions. In the end, Honda Canada wanted to keep the LE as consistent as possible globally. My # 39 did come with the rear sliding cargo cover, but I could easily detach that in seconds.

All in all I find Canada has stricter regulations when it comes to what is allowed/not allowed. That is interesting that 2013 LS models not being allowed into the country due to daytime running lights. Although that should be a quick fix with a fuse. Unless the light assembly needed to be taken apart to include the daytime running lights. I still remember the third (2000) generation of the Toyota MR2 not being available to purchase in Canada when it was released, but started to see them being imported years after. I wonder what the issue was there?

Ah, that darn NAFTA agreement. They always find a way to extract more $ out of people. I feel it's wrong on so many levels considering you paid all the fees/license/transfers/etc when you first purchased the vehicle.

 

[Y82OneTwoSix]

It is quite odd that there can be such a difference between US and Canada in terms of what is deemed safe and what is not. I assume in Canada, removing the rear wiper was safety concern. Perhaps, due to the Type R being a hatchback because come to think of it any hatchback/liftback vehicle has a rear wiper blade up North. I can't really comment on why Honda Canada was instructed to keep the rear heater ducts, perhaps it's the sub-zero temperatures in certain regions. In the end, Honda Canada wanted to keep the LE as consistent as possible globally. My # 39 did come with the rear sliding cargo cover, but I could easily detach that in seconds.

All in all I find Canada has stricter regulations when it comes to what is allowed/not allowed. That is interesting that 2013 LS models not being allowed into the country due to daytime running lights. Although that should be a quick fix with a fuse. Unless the light assembly needed to be taken apart to include the daytime running lights. I still remember the third (2000) generation of the Toyota MR2 not being available to purchase in Canada when it was released, but started to see them being imported years after. I wonder what the issue was there?

Ah, that darn NAFTA agreement. They always find a way to extract more $ out of people. I feel it's wrong on so many levels considering you paid all the fees/license/transfers/etc when you first purchased the vehicle.

Agreed that being charged GST along with many other fees for a returning citizen to the Great White North who has already paid all of the appropriate U.S. taxes/fees for their cars and then requesting additional taxes etc. is not right but unfortunately that is the way that it is.

Back in 2012 I had two Black 2013 Boss 302 LS examples in my garage both of which had less than 10 miles on them and after numerous conversations with a couple of car buddies from Canada I relented and sold those cars to them based on not being able to secure that model year in Canada..

One unit was LS185 with my close friend just selling that unit within the last year or so (~6,000 KM) and ended up with close to $70,000 CDN and went to an individual in the Oshawa area therefore ended up staying close to home.

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