Gear lockout!

[Evox787]

I know this is a common issue with the 1st-to-2nd gear shift, so here’s a little background. On my car, everything is stock except for the line. I’m running the MAperformance line that goes straight from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder. I replaced the fluid at 30,000 miles with OEM fluid.

I really don’t want to deal with guessing what might work or not, and I’d like to avoid any future problems or headaches in regards of what fluid to use, due to prior experience with my old EVO. Today, I drove a bit aggressively because I was frustrated, and when I shifted from 1st to 2nd, the car seemed to hesitate for a moment before it started working normally again.

My question is: would upgrading the slave cylinder to one without the delay valve help reduce or eliminate this problem?

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[J_D]

Replace the MTF again:

1. A working slave cylinder doesn't need an upgrade.
2. The delay valve only slows down clutch release, not engagement. You shift gears when the clutch is engaged. Same with delay valve or not.

 

[AZCWTypeR]

Delay valve reduces banging between shifts, making it harder to "get rubber". Delay valve wouldn't cause noticeable hesitation. Hesitation is probably due to the momentary reduction in boost.

 

[Evox787]

This was the motion but didn’t let me put it back into 1st all your shifters are like this? It’s only after the 1st-2nd grind.

 

[cryptolime]

what do you mean by hesitate? is the engine slow to rev up? Is the clutch slow to disengage? slow to engage? Is it not sliding into gear smoothly?

what MTF are you using? Using other fluids besides Honda MTF can cause synchro engagement issues. If it is OEM, how many miles on the fluid?

in the video; how fast are you moving when trying to engage 1st? It's going to be pretty hard on the synchros above 5 mph. I really wouldn't recommend shifting into 1st above that without double-clutching/rev-matching. It puts a lot of wear on the synchro. Mine would be tough to get into and notchy like that without rev matching.

 

[Evox787]

what do you mean by hesitate? is the engine slow to rev up? Is the clutch slow to disengage? slow to engage? Is it not sliding into gear smoothly?

what MTF are you using? Using other fluids besides Honda MTF can cause synchro engagement issues. If it is OEM, how many miles on the fluid?

in the video; how fast are you moving when trying to engage 1st? It's going to be pretty hard on the synchros above 5 mph. I really wouldn't recommend shifting into 1st above that without double-clutching/rev-matching. It puts a lot of wear on the synchro. Mine would be tough to get into and notchy like that without rev matching.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear earlier. At 30,000 miles, I replaced the transmission fluid with OEM Honda MTF—2 quarts plus a little extra. The transmission lockout happened yesterday after I was driving the car pretty hard. The video I posted was taken in a parking lot, and I wasn’t even going 5 mph, but that’s how hard it can be to get into 1st gear sometimes.

As I mentioned before, I suspected the delay valve might be the issue. I didn’t mean to say the transmission feels hesitant; it’s just that after driving hard, when shifting from 1st to 2nd, the gear wouldn’t go back into 1st again. I was at a stop sign, and the car just wouldn’t engage. That’s why I mentioned the mod I installed to see if it could cause any problems. I included as much info as I could in my first post.

I assumed this might be similar to an issue I had with my EVO when I was using Redline MTL (I think that was the name). After upgrading to the EVO 9 master cylinder and removing the delay in the slave cylinder, the problem almost completely went away.

Today, I turned off the Auto Rev Match, and the shifting improved drastically. The video I posted was recorded before I disabled the rev match. I shared it to see if anyone else has had a similar issue. I also want to be clear that I’m only planning to use OE fluid in the transmission.

 

[Xmetal]

This was the motion but didn’t let me put it back into 1st all your shifters are like this? It’s only after the 1st-2nd grind.

That looks like a semi-denial into 1st? I do get a denial into 1st on a couple of occasions (IIRC, it only happened 2x in 8k+ miles). Usually, when this happens, I just pop it into 2nd and then it would let me get into 1st - probably the synchos a bit misaligned/off? Mine happened at a complete stop.

 

[Spart]

it’s just that after driving hard, when shifting from 1st to 2nd, the gear wouldn’t go back into 1st again. I was at a stop sign, and the car just wouldn’t engage

On my car, everything is stock except for the line. I’m running the MAperformance line that goes straight from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder.

Definitely do a thorough bleed job on the clutch master/slave again, since it's been apart at some point in time. The clutch not quite fully disengaging with the pedal pressed all the way in will present as a resistance to take first gear as you have described.

Most people are not as thorough as they would like to think about doing this. I would recommend a power bleeder.

See my video starting at 32:58 for what this looks like:



If you have adjusted your clutch pedal, you should also un-adjust it back to where it was from the factory. You can get the same thing from a bad clutch pedal adjustment: if the pedal cannot physically disengage the clutch far enough, then you won't be able to easily select 1st gear while stopped.

 

[Evox787]

Definitely do a thorough bleed job on the clutch master/slave again, since it's been apart at some point in time. The clutch not quite fully disengaging with the pedal pressed all the way in will present as a resistance to take first gear as you have described.

Most people are not as thorough as they would like to think about doing this. I would recommend a power bleeder.

See my video starting at 32:58 for what this looks like:



If you have adjusted your clutch pedal, you should also un-adjust it back to where it was from the factory. You can get the same thing from a bad clutch pedal adjustment: if the pedal cannot physically disengage the clutch far enough, then you won't be able to easily select 1st gear while stopped.

Thank you so much for sharing all this information! I’ll see if I can give that another try. I have a power bleeder, but sometimes it feels like I’m pulling out every bit of fluid during my last bleed, . I went through four bottles of Motul RBF, but I’m thinking it might be time to switch to Castrol or maybe another brand now.

 

[Spart]

Thank you so much for sharing all this information! I’ll see if I can give that another try. I have a power bleeder, but sometimes it feels like I’m pulling out every bit of fluid during my last bleed, . I went through four bottles of Motul RBF, but I’m thinking it might be time to switch to Castrol or maybe another brand now.

You saw the last part about the clutch pedal adjustment too, right? People get too greedy with that. I understand wanting the clutch to start grabbing as soon as the pedal lifts off the floor, but there is a downside.

Also, you say “pulling out” - are you using a vacuum bleeder? I really hate those, especially for performance-oriented use cases. They pull air past the threads on the bleed screw, so it’s impossible to tell when you’ve got all of the air out since there are always bubbles. A pressure bleeder gets rid of that problem.

 

[cryptolime]

That looks like a semi-denial into 1st? I do get a denial into 1st on a couple of occasions (IIRC, it only happened 2x in 8k+ miles). Usually, when this happens, I just pop it into 2nd and then it would let me get into 1st - probably the synchos a bit misaligned/off? Mine happened at a complete stop.

i get that too after about 15k miles on my fluid. happens to all manuals sometimes. What you can do is just shift to 2nd real quick then back to 1st to get past the synchro lockout.

 

[Evox787]

Definitely do a thorough bleed job on the clutch master/slave again, since it's been apart at some point in time. The clutch not quite fully disengaging with the pedal pressed all the way in will present as a resistance to take first gear as you have described.

Most people are not as thorough as they would like to think about doing this. I would recommend a power bleeder.

See my video starting at 32:58 for what this looks like:



If you have adjusted your clutch pedal, you should also un-adjust it back to where it was from the factory. You can get the same thing from a bad clutch pedal adjustment: if the pedal cannot physically disengage the clutch far enough, then you won't be able to easily select 1st gear while stopped.

I will buy that tool with the adapter—sorry, I jumped the moment you mentioned it! The adapter is a specific one; where can I find it? I’m also thinking of going with DOT 3 since I drive mine daily. Can this tool be used on the calipers as well? Because as you mentioned it was not easy to use the vacuum one with compressed air.

 

[J_D]

Dot 3 or Dot 4 from any parts store is fine. I would strongly recommend swapping the MTF again with OEM honda stuff. Remember the FL5 uses 2.2L of fluid and not 2L like regular Civic manuals.

 

[Evox787]

Dot 3 or Dot 4 from any parts store is fine. I would strongly recommend swapping the MTF again with OEM honda stuff. Remember the FL5 uses 2.2L of fluid and not 2L like regular Civic manuals.

That’s what I used: Honda OEM not even 10k miles ago. 2.3 quarts. That’s what the book says, and that’s what I did. I put the example on my old EVO. This is what the reference I used and I stop when in the 10mm bolt that need to get removed for the level spew a little out of there.

 

[Xmetal]

i get that too after about 15k miles on my fluid. happens to all manuals sometimes. What you can do is just shift to 2nd real quick then back to 1st to get past the synchro lockout.

I can't recall the last time I had it on my previous manual cars. Just odd that I've already experienced it 2x in about 8k miles on the FL5.

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