Honda’s Position Statement on Additives, Fluids, and Flushes

[TypeRD]

If anyone tries to upsell you on additives, fluids, or flushes as part of maintenance service, show them this from Honda corporate.

The attached pdf is the same as the link. Added it just in case the link ever gets broken.

https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/pubs/web/ASP11417.pdf

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[menikmati]

"Only a relatively small percentage of Honda owners routinely operate their vehicles under severe maintenance conditions which might necessitate more frequent changes than are typically recommended."

Unfortunately people will still do the 3k mile (or arbitrary) OCI or go by oil color because they've been conditioned to do so, it's what gives them the warm-and-fuzzies psychologically.

 

[TypeRD]

@menikmati Right. To legally cover their ass, Honda is saying the Maintenance Minder is not going to work for all scenarios. Enthusiasts (and/or folks who are OCD about their cars) already know this and will change their oil as they see fit. I don’t see a problem with it. Not my car. Not my money.

I posted this because l think there’s some less-understood or less talked about stuff like transmission flushes vs drain & refill that Honda has clearly outlined their stance on. Follow this guidance and don’t be duped into unnecessary (or potentially detrimental) services.

 

[Captain]

I have 10 years old FB7 177.000km on it I just do regular oil change i did two times transmission fluid change and one time brake fluid change and one time spark plugs and this year will changing the engine coolant.

 

[Jester04]

I change my oil every 3-4k religiously. But it’s a personal thing, I like to keep the fluids fresh.

 

[TypeRD]

I have 10 years old FB7 177.000km on it I just do regular oil change i did two times transmission fluid change and one time brake fluid change and one time spark plugs and this year will changing the engine coolant.

Yes, I believe 10 years ago Honda was still printing the service intervals in the owner’s manuals which clearly outlined things that should be done and when. I liked this as it helped me stay on top of things that only need service every few years, like brake fluid.

 

[Cornercarver]

I am mildly OCD on oil changes living in the AZ desert.
I look at the maintenance minder, as well as mileage and time between oil changes.
No, I don't let it get to 0, or even 10, but at 20-30 % oil life left per the monitor, should be fine.

i have had 0 engine or transmission failures in the last 44 years - a couple before then when I was young and the cars were old and abused by the time I got them.

As for transmission and other fluids, agreed that doing more than Honda recommends is pointless.

 

[Jester04]

I am mildly OCD on oil changes living in the AZ desert.
I look at the maintenance minder, as well as mileage and time between oil changes.
No, I don't let it get to 0, or even 10, but at 20-30 % oil life left per the monitor, should be fine.

i have had 0 engine or transmission failures in the last 44 years - a couple before then when I was young and the cars were old and abused by the time I got them.

As for transmission and other fluids, agreed that doing more than Honda recommends is pointless.

I honestly don’t trust the monitor lol. Mine is at around 30% and I’m at 9,300 miles with a track day, auto X event, lots of dyno pulls and lots of long distance travel with also quite a bit of logging and doing pulls testing different things. I’m already at 3 oil changes and the service light still has not come on.

 

[Zone47]

*dumps 5 gallons of Slick50 down the toliet*

 

[Cornercarver]

Yeah, that maintenance minder is way off for 9,800 not easy miles. And here I thought they were of some use, at least semi-accurate.
I will be doing an oil and filter change in the next few weeks.
Not as worried this time of year - with temps in the 50-75 range but I err on the side of caution once the AZ desert heat starts to kick in. Which could be in the next month...seriously.

Meanwhile, Honda per their recall letter, owes me a new fuel pump impeller, once they have that the part(s). The letter said...this fall. Thank you, you just stressed out a ton of Civic owners for no good reason. Maybe next time Honda, make sure you have the parts to fix it ready before announcing a recall you are six months plus out from being able to actually perform.
Probably they legally have to announce it. But still...

 

[Jester04]

Yeah, that maintenance minder is way off for 9,800 not easy miles. And here I thought they were of some use, at least semi-accurate.
I will be doing an oil and filter change in the next few weeks.
Not as worried this time of year - with temps in the 50-75 range but I err on the side of caution once the AZ desert heat starts to kick in. Which could be in the next month...seriously.

Meanwhile, Honda per their recall letter, owes me a new fuel pump impeller, once they have that the part(s). The letter said...this fall. Thank you, you just stressed out a ton of Civic owners for no good reason. Maybe next time Honda, make sure you have the parts to fix it ready before announcing a recall you are six months plus out from being able to actually perform.
Probably they legally have to announce it. But still...

Yeah some people have good luck with the maintenance reminder but mine seems to ignore everything I do.

 

[TypeRD]

Yeah, that maintenance minder is way off for 9,800 not easy miles. And here I thought they were of some use, at least semi-accurate.
I will be doing an oil and filter change in the next few weeks.
Not as worried this time of year - with temps in the 50-75 range but I err on the side of caution once the AZ desert heat starts to kick in. Which could be in the next month...seriously.

Meanwhile, Honda per their recall letter, owes me a new fuel pump impeller, once they have that the part(s). The letter said...this fall. Thank you, you just stressed out a ton of Civic owners for no good reason. Maybe next time Honda, make sure you have the parts to fix it ready before announcing a recall you are six months plus out from being able to actually perform.
Probably they legally have to announce it. But still...

At least it’s just a fuel pump. Our 2020 MDX is on a recall list for (potentially) an entire engine, due to crank shaft failures. Thankfully our MDX has been entirely trouble free, but I am awaiting the 2nd letter in the mail that says parts are now available and to take our vehicle in for an engine inspection and/or repairs. Who knows how many months it will take to get that letter.

Anyway…back to the topic. The MM is a good general guide, but it simply can’t factor everything the engine is subjected to. Even though I think the MM is intended to be conservative, you’re your car’s best maintenance minder.

 

[Tickle]

I think this all depends on how you look at this...

Are additives bad?

Or is a dealership/garage suggesting additives bad? There are certainly people who use products outside of a shop recommending them. Some come very highly rated from customers. Check BG on Amazon... Believers and skeptics usually have praise for their products. I've used their products before. Their snake oil certainly benefited my DSM transmission years ago.

I dont think a reputable shop is going to recommend flush service without a reason beyond new fluid being needed/suggested.

Trust the maintenance minder if you want to. You, will be following what Honda is suggesting. However if you know an experienced Honda technician that works on them for a living that you are comfortable with and or trust. Ask them what they think of the maintenance minder.

Yeah, that maintenance minder is way off for 9,800 not easy miles. And here I thought they were of some use, at least semi-accurate.
I will be doing an oil and filter change in the next few weeks.
Not as worried this time of year - with temps in the 50-75 range but I err on the side of caution once the AZ desert heat starts to kick in. Which could be in the next month...seriously.

Meanwhile, Honda per their recall letter, owes me a new fuel pump impeller, once they have that the part(s). The letter said...this fall. Thank you, you just stressed out a ton of Civic owners for no good reason. Maybe next time Honda, make sure you have the parts to fix it ready before announcing a recall you are six months plus out from being able to actually perform.
Probably they legally have to announce it. But still...

I understand where you are coming from about being stressed out. A better explanation from Honda would've explained in some way that there is a fix and it is available. However those who need it come first, dealers inventory second then replacing functional ones will be the last leg of recall.

 

[TypeRD]

@Tickle I don’t think additives are “bad.” Honda just doesn’t condone the practice of upselling stuff like that as they don’t believe it is necessary.

I’m certain there are great additives out there. Some are very clear cut about what they do and how they work when used in specific scenarios. Other additives are not so straight-forward. Most fuel system cleaners, for instance ; How do you know your car needs this? How do you prove efficacy of the product after you’ve dumped it in the gas tank? In most cases you can’t and that’s where the additive makers make their money. That’s not to say these are “bad” products, but it relies heavily on historical evidence of efficacy (which may not apply to today’s engines) or it relies on “scare” tactics : If you don’t use Super Engine Cleaner 5000 at every fill-up, your engine won’t work as well as it should and may break down and leave you stranded.

 

[Cornercarver]

Wondering if anyone has seen any data on the projected MTBF or any other statistics related to this fuel pump recall? Thank you.

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