FL5 Type R vs DE5 Integra Type S | Savagegeese

[optronix]

Still cracks me up to see subjective things like "turn in" or "more planted" pop up when describing the "specialness" of the Type R, from people who chose the Type R. The suspension hardware is the exact same, the only difference is the tuning (arguably downforce but show me evidence where it manifests in a road setting). If there was an actual measurable difference, it would make itself apparent in lap times. I think it's fair to say at this point there's no clear evidence of that. Some instrumented tests have one ahead of the other, but one of the hardest things to do in racing is maintain consistent lap times, so the only logical conclusion is they have identical performance. Some people like firm mattresses. Some people like getting bounced around a bumpy canyon road. Apparently.

I feel like with this platform, Honda/Acura really knew what they were doing and executed so well across the board. There is absolutely a reason they selected a Type S moniker and didn't leave an option for the seats in the Integra. That R badge definitely has a distinct allure, and anyone who feels that will find themselves undoubtedly pulled towards it. There's evidence of that all through this thread; one guy even listed the "dope wing" as an advantage lol... this is absolutely my point, if you think the wing is "dope", you should most definitely buy a Type R!

Those are the only real differences. I don't think the ITS really has $7k worth of value over the Type R, other than the extra year of warranty maybe. I think on a long enough timeline the values will stabilize and it will all boil down to subjective preference. As it should, because as I continue to say, they're the same car.

All that said as much as I like the seats in the DE5 for commuting after having one on a track and living with it for 6 months I can agree that I'm left wanting for a better seat situation, so I'm actively looking at Recaro and Bride for replacements. But I'd also be looking to get rid of the hilariously overdamped ADS module with a Type R, so I'd say I'm falling in this "goldilocks" category... but that's also the beauty of this platform is that it's friendly for modding to individual tastes (I'll probably get Ohlins as well making the damping conversation completely irrelevant anyway...).

It's a fantastic platform. Whether you'd like yours in the firm or soft setting is the only real decision, or perhaps if you can get one at MSRP vs ADM.

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[Negitoro7]

I’m glad the ITS exists, as I’ll eventually be swapping the ITS’ damper module into my FL5. I’m still breaking it in so haven’t pushed it at all, but it’s disappointing that Honda overdamped the FL5’s dampers that badly (if judging by the myriad of videos and opinions available now).

I also appreciate that the ITS is a much better street daily, and overall I even like its exterior looks more.

 

[Jester04]

I’m glad the ITS exists, as I’ll eventually be swapping the ITS’ damper module into my FL5. I’m still breaking it in so haven’t pushed it at all, but it’s disappointing that Honda overdamped the FL5’s dampers that badly (if judging by the myriad of videos and opinions available now).

I also appreciate that the ITS is a much better street daily, and overall I even like its exterior looks more.

Well it was tested and set up for a smooth as glass track. So that is why it’s so aggressive on anything other than smooth road. I use mine in comfort and it gets the job done, I do bounce around but it’s not atrocious either at least where I live.

 

[Blade]

So I finally saw a black ITS in the showroom and it was most likely was the color (black), or that it was sitting next to a TLX Type S, a new and old NSX, and S2000 but it really didn’t stand out - I actually walked to the TLX thinking it was the lntegra.

The back and the triple exhaust look great though.
The tacked on fender flares really does look cheap. I liked the interior and the seating position. It did however look very basic from the back seats. The seats seemed fine to me. The clutch and shifter feel were nice.

For me I just want the most fun drivers car, I’m not hung up on the looks. More on the feel of the car. I plan on keeping it for a long time.
I guess my big question is if the Acura exhaust is a 10. How would the Honda rate on that scale? Does it take away from the drive, especially windows open?
And in terms of power and performance. I see the savagegeese video and the extra hp/torque low end. It seems to me the DE5 is better on the track and on the road. I don’t see where the FL5 is better performance wise or where it gains the advantage?

My gut is telling me go with the FL5, but value for money at only $5k cdn the DE5 just seems like a better deal.
I do think the Type R nameplate is more iconic, and the seats seem cool but other than that where does it have the edge. I guess for Canada it is going to be rare.

 

[Clark_Kent]

@Blade I presume you've read this thread in its entirety. If not, start on Page 1 and read through to Page 16. There's also another thread that provides perspective from various individuals who have driven both. I suggest reading that one cover-to-cover as well if you haven't. I think the answer to your questions lie in these two threads. @RUNN1N has sounded off in both threads having owned both vehicles. Filter out the noise and focus on what you want and dealbreakers. The best car is the one that you decide is best for your use case.

 

[RUNN1N]

So I finally saw a black ITS in the showroom and it was most likely was the color (black), or that it was sitting next to a TLX Type S, a new and old NSX, and S2000 but it really didn’t stand out - I actually walked to the TLX thinking it was the lntegra.

The back and the triple exhaust look great though.
The tacked on fender flares really does look cheap. I liked the interior and the seating position. It did however look very basic from the back seats. The seats seemed fine to me. The clutch and shifter feel were nice.

For me I just want the most fun drivers car, I’m not hung up on the looks. More on the feel of the car. I plan on keeping it for a long time.
I guess my big question is if the Acura exhaust is a 10. How would the Honda rate on that scale? Does it take away from the drive, especially windows open?
And in terms of power and performance. I see the savagegeese video and the extra hp/torque low end. It seems to me the DE5 is better on the track and on the road. I don’t see where the FL5 is better performance wise or where it gains the advantage?

My gut is telling me go with the FL5, but value for money at only $5k cdn the DE5 just seems like a better deal.
I do think the Type R nameplate is more iconic, and the seats seem cool but other than that where does it have the edge. I guess for Canada it is going to be rare.

That's a really nice showroom lineup--a lot of cars are going to look mundane sitting between a classic NSX and S2000.

I agree the DE5's tacked on flares look cheap, but keep in mind why they're the way they are--the car is largely an A-Spec + Tech Integra with FL5 powertrain. I can only imagine what the DE5 would cost if they tried to add more bespoke body paneling. I agree the DE5 seats are a little boring, and the interior view from back to front leaves something to be desired. Conversely, the FL5's plain black bench seems a little out of place from the aggressive front bucket seats. Nothing's perfect.

The DE5's OEM exhaust/burble tune may be a 10/10 as far as OEM exhausts go, but there aren't many manufacturers competing for outstanding OEM exhausts at this price point--GR Carolla, Elantra N... am I missing any? Ideal exhaust note is subjective, and there are so many aftermarket options available, I wouldn't stress OEM exhausts too much. You wont hear much of the DE5's OEM exhaust with the windows closed. You won't hear much of the FL5's OEM exhaust with the windows open.

Performance-wise, don't overthink it. They each have enough power and torque to easily get you in trouble on public roads. Most professional reviewers achieve times lap times that are within a second of each other. They're essentially the same cars, made in different places and under different names, with slightly different comfort features.

Like everything else, which one has the "edge" is going to be up to you. I agree that the Type-S nameplate may carry a little less weight (at least among Honda/Acura people), and that it appears the FL5 is going to be rarer in Canada. That may help you appreciate more long-term vs the other, but that's up to you to decide.

 

[Midnight-VTEC]

For me I just want the most fun drivers car….



I do think the Type R nameplate is more iconic, and the seats seem cool but other than that where does it have the edge. I guess for Canada it is going to be rare.

As far as the most fun drivers car, they are nearly identical in driving so I wouldn’t worry either one you get you will love.

The name plate yes Type R is more iconic but does that really matter it’s all about the enjoyment. But let me say Integra has more sway with me than the word Civic so theres that I suppose. Also the FL5 will be more rare in Canada but the DE5 will be more rare globally. Lots of folks over in Europe and Asia have expressed they wish the DE5 was an option in their countries.

All in all, pick what you the feel the most pull for. If you can wait for a an FL5 and nothing else will fill that want, then best to wait it out.

 

[RUNN1N]

The name plate yes Type R is more iconic but does that really matter it’s all about the enjoyment. But let me say Integra has more sway with me than the word Civic so theres that I suppose. Also the FL5 will be more rare in Canada but the DE5 will be more rare globally. Lots of folks over in Europe and Asia have expressed they wish the DE5 was an option in their countries.

And there will be some diehard Honda/Acura people (like my cousin) who see the FL5 and say, "That's not a Type-R, because a Type-R is supposed to be naturally aspirated." He's got a DC2 Type-R, but it's been garaged for close to 10 years with a cracked head because he doesn't know how to take care of anything.

When garaged, the FL5 and DC2 collect similar amounts of dust, so enjoyment is pretty similar.

 

[Negitoro7]

So I finally saw a black ITS in the showroom and it was most likely was the color (black), or that it was sitting next to a TLX Type S, a new and old NSX, and S2000 but it really didn’t stand out - I actually walked to the TLX thinking it was the lntegra.

The back and the triple exhaust look great though.
The tacked on fender flares really does look cheap. I liked the interior and the seating position. It did however look very basic from the back seats. The seats seemed fine to me. The clutch and shifter feel were nice.

For me I just want the most fun drivers car, I’m not hung up on the looks. More on the feel of the car. I plan on keeping it for a long time.
I guess my big question is if the Acura exhaust is a 10. How would the Honda rate on that scale? Does it take away from the drive, especially windows open?
And in terms of power and performance. I see the savagegeese video and the extra hp/torque low end. It seems to me the DE5 is better on the track and on the road. I don’t see where the FL5 is better performance wise or where it gains the advantage?

My gut is telling me go with the FL5, but value for money at only $5k cdn the DE5 just seems like a better deal.
I do think the Type R nameplate is more iconic, and the seats seem cool but other than that where does it have the edge. I guess for Canada it is going to be rare.

If you care about the Type R pedigree and the rarity in Canada, I’d go with the FL5 especially if you like the seats. $5k difference isn’t huge, but also consider luxury tax if that applies where you are - that would bump the difference up more than $5k.

I do find the stock exhaust very disappointing on the FL5 and think Acura nailed it with the ITS’ exhaust changes.

 

[Blade]

Thanks for the all the input. But of all the videos I’ve seen. Performance wise where does the FL5 have an edge as the track vehicle? I’ve heard some people say tighter steering than others saying otherwise.
The dampers seem like they are too stiff even for the track.

 

[Blade]

If you care about the Type R pedigree and the rarity in Canada, I’d go with the FL5 especially if you like the seats. $5k difference isn’t huge, but also consider luxury tax if that applies where you are - that would bump the difference up more than $5k.

I do find the stock exhaust very disappointing on the FL5 and think Acura nailed it with the ITS’ exhaust changes.

I believe luxury tax is on vehicles over $100k

 

[Clark_Kent]

Thanks for the all the input. But of all the videos I’ve seen. Performance wise where does the FL5 have an edge as the track vehicle? I’ve heard some people say tighter steering than others saying otherwise.
The dampers seem like they are too stiff even for the track.

You're over thinking this. Performance advantages will be imperceptible to most, if not everyone who gets behind the wheel of each of these cars. So the FL5 laps the Ring 1.4 seconds faster than the DE5, or the DE5 gets around Hockenheim 0.4 seconds faster than the FL5. Who cares? Will that one second really tip your hand one way or the other?

 

[Jester04]

You're over thinking this. Performance advantages will be imperceptible to most, if not everyone who gets behind the wheel of each of these cars. So the FL5 laps the Ring 1.4 seconds faster than the DE5, or the DE5 gets around Hockenheim 0.4 seconds faster than the FL5. Who cares? Will that one second really tip your hand one way or the other?

This guy gets it, buy the one that you like the most. Both are great cars.

 

[RUNN1N]

You're over thinking this. Performance advantages will be imperceptible to most, if not everyone who gets behind the wheel of each of these cars.

I’m consistently coming in 2nd at daycare drop most days… but I’m not totally convinced the Town & Country I’m up against is totally stock.

 

[TW00Si]

I’m consistently coming in 2nd at daycare drop most days… but I’m not totally convinced the Town & Country I’m up against is totally stock.

Stop granny shifting…

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