Big willow track days and temp issues

RacingIsLife

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Been testing my setup a bit. Didn't get my glowshift gauge hooked up yet so I know actual oil temp. But on the street I reached 210F water temp doing a run up to 150mph (in Canada). That's the highest I saw on the street.

Went to Road America today, ambient temp was 75F. Was only able to get in 3 laps and the brake pedal got super spongy. Ended the session and my day. Was running Castrol SRF too. Taking away the brake tubes was a bad idea, live and learn. What's more, by the third lap (RA is four miles per lap) I saw max of 230F for water temp, and an indicated 268F for oil temp. That water temp is unacceptable to me since I'm still on stock IC and also running a small secondary auxiliary radiator (13 row Doorman cooler meant for transmission cooler). Gotta install the CSF radiator it's looking like. Also gotta add the brake tubes back somehow.

Bit of fun info. The prior day I ran my BRZ at RA. Ambient temps were mid 80's F and I saw a max oil temp of 261F with the HEL oil cooler core. Without the core I saw 278F in similar ambient. Undersized for the BRZ and def also for the FL5.

Back to the drawing board. Thanks all for the great info shared thus far.
 
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BuntaTypeR

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Ive been watching spoon videos and i saw a few things.
1. Looks like double oil cooler
2. Steel bumper is not there.
3. Hose to the brake.
I plan to copy them.

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Although, i have multiple things arriving that i need to prioritze for installs.

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I
 


ItsMeNickG

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Fender liner vents in.

Can't wait for the last few pieces to arrive next week to wrap this all up.
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That’s clean, I like it!

Off topic — The front splitter caught my eye, also custom work?
 

siwelnosaj

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That’s clean, I like it!

Off topic — The front splitter caught my eye, also custom work?
Thank you

Front splitter is from battle aero, but a custom spec I had them make for me (4 inches along the front, and 2 inches wide on each side)
 

RacingIsLife

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@BuntaTypeR great info, thanks for sharing. I noticed you posted a screenshot of a Mishimoto 19 row cooler. I've compared physically quite a few oil coolers... I've found that Mishimoto oil coolers are the exact same visually (row and fin type, connector type, mounting type) as the much cheaper Evil Energy brand on Amazon, and also the same as the even cheaper G-Plus brand on Ebay. I pressed Misihi for oil pressure drop data and... they just ghosted me lmfao. Their coolers are so cheap to them its no wonder they can offer their "lifetime" replacement warranty. Conversely, Setrab and Earls coolers look identical visually, but they have different threaded fittings for the cores themselves. I'd recommend either of the latter. Just my observations.

@siwelnosaj Gonna have to copy some of your implementations, like the fender vent.

The FL5 runs hot, yo! Of course @PointByPatrol, Gridzilla, and others have already shown this. But 230F water temp for me at my home track, with an external oil cooler and radiator plumbed in... reminded me of my Subaru STI days. Blew two of those up at Road America, stock power too lmfao. Those subies also ran 230+ F water temps, and that was with Koyo Radiator. I want to see water temps around 220F max, preferably around 215F max.
 

ITSguy

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Aren’t all your readings based on Hondas “estimated/calculated” values though? Or do you have actual gauges tapped into the lines? Sorry if I missed it somewhere if you do have readings. Otherwise how do you know your cooling mods are ineffective?
 


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The Spoon bumper is actually pretty different than what the stock FL5 has, in the pictures it seems like they removed the crash bar I think.

Wow this shot looks eerily similar to what @siwelnosaj has which is actually great. I wonder why they have the duct going straight to the brakes like that, and they dont have a sort of duct going straight to the coolers.
 
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RacingIsLife

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Aren’t all your readings based on Hondas “estimated/calculated” values though? Or do you have actual gauges tapped into the lines? Sorry if I missed it somewhere if you do have readings. Otherwise how do you know your cooling mods are ineffective?
Only going off based Honda's water temp reading, which I thought was actual? It's the Honda Oil temp that is calculated. I do have a Glowshift dual oil temp / pressure gauge I'm going to wire up in time for August track days.

Been thinking about my setup, and what I need to revise:

- Add the brake cooler tubes back, may have to connect with silicone hose to route around the new coolers

- Open up the fake vents on both sides of the front bumper and have them serve as air intakes to the side mounted coolers. Open up the fenders and mount vents like @siwelnosaj

- Install the CSF radiator I have sitting

- If possible, I'll add another Setrab oil cooler core in the same position on the left. Have a dual oil cooler setup, mounted in series.

Want this thing to survive the Lemans 24 hours basically LOL. Once I can get water temp at 215 F max, and oil under 240 F max, I'll then have @Jester04 do a tune for me.

Took a screen shot of peak temps right as my brakes went to shit. Man that oil pressure a little low for my liking, was running Kirkland 5w30. In with the Quaker State 5w40 next time!

11th Gen Honda Civic Big willow track days and temp issues Screenshot 2024-07-08 104331
 
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BuntaTypeR

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@BuntaTypeR great info, thanks for sharing. I noticed you posted a screenshot of a Mishimoto 19 row cooler. I've compared physically quite a few oil coolers... I've found that Mishimoto oil coolers are the exact same visually (row and fin type, connector type, mounting type) as the much cheaper Evil Energy brand on Amazon, and also the same as the even cheaper G-Plus brand on Ebay. I pressed Misihi for oil pressure drop data and... they just ghosted me lmfao. Their coolers are so cheap to them its no wonder they can offer their "lifetime" replacement warranty. Conversely, Setrab and Earls coolers look identical visually, but they have different threaded fittings for the cores themselves. I'd recommend either of the latter. Just my observations.

@siwelnosaj Gonna have to copy some of your implementations, like the fender vent.

The FL5 runs hot, yo! Of course @PointByPatrol, Gridzilla, and others have already shown this. But 230F water temp for me at my home track, with an external oil cooler and radiator plumbed in... reminded me of my Subaru STI days. Blew two of those up at Road America, stock power too lmfao. Those subies also ran 230+ F water temps, and that was with Koyo Radiator. I want to see water temps around 220F max, preferably around 215F max.
Have you tried g plus and evil energy?
 
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BuntaTypeR

BuntaTypeR

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Looks like they are using this brake duct or something extremely similar

https://www.speedengineering.de/en/...m-suitable-for-civic-type-r-fk8-complete-set/

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On my first fk8 I did something similar but it was far less refined and ultimately I just went back and stuck with the OEM duct

Then a few years ago I got the AP racing bbk and they recommend removing the dust shield and just using the OEM duct so it's what I've done ever since with zero issues along the way.

That said it's still an intriguing concept.

As for the spoon oil cooler; they are using the casale bespoke duct designed for them to create a ram air effect over the cooler, and they must feel like the sheer volume of air coming from this duct gets the job done.

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It was definitely a consideration to do something like this but in the end I didn't want to cut the painted bumper because I felt like others if they wanted to copy wouldn't be up for that. My goal was to see if I could find a way to minimally alter the OEM look and still provide adequate cooling.

And that's where the Japanese Honda research and development team became a big inspiration. They use a Mugen front grill piece that's a bit different, and as far as a can tell it also isn't for sell. I've seen a number of the different Japanese teams use this piece as well, I suspect for the same reasons (to provide cooling).

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So ultimately what I've been working on is my own take on the Japanese r&d concept.

It's worth noting this decision to go with 2 oil coolers down low and the secondary radiator behind the main grill, it's based on the system I developed on my fk8 and it worked very well. The challenges with the fl5 have really just been how to provide air to oil coolers without totally cutting up the bumper, and at least for myself I'm happy with the concept so far.

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I get the remaining pieces for my fl5 kit (covers, clamps, sandwich plate) from UPS on Wednesday and plan to have everything installed that night, testing on the street the following day (been 100+ lately so it'll be a good test). Street testing will only tell us so much though, and ultimately I need to take it to the track which I hope to do this September (really just comes down to money).

It's also worth pointing out that like with the fk8 set up I had, I don't expect this to be 100% bullet proof in every conceivable condition. Prob still can't track in 100+ temps. But I myself have never overheated with this set up on the fk8, even in temps in the 85-92 range (it did start to get warm though). Anything under that and I never even got close to an issue, even with running chassis record times at prominent West Coast tracks over full sessions (I put 6 laps in a row under the previous record at Sonoma, granted it wasn't that hot that day). My coolant peaked at 203 and oil at 236. Meanwhile the next day gridzilla was at the same track, same weather, and while going only a few laps, around 2.5 seconds slower on the best one, he was seeing oil get to over 300.

So we'll see but I'm optimistic this set up will work. This isn't a totally different car than the fk8, and I can't see why the same concept won't yield at least similar results. Additionally I'm cautiously optimistic that the ducting approach with the oil coolers might in fact be more efficient than my ram air concept on the fk8, but we shall see.
Im waiting for casale to reply. I asked if they sell it.

I have a track day next week but im thinking of running the R only 1 session and bring my other car. I will assume itll hit that 250f temp on 4 to 5 sessions. I dont want to push it after that. 300f the R goes limp mode after a min or 2. Im not sure what is the long term effect after that.
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