Are these cars actually reliable?

[TheFactor]

I’ve owned 3 Hondas two currently including my FL5 and they’ve all been great cars with no issues.

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[Starchland]

Overheating and heat soaking are 2 different things imo

 

[Tougefl5]

Doesn't make sense. A dealership can't fix a warentee problem and Doesn't offer a solution on a brand new car?
Basically kicks a customer to the curb with a 6k miles car.
Nothing about this makes any sense.

 

[Clark_Kent]

Doesn't make sense. A dealership can't fix a warentee problem and Doesn't offer a solution on a brand new car?
Basically kicks a customer to the curb with a 6k miles car.
Nothing about this makes any sense.

They will only do what you allow them to do. Or OP is omitting pertinent details. There's zero chance I would let a dealership jerk me if I had a path for recourse.

 

[Baby blue]

What mods have you done to this fl5? Cutting off power and dropping 50 mph in seconds? Seems like someone was playing with this fl5 put it back to stock, and now bring back to the dealership, just my opinion.

 

[BuntaTypeR]

I own an S2000, Subaru STI, and a Model 3 Performance. I can only speak from my own experience. The main issue with the Type R is cooling. On track days, if the ambient temperature is over 75°F, the car tends to overheat after about three laps, depending on how aggressively you're driving. A pro driver can push my car to overheat in just two laps.

You can mitigate the overheating by installing oil coolers, short-shifting well before redline, avoiding downshifts after corners, and doing cooldown laps after the third or fourth lap. So far, I haven’t blown the engine on my Type R. Even when oil temps hit 300°F according to LogR, the car never went into limp mode.

Before buying the Type R, I had considered the GR86, but I had seen multiple reports of owners blowing engines on track, with Toyota denying warranty claims. The same concerns applied to the GR Corolla. I’ve also owned an STI, but the boxer engine is known for reliability issues. I even considered the new BMW M2, but I was put off by the high maintenance costs and the fact that I don’t feel entirely safe with RWD.

 

[Clark_Kent]

I own an S2000, Subaru STI, and a Model 3 Performance. I can only speak from my own experience. The main issue with the Type R is cooling. On track days, if the ambient temperature is over 75°F, the car tends to overheat after about three laps, depending on how aggressively you're driving. A pro driver can push my car to overheat in just two laps.

You can mitigate the overheating by installing oil coolers, short-shifting well before redline, avoiding downshifts after corners, and doing cooldown laps after the third or fourth lap. So far, I haven’t blown the engine on my Type R. Even when oil temps hit 300°F according to LogR, the car never went into limp mode.

Before buying the Type R, I had considered the GR86, but I had seen multiple reports of owners blowing engines on track, with Toyota denying warranty claims. The same concerns applied to the GR Corolla. I’ve also owned an STI, but the boxer engine is known for reliability issues. I even considered the new BMW M2, but I was put off by the high maintenance costs and the fact that I don’t feel entirely safe with RWD.

Is your Type R completely stock?

 

[BuntaTypeR]

Is your Type R completely stock?

Not anymore, but I used to take the car to the track even when it was completely stock.

Got some pics in my signature:
https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/buntatyper-boost-blue-build.54569/

I bought this car to be driven hard.

Rsx-s is my most reliable honda. It hit 160k miles revving 8.9k rpm everday.

 

[Clark_Kent]

Not anymore, but I used to take the car to the track even when it was completely stock.

Got some pics in my signature:
https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/buntatyper-boost-blue-build.54569/

I bought this car to be driven hard.

Rsx-s is my most reliable honda. It hit 160k miles revving 8.9k rpm everday.

I should've been clearer. Did your 100% bone stock FL5 consistently overheat on track after three laps (2 with a pro driver) when ambient temperatures were above 75°F?

 

[BuntaTypeR]

I should've been clearer. Did your 100% bone stock FL5 consistently overheat on track after three laps (2 with a pro driver) when ambient temperatures were above 75°F?

Correct. Specifically referencing Big Willow and Streets of Willow. That said, his driving style differs significantly from mine. When I refer to overheating, I mean engine oil temperatures exceeding 250°F as recorded by Honda LogR. While the ECU doesn’t initiate limp mode at these levels, both PWR company and various engine oil manufacturers classify sustained temperatures above 240°F as high risk for long-term engine wear or degradation. That said, I haven’t seen any documented cases of engine failure among FL5 owners in the track community and it's likely many have exceeded 280°F during sessions.

However, the long-term impact of consistently running at these temperatures remains unknown. In that sense, I'm essentially the test case.

 

[Clark_Kent]

Correct. Specifically referencing Big Willow and Streets of Willow. That said, his driving style differs significantly from mine. When I refer to overheating, I mean engine oil temperatures exceeding 250°F as recorded by Honda LogR. While the ECU doesn’t initiate limp mode at these levels, both PWR company and various engine oil manufacturers classify sustained temperatures above 240°F as high risk for long-term engine wear or degradation. That said, I haven’t seen any documented cases of engine failure among FL5 owners in the track community and it's likely many have exceeded 280°F during sessions.

However, the long-term impact of consistently running at these temperatures remains unknown. In that sense, I'm essentially the test case.

I appreciate you clarifying. We clearly have different definitions of overheating.

 

[optronix]

Correct. Specifically referencing Big Willow and Streets of Willow. That said, his driving style differs significantly from mine. When I refer to overheating, I mean engine oil temperatures exceeding 250°F as recorded by Honda LogR. While the ECU doesn’t initiate limp mode at these levels, both PWR company and various engine oil manufacturers classify sustained temperatures above 240°F as high risk for long-term engine wear or degradation. That said, I haven’t seen any documented cases of engine failure among FL5 owners in the track community and it's likely many have exceeded 280°F during sessions.

However, the long-term impact of consistently running at these temperatures remains unknown. In that sense, I'm essentially the test case.

So... you're saying your car overheated because you were staring at the gauge the entire time?

And there's still some ambiguity around whether or not the car "overheated" before or after modifications.

This overheating thing is getting out of control. Everyone's situation is apparently unique to them, but it still comes down to an exorbitantly high volume of reported overheating issues being correlated with aftermarket parts. Mostly intercoolers. I think the safe assumption is that the FL5 is actually not a great platform if your goal is to mod the shit out of it and beat it half to death on a race track for hours at a time in hot climates. And I don't think I'd disagree with that... but also wouldn't necessarily call that "unreliable"...

The fuel cut thing is real though, and apparently made worse with tunes. It is also a similar thing with overheating in that reports coming in over the Internet are sporadic and lacking context, but it does seem that running anything less than half a tank on the track can lead to cutting fuel and even limp mode. I don't see how this should ever happen on the street though so I still think OP is dealing with a lemon, or as others have surmised possibly done some aftermarket shenanigans to it and expecting the dealer to make it normal again.

 

[CG13]

I own an S2000, Subaru STI, and a Model 3 Performance. I can only speak from my own experience. The main issue with the Type R is cooling. On track days, if the ambient temperature is over 75°F, the car tends to overheat after about three laps, depending on how aggressively you're driving. A pro driver can push my car to overheat in just two laps.

You can mitigate the overheating by installing oil coolers, short-shifting well before redline, avoiding downshifts after corners, and doing cooldown laps after the third or fourth lap. So far, I haven’t blown the engine on my Type R. Even when oil temps hit 300°F according to LogR, the car never went into limp mode.

Before buying the Type R, I had considered the GR86, but I had seen multiple reports of owners blowing engines on track, with Toyota denying warranty claims. The same concerns applied to the GR Corolla. I’ve also owned an STI, but the boxer engine is known for reliability issues. I even considered the new BMW M2, but I was put off by the high maintenance costs and the fact that I don’t feel entirely safe with RWD.

So... you're saying your car overheated because you were staring at the gauge the entire time?

And there's still some ambiguity around whether or not the car "overheated" before or after modifications.

This overheating thing is getting out of control. Everyone's situation is apparently unique to them, but it still comes down to an exorbitantly high volume of reported overheating issues being correlated with aftermarket parts. Mostly intercoolers. I think the safe assumption is that the FL5 is actually not a great platform if your goal is to mod the shit out of it and beat it half to death on a race track for hours at a time in hot climates. And I don't think I'd disagree with that... but also wouldn't necessarily call that "unreliable"...

The fuel cut thing is real though, and apparently made worse with tunes. It is also a similar thing with overheating in that reports coming in over the Internet are sporadic and lacking context, but it does seem that running anything less than half a tank on the track can lead to cutting fuel and even limp mode. I don't see how this should ever happen on the street though so I still think OP is dealing with a lemon, or as others have surmised possibly done some aftermarket shenanigans to it and expecting the dealer to make it normal again.

My experience is the opposite of what you describe here.

Completely stock, the car heated up very quickly on track and I couldn’t finish a 20 minute session without sustained oil temps showing 280+. Coolant temps would get up 240+.

There was no beating it to death for hours, just lapping at moderate pace on a track for 20 minute sessions.

I’ve added oil cooler, PWR track radiator, full exhaust, turbo blanket, downpipe blanket and I can run 20 minute sessions without temps reaching these levels.

I never considered this “unreliable,” just disappointing because the car’s thermal limits can be reached quickly when stock.

 

[BuntaTypeR]

Manufacturers generally recommend not pushing beyond 240–250°F for extended periods. The FL5 doesn't come equipped with a true oil temperature sensor the LogR app provides estimated values, but it's not a direct reading from the engine oil.

I've installed a proper engine oil temperature sensor on the return line from my oil cooler back to the engine. It shows a 70–80°F drop after the oil passes through my dual oil coolers, which makes sense. Obviously, airflow plays a big role if there’s a car in front blocking fresh air, temps will rise.

Based on that, while LogR isn't a true oil temp reading, I’d say it's pretty close. The large temperature delta is mostly due to my upgraded cooling setup. I've reached out to companies like Mobil and PWR, and they all echoed the same advice: start cooling down once you’re hitting 240–250°F.

That said, I’ve pushed the car past 290°F (stock) before without catastrophic issues, but I wouldn’t recommend doing that regularly if you care about engine longevity.

Now, maybe we should let the OP define what reliability means to him. If you're chasing ultimate reliability, get a Miata, S2000, RSX-S — or better yet, a Prius. Turbo cars just won’t match the long-term durability of a well-engineered naturally aspirated setup.

 

[optronix]

My experience is the opposite of what you describe here.

Completely stock, the car heated up very quickly on track and I couldn’t finish a 20 minute session without sustained oil temps showing 280+. Coolant temps would get up 240+.

There was no beating it to death for hours, just lapping at moderate pace on a track for 20 minute sessions.

I’ve added oil cooler, PWR track radiator, full exhaust, turbo blanket, downpipe blanket and I can run 20 minute sessions without temps reaching these levels.

I never considered this “unreliable,” just disappointing because the car’s thermal limits can be reached quickly when stock.

This is good data. One of the only anecdotes I've seen with a completely stock car.

I'd still want to question whether or not the synthetic temperature readings being over a defined amount qualify as "overheating", but it's still a fair assessment. And yes, I agree that we should reasonably expect the car to stand up to moderately paced 20 minute track sessions.

Thing is though, your experience doesn't match mine. My car was perfectly FINE in ambient temps of ~80 degrees... but I'll concede it was just two 20 minute sessions. But I had full confidence it would have made it for a 3rd. I'm not a pro driver but I wasn't actively backing off either...

So TL;DR, I think we're all still left with only our own experiences to work with. My goals don't include any more than 2, maybe 3 HPDEs a year with this car and no PR chasing, so I still feel like my car can deliver on that. YMMV.

And I'll also add that my DE5 stands up better to track use than other previously owned cars, namely an F82 M4 and a VA STI. Arguably as good as any of my past Porsches, so I still feel like it's a great value.

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