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A Preview of Next-Gen Civic Powertrain

VarmintCong

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This all seems to verify that my dealer was right about the future of the TypeR. 11th gen will be a hybrid and 2020 will be a half year production, then no more TypeR.
The article's talking about the CRV. Big stretch to say it's coming to the Type R. Regular Civic may get a hybrid trim.
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Boostez

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The article's talking about the CRV. Big stretch to say it's coming to the Type R. Regular Civic may get a hybrid trim.
Yes, it's about the CR-V but that tells me that Honda is indeed working on the hybrid. All of the cars will use some/all of the new tech.
 

Design

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This all seems to verify that my dealer was right about the future of the TypeR. 11th gen will be a hybrid and 2020 will be a half year production, then no more TypeR.
Word from Torrance is that the CTR will carry through MY 2021. They are mulling over a limited production trim for the last 6 months of the model cycle as well.

The 11th Gen USDM CTR, while not yet confirmed, is expected to carry over a version of the 2.0T.

On topic, I could see they hybrid powertrain being listed as an option for most of the Civic trims sans the performance variants.
 
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frontlinegeek

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And sorry, but "Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation System™" (Honda-Garmin), totally sucks. It might have been cutting edge in the 90's, but today it is total, featureless, RUBBISH.
Frankly, at this point, anything other than Google navigation is pure crap. Touring with Navi is a complete and utter waste of time.


No thanks. Hopefully my CTR will last forever.
Hybrid crap.
Mmm... Hybrid crap like the Prius that has been phenomenally reliable and successful. Like it or not, long term, electric motors as the prime mover in the car is the future.

Hybrids aren't a proven thing yet in the automotive world.
Now tell me this was just a random brain fart... Right off the hop, the tech has been around before WW2 (Ferdinand Porsche) to say nothing of the dozen or more projects in the 1980s or the Prius, Gen1 Honda Insight, Audi Duo, Civic Hybrid starting in 2002 and the Ford Escape in 2005. Technology moves fast and it doesn't take 40 years to develop a whole new powertrain layout. Oh and every single Diesel electric locomotive.

The article's talking about the CRV. Big stretch to say it's coming to the Type R. Regular Civic may get a hybrid trim.
I would say no for the Type R for the near term but for sure, if Honda can get the batteries for a good price, they have reasonable storage, they are ALL plugin hybrids and not just hybrids and the price for the option is only at most a 10% premium... It will be in nearly everything. Ridgeline, van, you name it. When your system is primarily electric motors, even large vehicles like the Ridgeline even loaded down, are not an issue to move.

I also thing that Honda will likely hug hybrids like their waifu for a good while until the whole battery only and the costs and charging speeds can be worked out a little more. Until I can charge an EV by 80% in 15 minutes or less, I am not interested.
 

Zeffy94

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I also thing that Honda will likely hug hybrids like their waifu for a good while until the whole battery only and the costs and charging speeds can be worked out a little more. Until I can charge an EV by 80% in 15 minutes or less, I am not interested.
I'll consider them when I can charge it in the same amount of time it takes me to fill up my gas tank. :thumbsup: Hybrids are cool though, the hate on them is ridiculous at this point. I've seen older Prii on the road plenty of times.
 


ExVTEC

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Nope. It may be the future but not of choice. Reliable, so what. ICE engines are very reliable. The prius is a sub compact car that costs almost double the price of a non hybrid in it's class. Yea it's the future for those that want to spend more money. Regulating fossil fuels out of the market place does not mean there is a true market demand for hybrid/ev.. For 2017 EV's made up about 3% of the car market. If you sold red, green, blue and black Type Rs and the pink one's were collecting dust selling under MSRP would you order more? Here in the US we've had a tax credit of about $7500 I believe. All gov't agencies are mandated to buy them ( I work at one, I know). Take the tax credit, mandatory purchases from gov't agencies and you still, from a business perspective, can't say there's a solid market demand. Chevy cancelled the Avalanche for the Volt. That car was sold at a loss and is still a loss to this day. The Avalanche outsold the VOLT about 15-1. Yet here we are most major manufacturers realigning to produce more SUV/CUVs. Going hybrid/ev is not a market thing, it's a regulation thing. Hybrid/EVs would not need the tax credit if there really was a demand. Just look at the Type R, 3 years in and still over MSRP. Why?............

Mmm... Hybrid crap like the Prius that has been phenomenally reliable and successful. Like it or not, long term, electric motors as the prime mover in the car is the future.
 

frontlinegeek

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It may be the future but not of choice.
Electric motors are flat out an inevitability. The only issue has been energy storage and delivery/replenishment. If the storage and use issue was never there, we would likely never have had ICE or certainly not at the level we ended up.

Reliable, so what. ICE engines are very reliable.
Yes, they are. When they are from Japan. Electric motors are wildly more reliable and can be built to deliver far more power per pound than any ICE could ever dream.

The prius is a sub compact car that costs almost double the price of a non hybrid in it's class.
I listed the Prius because you claimed there was no or little proof of reliability and that claim is demonstrably false.

Yea it's the future for those that want to spend more money.
Only early adopters pay more. Would you like to explain to me how people bought ICE cars before the model T?

Regulating fossil fuels out of the market place does not mean there is a true market demand for hybrid/ev.. For 2017 EV's made up about 3% of the car market.
There has been a demand for electrics for a very long time. The issue that haunts the product are manifold. They include the lack of a proper method of storage (As noted), all the way to companies and dealerships not being keen on the rather large drop in maintenance and repairs needed for the powertrain of an EV and either staying away as they don't have a way to properly monetize it yet or flat out deliberate undermining.

Here in the US we've had a tax credit of about $7500 I believe. All gov't agencies are mandated to buy them ( I work at one, I know). Take the tax credit, mandatory purchases from gov't agencies and you still, from a business perspective, can't say there's a solid market demand.
And Canada too. There are more charger stations in the province I live than there are EVs or PHEVs. This doesn't mean there isn't a demand. It means there is a lack of product available at the right price.

PFFT!!!!! You can stop in that one word with that line of thought...

Going hybrid/ev is not a market thing, it's a regulation thing. Hybrid/EVs would not need the tax credit if there really was a demand.
Totally agree on tax credits/subsidies. They should not be in play. But again, even here, we see simply that it is not that the product is not wanted but the prices are not desirable. If you can buy a car that only costs say at most 3 years of fuel costs if it was ICE, they will sell a lot faster. All these stupid Teslas are just high end virtue signal toys.

There is no question that CAFE standards (Also directly affect Canadian market as it is a shared market between us two neighbors) have played a role and same for EU standards. Regulation is only part of the issue. Gas prices absolutely drive the desire more than anything else. You can see it as clear as day when there is a complete change in the vehicle purchase patterns.
 

ExVTEC

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Never said the prius wasn't reliable. And no to everything else.


Electric motors are flat out an inevitability. The only issue has been energy storage and delivery/replenishment. If the storage and use issue was never there, we would likely never have had ICE or certainly not at the level we ended up.



Yes, they are. When they are from Japan. Electric motors are wildly more reliable and can be built to deliver far more power per pound than any ICE could ever dream.



I listed the Prius because you claimed there was no or little proof of reliability and that claim is demonstrably false.



Only early adopters pay more. Would you like to explain to me how people bought ICE cars before the model T?



There has been a demand for electrics for a very long time. The issue that haunts the product are manifold. They include the lack of a proper method of storage (As noted), all the way to companies and dealerships not being keen on the rather large drop in maintenance and repairs needed for the powertrain of an EV and either staying away as they don't have a way to properly monetize it yet or flat out deliberate undermining.



And Canada too. There are more charger stations in the province I live than there are EVs or PHEVs. This doesn't mean there isn't a demand. It means there is a lack of product available at the right price.



PFFT!!!!! You can stop in that one word with that line of thought...



Totally agree on tax credits/subsidies. They should not be in play. But again, even here, we see simply that it is not that the product is not wanted but the prices are not desirable. If you can buy a car that only costs say at most 3 years of fuel costs if it was ICE, they will sell a lot faster. All these stupid Teslas are just high end virtue signal toys.

There is no question that CAFE standards (Also directly affect Canadian market as it is a shared market between us two neighbors) have played a role and same for EU standards. Regulation is only part of the issue. Gas prices absolutely drive the desire more than anything else. You can see it as clear as day when there is a complete change in the vehicle purchase patterns.
 

VarmintCong

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Nope. It may be the future but not of choice. Reliable, so what. ICE engines are very reliable. The prius is a sub compact car that costs almost double the price of a non hybrid in it's class. Yea it's the future for those that want to spend more money. Regulating fossil fuels out of the market place does not mean there is a true market demand for hybrid/ev.. For 2017 EV's made up about 3% of the car market. If you sold red, green, blue and black Type Rs and the pink one's were collecting dust selling under MSRP would you order more? Here in the US we've had a tax credit of about $7500 I believe. All gov't agencies are mandated to buy them ( I work at one, I know). Take the tax credit, mandatory purchases from gov't agencies and you still, from a business perspective, can't say there's a solid market demand. Chevy cancelled the Avalanche for the Volt. That car was sold at a loss and is still a loss to this day. The Avalanche outsold the VOLT about 15-1. Yet here we are most major manufacturers realigning to produce more SUV/CUVs. Going hybrid/ev is not a market thing, it's a regulation thing. Hybrid/EVs would not need the tax credit if there really was a demand. Just look at the Type R, 3 years in and still over MSRP. Why?............
I'm not an EV fan for the same reason - massive government incentives were paying half the cost of a Tesla - tax the middle class to pay for toys for the rich.

But you have to adjust your opinions as times change. The federal subsidies have been greatly cut - only $1875 now for Teslas, still $7500 for low volume Audis, Porsches etc.
And the technology keeps improving. EVs do eliminate a lot of the failure points in regular vehicles, and a fillup costs a fraction of gas-powered cars.

So there's definitely demand right now, but a lot of it will dry up if/when the asset bubbles pop and people don't have a steady flow of easy money coming from their portfolios.
 


Neddih

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As a server system engineer i'll just voice my worries here...

Knowing the trend of electronics and computers, even if vehicles don't rack up a fuel cost and meet standards, I have a hard time believing that the way cars start to evolve is going to end up with not a single low cost "fun" car on the market,
sure you don't pay for fuel, now you will just be charged for a head unit and battery
 

Mcclaughry95

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How long will it take uncle Sam to figure out a way to tax electric vehicle usage. With dwindling gas tax revenues. Gonna be in just a few years.
On your electric bill for those of us that dont have enough sunlight to go solar. I'd need twice the panels at least compared to someone in Cali.
 

coo1rim

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Alternators are obsolete when compared to regenerative braking that will run the AC and power steering
 

Browncoat3000

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Well the Acura Type-S is coming, that argues Honda isn’t quitting the enthusiast market yet.

While Tesla’s are cool, I have yet to see one at an Autocross.
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