Anyone Want to Share Data Logs w/Kuro Turbo?

[ABPDE5]

Don't fuel upgrades, like 1450cc injectors and a HPFP exceed the capabilities of the stock turbo (at least without seriously stressing reliability)?

I am confused why -- if the price is similar when choosing between either turbo or fuel upgrades -- everyone's reason for not upgrading the turbo is "you can't make the most of it", but nobody holds that against upgrading the fuel system. Seems to me that same rationale applies to either approach. If OP upgrades the turbo, they won't be making the most of it on the stock fuel system... and if they upgrade the fuel system, they won't be making the most of it on the stock turbo.

More importantly, whether or not OP is making the "most" of a fuel or a turbo upgrade is not really a material consideration, anyway. What is relevant is the total cost and the pros / cons delivered as a result of $ spent.

Peak numbers are likely to be fairly similar, and cost is fairly similar, as well. A Kuro turbo will have a stronger top-end, slightly slower spool time, and slightly higher turbo threshold than the OEM unit. If OP likes that tradeoff, why not upgrade the turbo? If the investment is the same either way, having additional performance left in the turbo is not a reason to avoid it.

If the turbo was considerably more expensive or came with considerable drawbacks, I would understand arguing for the fuel system, but in this particular instance, that doesn't seem to be the case. In fact, considering the stock turbo struggles up high on this car, a mild turbo upgrade like the Kuro (even if it is slightly slower to spool and shifts the threshold to a slightly higher rpm) might be considered to be a desirable "feel" mod by a lot of drivers.

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[jmheath357]

Don't fuel upgrades, like 1450cc injectors and a HPFP exceed the capabilities of the stock turbo (at least without seriously stressing reliability)?

I am confused why -- if the price is similar when choosing between either turbo or fuel upgrades -- everyone's reason for not upgrading the turbo is "you can't make the most of it", but nobody holds that against upgrading the fuel system. Seems to me that same rationale applies to either approach. If OP upgrades the turbo, they won't be making the most of it on the stock fuel system... and if they upgrade the fuel system, they won't be making the most of it on the stock turbo.

More importantly, whether or not OP is making the "most" of a fuel or a turbo upgrade is not really a material consideration, anyway. What is relevant is the total cost and the pros / cons delivered as a result of $ spent.

Peak numbers are likely to be fairly similar, and cost is fairly similar, as well. A Kuro turbo will have a stronger top-end, slightly slower spool time, and slightly higher turbo threshold than the OEM unit. If OP likes that tradeoff, why not upgrade the turbo? If the investment is the same either way, having additional performance left in the turbo is not a reason to avoid it.

If the turbo was considerably more expensive or came with considerable drawbacks, I would understand arguing for the fuel system, but in this particular instance, that doesn't seem to be the case. In fact, considering the stock turbo struggles up high on this car, a mild turbo upgrade like the Kuro (even if it is slightly slower to spool and shifts the threshold to a slightly higher rpm) might be considered to be a desirable "feel" mod by a lot of drivers.

Finally, someone gets it.

 

[jmheath357]

in my opinion if you don’t have great fuel available and don’t want to upgrade your fuel system stay with a stock turbo.

The normal kuro can be ran with a stock fuel setup but you will be leaving power on the table since the fuel demand is beyond what the oem system can accommodate.

When/if I do upgrade the turbo, it will be on 93 octane. I don't know how the quality of the gas will be until I get to that point.

I know people say that you will be leaving power on the table by not upgrading the fuel system, but from all the dyno runs I've seen I don't really see a difference when staying on 93 only. Obviously if you wanted to run ethanol blends there would be a major difference between upgrading the fuel system and not, but on straight pump I'm not really seeing it. Can you provide some data supporting the differences between having the stock vs upgraded fuel system with the Kuro?

 

[TW00Si]

Someone is selling a used Kuro turbo in the classified for a very good price. I heard he was open to offers.

 

[jmheath357]

Someone is selling a used Kuro turbo in the classified for a very good price. I heard he was open to offers.

lol, I saw that. I appreciate the heads up but I'm not interested in buying a used one. Also, I'm definitely not buying one until I get my house sold and move back home, get settled in, etc. so who knows how long that will take. Thanks though!

 

[Cueyo]

Don't fuel upgrades, like 1450cc injectors and a HPFP exceed the capabilities of the stock turbo (at least without seriously stressing reliability)?

I am confused why -- if the price is similar when choosing between either turbo or fuel upgrades -- everyone's reason for not upgrading the turbo is "you can't make the most of it", but nobody holds that against upgrading the fuel system. Seems to me that same rationale applies to either approach. If OP upgrades the turbo, they won't be making the most of it on the stock fuel system... and if they upgrade the fuel system, they won't be making the most of it on the stock turbo.

More importantly, whether or not OP is making the "most" of a fuel or a turbo upgrade is not really a material consideration, anyway. What is relevant is the total cost and the pros / cons delivered as a result of $ spent.

Peak numbers are likely to be fairly similar, and cost is fairly similar, as well. A Kuro turbo will have a stronger top-end, slightly slower spool time, and slightly higher turbo threshold than the OEM unit. If OP likes that tradeoff, why not upgrade the turbo? If the investment is the same either way, having additional performance left in the turbo is not a reason to avoid it.

That's where I think the that neither is a good option, would be better off doing every other mod and getting those performance gains before the big stuff like the turbo and fuel. I feel like a turbo and fuel is what you do once you've exhausted the downpipe, intercooler, canbus route

 

[jmheath357]

That's where I think the that neither is a good option, would be better off doing every other mod and getting those performance gains before the big stuff like the turbo and fuel. I feel like a turbo and fuel is what you do once you've exhausted the downpipe, intercooler, canbus route

I don't think I ever specified as I didn't think it was necessary, but I already have a TSP catted DP, PRL FP, PRL T&F IC, and custom e-tune with IMW. I will also likely swap the exhaust before doing a turbo upgrade as well (I asked before hand and was advised that the exhaust would make no difference to the tune and so it was not necessary to buy and install before proceeding with tuning). I don't see the need to do an intake or inlet pipe as it's not necessary to get to where I want to be and I like the superior filtering and ease of maintenance the stock intake/filter provide. I've always ran aftermarket intakes on cars in the past with the oiled filters, including the PRL HVI V2 on my Accord 2.0, but I think I will stick with stock this time. So basically I'm saying I already have exhausted the bolt ons that I'm going to do before going with an upgraded turbo/fuel system.

Also, this thread is completely separate from any handling, braking, or cooling mods that will be done to the car as well, I already have plans for all that. So just in case someone is thinking the money would be better spent on other things, just know other things are already being planned. lol

 

[Cueyo]

I don't think I ever specified as I didn't think it was necessary, but I already have a TSP catted DP, PRL FP, PRL T&F IC, and custom e-tune with IMW.

So that confuses me then. Like we were talking about before, people run just an ic and canflex and make some pretty big gains. Does that mean that a catted DP isn't as impactful as ethanol? I feel like running an upgraded downpipe is always lauded as a big performance increase. Did you upgrade them all at once, or did you get the chance to see how much each added after a tune?

 

[jmheath357]

So that confuses me then. Like we were talking about before, people run just an ic and canflex and make some pretty big gains. Does that mean that a catted DP isn't as impactful as ethanol? I feel like running an upgraded downpipe is always lauded as a big performance increase. Did you upgrade them all at once, or did you get the chance to see how much each added after a tune?

Correct. Downpipes by themselves don't do much, and certainly wouldn't make anywhere near the kind of gains running an ethanol blend will do. They are a supporting mod to help with exhaust flow and EGT's which will help with lessening knock retard when tuning the car for added boost and ignition advance.

So I started by testing the car bone stock and doing acceleration runs using my Dragy to record the times in 4th gear from 60-115mph on a straight and flat stretch of road. I used the same road going the same direction and started at the same point for all tests. I made multiple pulls with each setup to verify the results. I tested in this order:

1. Completely stock, factory tune 91 octane
2. Stock parts with Hondata 91 base map and then TSP Stage 1
3. Added DP/FP with Hondata 91 and then TSP Stage 1
4. Added IC with Hondata 91 and then TSP Stage 1
5. Added custom tuning from IMW (still in work so results are pending...)

The jump from stock to the Hondata 91 tune was almost 1.5 seconds faster, adding the DP/FP netted another .1 second faster, and then adding the IC did not improve acceleration times any further. (I did find this odd though as overall it seemed to add 1-2 degrees of timing due to the cooler IAT's but I didn't really see that show up in the Dragy times) The TSP Stage 1 tune was consistently .05-.1 of a second slower than the Hondata 91 in all scenarios. This also stunned me as from what I had seen online it should've had a lot more power than the 91 base map, but that just wasn't the case for me. Now, it certainly could make a lot more power if given some really good 93 octane, but with the crap 91 we have here in Phoenix, it's a waste of money.

 

[HECTOFL5TYPER]

I back up what Jester said. See like you, I came across a good deal on a like New Kuro turbo, I too wanted to upgrade the turbo only and leave the fuel system stock. I did my research and everything pointed to what everyone is saying here, upgrade the fuel system. I didn’t want to spend the money to upgrade the fuel system. Ultimately I went ahead and upgraded my HPFP, Injectors and turbo, currently getting tuned by Jester, let me tell you 100% worth it. I would encourage you to do the same, you won’t regret it.

 

[Jester04]

Don't fuel upgrades, like 1450cc injectors and a HPFP exceed the capabilities of the stock turbo (at least without seriously stressing reliability)?

I am confused why -- if the price is similar when choosing between either turbo or fuel upgrades -- everyone's reason for not upgrading the turbo is "you can't make the most of it", but nobody holds that against upgrading the fuel system. Seems to me that same rationale applies to either approach. If OP upgrades the turbo, they won't be making the most of it on the stock fuel system... and if they upgrade the fuel system, they won't be making the most of it on the stock turbo.

More importantly, whether or not OP is making the "most" of a fuel or a turbo upgrade is not really a material consideration, anyway. What is relevant is the total cost and the pros / cons delivered as a result of $ spent.

Peak numbers are likely to be fairly similar, and cost is fairly similar, as well. A Kuro turbo will have a stronger top-end, slightly slower spool time, and slightly higher turbo threshold than the OEM unit. If OP likes that tradeoff, why not upgrade the turbo? If the investment is the same either way, having additional performance left in the turbo is not a reason to avoid it.

If the turbo was considerably more expensive or came with considerable drawbacks, I would understand arguing for the fuel system, but in this particular instance, that doesn't seem to be the case. In fact, considering the stock turbo struggles up high on this car, a mild turbo upgrade like the Kuro (even if it is slightly slower to spool and shifts the threshold to a slightly higher rpm) might be considered to be a desirable "feel" mod by a lot of drivers.

On to address this, in my book it is always best to upgrade the fuel system first. Especially if running ethanol.

You can run a car and run out of turbo no problem. But run out of fuel that is reckless and extremely dangerous for the engine.

And to answer the OP’s question, just because they are making the same power does not mean it is running as safely. The compromise most tuners do to eek out the power out of a stock fuel system is to lean out the car and stretch the fuel pump capability. When you have excess fuel to spare you can tune everything extremely safe without constraints.

 

[jmheath357]

On to address this, in my book it is always best to upgrade the fuel system first. Especially if running ethanol.

You can run a car and run out of turbo no problem. But run out of fuel that is reckless and extremely dangerous for the engine.

And to answer the OP’s question, just because they are making the same power does not mean it is running as safely. The compromise most tuners do to eek out the power out of a stock fuel system is to lean out the car and stretch the fuel pump capability. When you have excess fuel to spare you can tune everything extremely safe without constraints.

I totally understand that, that's why I'm trying to see if I can get people to send me data logs with and without the fuel system upgraded so I can see those differences. It's not that I disagree or don't believe in upgrading the fuel system, I'd just like to see the data. @Jester04 do you have any data logs for cars you've tuned with the Kuro either with or without an upgraded fuel system you would be willing to share with me?

 

[Jester04]

I totally understand that, that's why I'm trying to see if I can get people to send me data logs with and without the fuel system upgraded so I can see those differences. It's not that I disagree or don't believe in upgrading the fuel system, I'd just like to see the data. @Jester04 do you have any data logs for cars you've tuned with the Kuro either with or without an upgraded fuel system you would be willing to share with me?

I would have to dig through a mountain of datalogs to find one but I will try and get one for you.

 

[jmheath357]

I would have to dig through a mountain of datalogs to find one but I will try and get one for you.

If it's too much trouble, don't spend a ton of time on it. That's why I was asking the general members first instead of reaching out to tuners as I figured it would be easier for an individual that only has to go through their own data logs rather than hundreds or possibly thousands to find them. I really appreciate it though!

 

[Jester04]

If it's too much trouble, don't spend a ton of time on it. That's why I was asking the general members first instead of reaching out to tuners as I figured it would be easier for an individual that only has to go through their own data logs rather than hundreds or possibly thousands to find them. I really appreciate it though!

Will keep you posted.

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