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Does any1 feel Honda will finally listen, and the 11th gen Si will be a huge improvement power wise?

JNRS

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I drove a 2014 FRS with a slush box trans a couple of months ago and it didn’t feel slow to me. I was surprised based on the torque numbers. A performance pack BRZ with manual trans would be plenty of fun. Of course it costs $30k and I wonder if Subaru/Toyota will spend the money on a redesign for a dedicated platform. I doubt it.
If they do, I would be suprised. Subaru dealerships don't really want the vehicle because a RWD vehicle doesn't really go with their brand. Toyota is getting the Supra, so that will add another lightweight RWD vehicle to their lineup, although it will only be offered in an automatic transmission and be more expensive. Both manufacturers will need to have a reason to want to invest in updating the 86/BRZ and I don't see why they would want to, especially Subaru.
 

Vrruumm

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I don’t think they will ever increase the hp much from where it’s at, look at its history. They like to keep the price low.

Have to remember though, gti came out few years before current si. The next gen gti is suppose to be 250hp
The current GTI makes 220hp to the wheels. The Focus ST made 235hp to the wheels. The Focus ST was advertised at 268hp, so I think the current GTI makes around 250hp at the crank. The SI makes around 200hp to the wheels. If they change the compressor wheel and increase the redline slightly, they could gain 10hp without any large modifications. 210whp for the SI seems very reasonable if they keep the L15 engine. For reference the Golf R makes around 255whp, so a 250whp GTI seems unrealistic at this point in time.
 

golfer883

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The current GTI makes 220hp to the wheels. The Focus ST made 235hp to the wheels. The Focus ST was advertised at 268hp, so I think the current GTI makes around 250hp at the crank. The SI makes around 200hp to the wheels. If they change the compressor wheel and increase the redline slightly, they could gain 10hp without any large modifications. 210whp for the SI seems very reasonable if they keep the L15 engine. For reference the Golf R makes around 255whp, so a 250whp GTI seems unrealistic at this point in time.
For 2019, they tuned the gti for 228 hp, up from 220. It’s said on many car sites, mk8 gti will be 250 and R 350hp. We will see.

I’ll prob get a car in year or so and have to decide on mk8 gti, type R or variant they come out with possible for next year. Si too slow
 

xbbnx

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The current GTI makes 220hp to the wheels. The Focus ST made 235hp to the wheels. The Focus ST was advertised at 268hp, so I think the current GTI makes around 250hp at the crank. The SI makes around 200hp to the wheels. If they change the compressor wheel and increase the redline slightly, they could gain 10hp without any large modifications. 210whp for the SI seems very reasonable if they keep the L15 engine. For reference the Golf R makes around 255whp, so a 250whp GTI seems unrealistic at this point in time.
All I see is a bunch of horse power numbers, but you seem to forget the other equation, weight. And that is why the Si keeps up with those cars you mentioned and doesnt get blown out. Give it another 10-15hp and it'll keep up all the same with the GTI's power bump, and that is what i think Honda will do.
 

Vrruumm

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All I see is a bunch of horse power numbers, but you seem to forget the other equation, weight. And that is why the Si keeps up with those cars you mentioned and doesnt get blown out. Give it another 10-15hp and it'll keep up all the same with the GTI's power bump, and that is what i think Honda will do.
I am assuming weight stays the same, which it probably won't.
 

golfer883

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All I see is a bunch of horse power numbers, but you seem to forget the other equation, weight. And that is why the Si keeps up with those cars you mentioned and doesnt get blown out. Give it another 10-15hp and it'll keep up all the same with the GTI's power bump, and that is what i think Honda will do.
Current gti is 3,000 pounds, si is 2900, so 100 pound difference. Next gen gti is suppose to be lighter. All I’m doing is pointing out how the current si could of been much better
 

xbbnx

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Current gti is 3,000 pounds, si is 2900, so 100 pound difference. Next gen gti is suppose to be lighter. All I’m doing is pointing out how the current si could of been much better
GTI- 3062
Si- 2889-2906
Difference=173-156lbs respectfully
That's a big enough weight difference to close the hp gap.
 
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xbbnx

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The GTI in theory should sacrifice 10hp for every 100lbs weight disadvantage (220hp vs Si 205hp) putting it fairly even to the Si. The only reason the GTI edges the Si in straight line speed is it's tremendous torque advantage 258lb ft vs the Si 192lb ft (a whopping 66lb ft difference) and how much earlier it comes on in the rev range (1500 rpm vs Si 2100rpm).
 
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golfer883

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GTI- 3062
Si- 2889-2906
Difference=173-156lbs respectfully
That's a big enough weight difference to close the hp gap.
I wish,,
And 2019 gti is 228hp not 220.

Btw, according to VW small car boss next gen mk8 suppose to be 150 lighter and then this current si will be even further behind. The si cost less though, which it should
 

jjtheprince

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Personally, I think it's time more auto makers (Honda in particular) started making vehicles with more "balls" lol. I'm not a fan of domestic vehicles at all but look at what Fiat/Dodge has done with the Hellcat vehicles and Demon Challenger. GM's Camaro ZL-1 is a hot ride too. Imagine a CTR tuned to around 400hp from the factory, and a Civic Si with 300hp off the showroom floor.
 

Justinus

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I didn't read the other posts but will add my 2 cents on the original topic...

Honda is in a bit of a conundrum in that they don't have an efficient powertrain to address the 220-240 HP range. It's almost guaranteed that they won't go backwards in the Si's fuel economy numbers. And it would be very difficult to get the 1.5T's fuel efficiency in the 2.0T.

I think they'll further tweak the 1.5T for another 7-10 HP. It's a good motor but needs a little more breathing capacity up top to give it some real character. If Honda adds variable lift and pairs with a slightly larger turbo, I could see that happening.

Regardless, I think the 2021 ILX will tell us a lot of what's to come...
If you watch the technology video on the Honda 1.5L it has variable exhaust lift, which has been branded on the Type R as VTEC and on the very same 1.5L in other markets besides North America.

Why they chose to remove the VTEC branding is confusing, but the feature is definitely there.

I don't think there's any problem with the stock setup for intake or exhaust at stock power levels, or even slightly higher like 215-220HP. We're just looking at Honda's arbitrary engineering decisions.


As a more general comment for the thread, If the way Honda has specced the power for this engine means I can beat the shit out of it for 200,000 miles, I have zero issue with that. I'd much rather be able to rail on it whenever I want than wonder how soon something is going to break.
 

golfer883

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If you watch the technology video on the Honda 1.5L it has variable exhaust lift, which has been branded on the Type R as VTEC and on the very same 1.5L in other markets besides North America.

Why they chose to remove the VTEC branding is confusing, but the feature is definitely there.

I don't think there's any problem with the stock setup for intake or exhaust at stock power levels, or even slightly higher like 215-220HP. We're just looking at Honda's arbitrary engineering decisions.


As a more general comment for the thread, If the way Honda has specced the power for this engine means I can beat the shit out of it for 200,000 miles, I have zero issue with that. I'd much rather be able to rail on it whenever I want than wonder how soon something is going to break.
Well when you throw a little 1.5 liter in, I agree, it needs to be tuned lower hp for oem brand reliability concerns Honda might have. That 2.0 liter engine should of gone in but that would increase cost too much for the Si, unless they agree to increase the price of si, will never happen
 

Design

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If you watch the technology video on the Honda 1.5L it has variable exhaust lift, which has been branded on the Type R as VTEC and on the very same 1.5L in other markets besides North America.
It's only available in the Accord's 1.5T at the moment.
 

Justinus

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It's only available in the Accord's 1.5T at the moment.
After rereading and rewatching Honda's 1.5L announcement, I think the 1.5L has VTC but no VTEC, despite being marketed as VTEC Turbo in some markets.
 

Civicbruh

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I personally am happy with the power. While I do have the Hondata +6 PSI Tunes ~230HP I don't think I would want more. I love going into twisties with this car, whole lot of fun. If I wanted to just go straight with a bunch of cheap power I would have bought a mustang or something. Power isn't everything, at least for me. For times when I do want to go fast I just jump on my bike, cheapest and fastest thing you can buy lol.
 
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