Don’t Pay Markups

[TennisFan19]

im going to say 95% of the buyers will pay over sticker. by no means do i want to, but i think my limit is 5k over.

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[nowaytoescape]

im going to say 95% of the buyers will pay over sticker. by no means do i want to, but i think my limit is 5k over.

I would say less than 95%. There’s plenty of dealerships willing to sell at MSRP. You just gotta do the research to find them. I’m not settling on finding one for MSRP. Neither will I settle on not finding a Si for MSRP. If you’re patient it’ll come to you.

 

[Plombhpa]

Im willing to wager a ton that if you take that all or nothing stance there is a high likelihood you just wont get one.

And Tuscon has add ons which is similar to markups.

I paid no addons. Autonation marked up cars after mine but if no one offers to pay for markups there won’t be any. You have to hang together. It is those who have to have it now that ruins it for everyone else. Hold the line.

 

[mbaapk]

I paid no addons. Autonation marked up cars after mine but if no one offers to pay for markups there won’t be any. You have to hang together. It is those who have to have it now that ruins it for everyone else. Hold the line.

You are insinuating a prisoners dilemma and for those that abstain there will be others that don’t. Your suggestion requires perfect adherence. Check out game theory which you may find illuminating. The anti markup agenda sounds great, but I want a fn Type R and am willing to do a fair amount of add ons to get one.

 

[Plombhpa]

The got to have it now generation. By the way it is an FL5.

 

[mbaapk]

The got to have it now generation. By the way it is an FL5.

Last ICE, now or never with demand / supply. Normally patience is a virtue, sometimes fast and with force is the right move.

 

[CTR]

How else do you propose selling a very limited vehicle to a large enthusiast market? A lottery system? Whoever pre-orders at midnight on launch day gets one?

If it was first come, first sold you would see tons of "new" cars on the open market just like any other limited supply consumer product with individuals flipping them for profit.

Markups were created to give the people who really want the car a chance to get them. Not to mention many dealers are only getting 1 or 2 of these per year so they want to maximize their profit like any other business. Even if the MSRP is $40K you'll probably see the FL5 used market in the over $50K range for quite some time (just like low mileage FK8).

 

[Turbonium]

Most dealers that don't charge markup will only sell local or to past customers. Of course nobody wants to pay markup, but to be delusional and think that you can just keep waiting until the low inventory is sold out is a terrible idea. Other dealerships will then buy the ctr at markup and put it on their lot for more.

I mean used fk8 are still more than msrp today. Alot of people didn't even get to buy the fk8 bc they stuck to their guns in 2021, guess what most ended up doing, not having one or buying one for $10k over msrp used and abused. Most fk8 owners are probably planning on selling their cars and using the profit to put towards the fl5, so you have them with positive equity to compete against.

 

[s2kdriver80]

How else do you propose selling a very limited vehicle to a large enthusiast market? A lottery system? Whoever pre-orders at midnight on launch day gets one?

If it was first come, first sold you would see tons of "new" cars on the open market just like any other limited supply consumer product with individuals flipping them for profit.

Markups were created to give the people who really want the car a chance to get them. Not to mention many dealers are only getting 1 or 2 of these per year so they want to maximize their profit like any other business. Even if the MSRP is $40K you'll probably see the FL5 used market in the over $50K range for quite some time (just like low mileage FK8).

Correct. As shitty as it sounds, this is the reason that price "gouging" at the pump is a good thing during local disasters. I don't understand how it is "gouging" if the gas station is not going to be getting much more gas, more likely they will lose revenue even with the higher prices. The higher prices give the maximum number of people a chance to get the minimum amount of gas that they need. Makes people think about filling up their jugs, mitigates shortages, minimizes long lines, and incentivizes suppliers from farther away to make the trip to alleviate the supply issue for everyone if the price is worth their effort. Market signals need to work, so people could make proper decisions. The free market is the equalizer, albeit not perfect. Nobody likes paying high prices, but if they sold every CTR at MSRP, they would sell out like hotcakes, and for those that were able to acquire one, many of them would flip them for profit.

 

[Ulti-Resis]

At the end of the day there are people that will pay the mark up no matter how many won't.

FK8 isn't selling above new price in the UK, even in current economic and supply circumstances as far as I've seen. If I'm wrong about that then I hope it stays that way and if i decide to, I can sell mine, pay for an FL5 and maybe even have spare change. I'd expect to get £27.5k for mine with 5000 miles on it at 3 years old but realistically I may be looking more like 25k private sale. Trade in with Honda, they'll probably try to offer the GFV (Guaranteed Future Value) which I think was 16k assuming mileage of 30,000 at 5 years.

Unless someone really wants the FK8 over the new FL5 because they prefer it or are a collector or something then why would they pay above the new FL5 price?

 

[RoidRage]

At the end of the day there are people that will pay the mark up no matter how many won't.

FK8 isn't selling above new price in the UK, even in current economic and supply circumstances as far as I've seen. If I'm wrong about that then I hope it stays that way and if i decide to, I can sell mine, pay for an FL5 and maybe even have spare change. I'd expect to get £27.5k for mine with 5000 miles on it at 3 years old but realistically I may be looking more like 25k private sale. Trade in with Honda, they'll probably try to offer the GFV (Guaranteed Future Value) which I think was 16k assuming mileage of 30,000 at 5 years.

Unless someone really wants the FK8 over the new FL5 because they prefer it or are a collector or something then why would they pay above the new FL5 price?

Paying above market doesn't mean you are paying more to get the same product. In my case, if I get the car I will be rust proofing, tinting, PPF'ing the car. To sweeten my offer, I asked my dealer to roll those packages into the price of the vehicle. This allows me to meet the "markup" quota needed to be top of the list.

I'm going to get those services done either way, so why not utilize them to get myself a better spot. Additionally, I was ok to add tire and wheel warranty, to protect the expensive OEM (possibly forged) wheels.

Again, markup doesn't mean you get nothing in return for ur $$. Just be smart with it. Instead of complaining about a business trying to make money on a ultra rare product, work with them so that you can both get what you want via different avenues and product packaging.

However, if the dealer simply wants $$ with no added value to you, then fuck those guys. Lol. The markup system I mentioned is how Canadian dealers "markup" cars using packages. I not sure if other regions markups are rhe same TBH.

 

[Tickle]

Paying above market doesn't mean you are paying more to get the same product. In my case, if I get the car I will be rust proofing, tinting, PPF'ing the car. To sweeten my offer, I asked my dealer to roll those packages into the price of the vehicle. This allows me to meet the "markup" quota needed to be top of the list.

I'm going to get those services done either way, so why not utilize them to get myself a better spot. Additionally, I was ok to add tire and wheel warranty, to protect the expensive OEM (possibly forged) wheels.

Again, markup doesn't mean you get nothing in return for ur $$. Just be smart with it. Instead of complaining about a business trying to make money on a ultra rare product, work with them so that you can both get what you want via different avenues and product packaging.

However, if the dealer simply wants $$ with no added value to you, then fuck those guys. Lol. The markup system I mentioned is how Canadian dealers "markup" cars using packages. I not sure if other regions markups are rhe same TBH.

Make sure you understand the details in that wheel and tire warranty. Like maybe what a cap would be on refinishing or replacing the the wheels. In the end I'm sure it's of value to get it on this car. I just want make sure you have an accurate expectation of the product you are purchasing.

A lot of you guys hit the nail on the head.

As a representative of dealer that sells at MSRP we prefer to sell to people in our market. Do not get me wrong. The money l spends but we prefer to give Betty down the street the opportunity to replace her CR-V that was totaled before some guy three hours away who is only talking to you because you sell at MSRP. He will never come back for maintenance or refer anyone local to you.

The Type R is even more so.

The thing is... These cars are not yours. They are the property of the dealer and the owner. They know what they have. They see what other places sell them for. They know what they go for at the auction. They get to choose what they want to do with the vehicle. Just like you get to choose if you want to do business with them or not.

Weekly I see cars sell at Manheim for over retail money all day long. Dealers don't have lots of new cars to sell so they don't get the trades they depend on. So then they turn to the auction to buy and watch cars go for over retail to rental car agencies. So even if you do find a sliver of opportunity on a pre owned car... By the time fees and reconditioning are invested. The cars ability to sell at a profit in a transparent market driven world are quite slim.

So I don't hate a dealer for doing these decisions. I just appreciate the ones who don't that much more.

 

[RODSCIVIC]

I missed out on the previous gen because I didn't want to pay a markup, $5k markup was a no go for me, then the CTR just kept going up in value and I missed the boat.

I will say, pay what you feel comfortable paying. The car won't lose it's value, especially this one that is a bit more subdued and will attract non-enthusiast.

We all know that YTers and Social Media stars are going to be paying above $15k markup to be the "first", they make that cash up in a couple of videos. Start saving.

 

[RoidRage]

I missed out on the previous gen because I didn't want to pay a markup, $5k markup was a no go for me, then the CTR just kept going up in value and I missed the boat.

I will say, pay what you feel comfortable paying. The car won't lose it's value, especially this one that is a bit more subdued and will attract non-enthusiast.

We all know that YTers and Social Media stars are going to be paying above $15k markup to be the "first", they make that cash up in a couple of videos. Start saving.

If you look at the FL5 as an investment. There are very few cars that will return the same ROI in the coming years. Only the GRC/GRY will match it.

$5k markup is a very small price to pay for what u are getting in value if you plan on keeping this long term.

Financially speaking, missing the boat will cost u more as an investment opp.

 

[keller]

On civicx there are threads listing naughty and nice dealers with 1000 pages combined. I've read countless posts there. It was interesting reading many many people with strong opinions on ADMs that never again posted on the forum. Others that were set on a minimum markup that later had to pay a lot more. The truth is the process of purchasing a CTR was mostly a shitty experience.

There was this Type R finder (https://stevenmatchett.github.io/civic-ui/) that we used to track for in transit units. This website had the VIN number of each unit, so we could track when a new car was added to stock or sold. Since I was looking for a FK8 myself, I wrote a script to get statistics from this website. By July 2021, honda was selling 100 units/week in the US. By August, there were no more in transit units and inventory was only going down. When I finally pulled the trigger, there were only 400 for sale. 3 days later the first red camo pictures appeared (https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/2022-civic-type-r-spied-testing-near-nürburgring-ahead-of-next-weeks-track-testing.50087/) and by the end of that week honda had sold so many that there were only 80 FK8s left. Markups obviously went to insane levels. Honestly I'm glad there were ADMs, otherwise I couldn't have bought a brand new FK8 7 months after the end of production.

I don't know about the availability of FL5s, yet I'm certain the demand will be higher than before. It's really unfortunate, but I suspect many of you might miss the boat like so many others before. At the end of the day it's just a car, but we only live once =)

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