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gtman

gtman

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I also thought about something last night that could also explain the slower speed... on dyno tests the 10th gens showed to be under rated by honda making something closer to 200hp at the crank and 176 to the wheels. It's possible when Honda tweaked the engine and transmission that the car is no longer under rated and actually is making 180 at the crank and now only ~165 at the wheels. Then factor in weight and it suddenly makes sense.

I shudder to think what kind of time the hatchback (which was already slower and heavier than the sedan by almost .5 sec) will have without a good power bump on the sport trims (close to 8 seconds if the sedans gain is any indication) which is IMO kind of unacceptable for what will be a $30k car when the the Turbo Mazda3 exists for around $31k, the Accord Sport 2.0t exists for around $32k. For that price, the sport touring hatch should get AT LEAST the 192 Accord tune, if not a 200+ tune borrowed from the Si, even if it doesn't get all of the same Si enhancements.
I was checking out Alex on Autos review and he estimated 7.6 seconds 0-60 for the Touring. That is hugely slower than the 10th gen. Alex got 6.6 seconds on a 2016 Touring.

 

ebhaynz

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Honestly, this 11th gen only seems like a good upgrade if you are from a ninth or older gen Civic. If you have a tenth, this honestly does not look much of an upgrade and I would rather at least wait for the 12th gen in the next few years.
I agree, although the newer hatch intrigues me I'm thinking to myself; "I've got a very nice 10th Gen Si that's paid off, no maint issues, low mileage, super fun to drive, probably the best Si ever". Do I want to go to a freaking dealer, who I hate because they lie and treat me like SH!T, spend tens of thousands of dollars, just to buy a similar car to what I have now?"
No, what I'm going to do is enjoy my current Civic for a few more years, when I see a car I really like I'll buy it..around 2024.
 

JBCutlerson

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I went to look at a white 2022 Touring last night, the first my dealer got in. Meh. I'm not really a white car kinda guy and although from some angles it looks nice, there was just something off-putting about it. The dealer also had two black 2022 LXs in his yard. After one day, they were covered with dust and crap but I have to say looking at their front end reminded me of a 1974 Chevrolet Impala!

This really reminds me of what happened when the lease on my 8th gen Civic was up and I went to look at the 9th gen. Sitting inside of it reminded me of some early 80's Oldsmobile and the overall car styling was just boring as heck. So I went for a Kia Optima. The engine on that left me on the road during vacation so no more Kias. I was happy to pick up a 10th gen touring. It's lease is almost up and I was looking forward to the new Civic but I'm really conflicted. I like that reports seem to indicate it drives well and has a great stereo, good fuel economy, etc., but that dash looks a bit too retro for me and the outside is just really not happening for me. Maybe in silver but white and black are definitely off the list. Sonic gray makes it look looks like surplus world war II equipment. I don't know, maybe I'll go for a left-over 2021 10th gen or switch to a Mazda 3 or CX-30. I have to say Mazda has some beautiful colors.
 
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RobbJK

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This really reminds me of what happened when the lease on my 8th gen Civic was up and I went to look at the 9th gen. Sitting inside of it reminded me of some early 80's Oldsmobile and the overall car styling was just boring as heck. So I went for a Kia Optima. The engine on that left me on the road during vacation so no more Kias. I was happy to pick up a 10th gen touring. It's lease is almost up and I was looking forward to the new Civic but I'm really conflicted. I like that reports seem to indicate it drives well and has a great stereo, good fuel economy, etc., but that dash looks a bit too retro for me and the outside is just really not happening for me. Maybe in silver but white and black are definitely off the list. Sonic gray makes it look looks like surplus world war II equipment. I don't know, maybe I'll go for a left-over 2021 10th gen or switch to a Mazda 3 or CS-30. I have to say Mazda has some beautiful colors.
I'm kind of there with you... my lease is up around March of next year on my 19' EX coupe. I'm conflicted with this generation, though the styling has grown on me, and I'm waiting to see what happens with the hatchback specifically if it'll get any performance bumps over the sedan. But with no more coupes, the so-so styling... I've looked into the Mazda3 Turbo, the Accord Sport 2.0T, the Veloster Turbo, pretty much anything in that 28-31k price range that has decent performance and better styling (IMO) than the new civics. Thankfully I have a bit more time to wait it out and see what happens. The new Acura compact could be an option if the price stays reasonable. I've even been looking at the Kia K5 GT... but like you, I'm wary of Kia/Hyundai because of their recent engine issues. The Mazda3 is probably the closest runner up... but all the reviews seem just "meh" about it. Nice interior/exterior, but lacks the fun to drive nature of older mazdas thanks in part to the dumbed down rear suspension setup.
 

ezthrilla

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I'm kind of there with you... my lease is up around March of next year on my 19' EX coupe. I'm conflicted with this generation, though the styling has grown on me, and I'm waiting to see what happens with the hatchback specifically if it'll get any performance bumps over the sedan. But with no more coupes, the so-so styling... I've looked into the Mazda3 Turbo, the Accord Sport 2.0T, the Veloster Turbo, pretty much anything in that 28-31k price range that has decent performance and better styling (IMO) than the new civics. Thankfully I have a bit more time to wait it out and see what happens. The new Acura compact could be an option if the price stays reasonable. I've even been looking at the Kia K5 GT... but like you, I'm wary of Kia/Hyundai because of their recent engine issues. The Mazda3 is probably the closest runner up... but all the reviews seem just "meh" about it. Nice interior/exterior, but lacks the fun to drive nature of older mazdas thanks in part to the dumbed down rear suspension setup.
Robb,

Considering Mazda will no longer offer the MAzda6 in the U.S. after the 2021 model year. maybe you can buy one for a great deal.
 
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I went to look at a white 2022 Touring last night, the first my dealer got in. Meh. I'm not really a white car kinda guy and although from some angles it looks nice, there was just something off-putting about it. The dealer also had two black 2022 LXs in his yard. After one day, they were covered with dust and crap but I have to say looking at their front end reminded me of a 1974 Chevrolet Impala!

This really reminds me of what happened when the lease on my 8th gen Civic was up and I went to look at the 9th gen. Sitting inside of it reminded me of some early 80's Oldsmobile and the overall car styling was just boring as heck. So I went for a Kia Optima. The engine on that left me on the road during vacation so no more Kias. I was happy to pick up a 10th gen touring. It's lease is almost up and I was looking forward to the new Civic but I'm really conflicted. I like that reports seem to indicate it drives well and has a great stereo, good fuel economy, etc., but that dash looks a bit too retro for me and the outside is just really not happening for me. Maybe in silver but white and black are definitely off the list. Sonic gray makes it look looks like surplus world war II equipment. I don't know, maybe I'll go for a left-over 2021 10th gen or switch to a Mazda 3 or CX-30. I have to say Mazda has some beautiful colors.
Don't insult a 1974 Chevrolet Impala like that lol.
 

Feddy_Ace

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The more I look at driving videos the more it becomes apparent that Honda de-tuned the 11th gen CVT in order to increase fuel economy. There seems to be a lot of fake shifting now where the 10th gen would only kick back at redline. The relative fun of the CVT is making it climb revs like a maniac and if Honda took that away from it, then it explains why it’s slower and will ultimately be less fun to drive than the 10th gen.

I’m interested to see how it drives. Compared to the 10th gen, the 11th gen takes advantage of the longer hood to push the engine back a decent amount to where it’s more over the front axel. That could certainly make it handle better and have a better weight distribution. This is the only reason I’m still interested to see what they have in store with the hatchback. Better handling and a manual might at least get me to test drive it and see if it’s worth making the jump.
 
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gtman

gtman

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The more I look at driving videos the more it becomes apparent that Honda de-tuned the 11th gen CVT in order to increase fuel economy. There seems to be a lot of fake shifting now where the 10th gen would only kick back at redline. The relative fun of the CVT is making it climb revs like a maniac and if Honda took that away from it, then it explains why it’s slower and will ultimately be less fun to drive than the 10th gen.
I agree, I think it was detuned. The published manufacturer numbers don't always tell the full story.

Remember when Hondata tested their 10th gen Touring sedan against a 9th gen Si back in the day? We all were surprised to see the 10th gen CVT Touring won. Then Hondata dyno'd the car at 190/190 (at the wheels) and we all realized how low Honda's published numbers were.

Plus I have the feeling in addition to the 11th's weight gain, the gearing may be taller.

The new car is solid and will be a mainstream hit, but for a lot of us who enjoy smaller and sportier, it's a disappointment.
 
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gtman

gtman

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Feddy_Ace

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I agree, I think it was detuned. The published manufacturer numbers don't always tell the full story.

Remember when Hondata tested their 10th gen Touring sedan against a 9th gen Si back in the day? We all were surprised to see the 10th gen CVT Touring won. Then Hondata dyno'd the car at 190/190 (at the wheels) and we all realized how low Honda's published numbers were.

Plus I have the feeling in addition to the 11th's weight gain, the gearing may be taller.

The new car is solid, but for a lot of us who enjoy smaller and sportier, it's a disappointment.
Exactly what I was thinking of. Even if Hondata tends to dyno on the higher side, everyone who tested the base 1.5T saw that Honda was sandbagging. So it’s confusing as to why Honda would change a good thing it had going.

I’m thinking that with the Clarity now discontinued and no more small cars like the Fit, the Civic has to carry the load of bumping up Honda’s avg fuel economy rating and keeps environmental regulations satisfied. They can say they tuned the CVT for smoother driving yadda yadda yadda, but with the auto industry it always comes down to money.
 

hoodlum

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I would think the Hatchback would be heavier and so would be slightly slower yet. I’d hate to see the 2.0l performance now.

Maybe the manual will provide better performance numbers now.
 
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gtman

gtman

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After doing a bit of research, I found the final drive numbers for the 10th and 11th Civic Touring CVT sedans:

10th: 4.811

11th: 3.238

That's a pretty substantial difference. Combined with the higher curb weight and more unsprung weight with the 18's, it's no wonder the 11th is quite a bit slower. On the positive side, it should mean great mpgs and a quieter, lower rpm cruise at highway speeds
 
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fjrman

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Civics4Ever

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Damn happy I bought a 10th gen. The 11th is boring, dull, slower and more expensive😁. Only improvement I like is the new sound system.
 
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