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gtman

gtman

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RobbJK

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The weird part is that Honda told various auto reviewers that the new civic was admittedly slower... but according to their internal testing it only lagged behind the 10th gen by 1-2 tenths of a second (a much more understandable difference IMO)... but now we're seeing everything from 7.5-7.9 which is WAY more than 1-2 tenths compared to the 6.7-6.8 the 10th gens did. So why is Honda bothering to lie knowing full well the auto reviewers and enthusiasts know better.

I'd like to see a side by side drag race between the 10th touring and 11th touring, just to really see how things stack up.

I'm really hoping that the hatch sport touring gets a further power bump to make up for its extra weight over the sedan... either 192hp from accord, or copy the output of the future Si (minus it's other performance enhancements) so at least there would be something comparable on the hatch to the Si sedan. If it doesn't and just has carryover everything it's going to be 8+ seconds getting to 60 which is like... Corolla slow
 

hoodlum

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The weird part is that Honda told various auto reviewers that the new civic was admittedly slower... but according to their internal testing it only lagged behind the 10th gen by 1-2 tenths of a second (a much more understandable difference IMO)... but now we're seeing everything from 7.5-7.9 which is WAY more than 1-2 tenths compared to the 6.7-6.8 the 10th gens did. So why is Honda bothering to lie knowing full well the auto reviewers and enthusiasts know better.
It looks like they were not lying if they compared with the 10th gen refresh as it looks like that is where the big performance drop occurred. Maybe someone needs to do a test between orig 10th gen, 10th gen refresh and 11th.
 


RobbJK

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It looks like they were not lying if they compared with the 10th gen refresh as it looks like that is where the big performance drop occurred. Maybe someone needs to do a test between orig 10th gen, 10th gen refresh and 11th.
I have had both a 2016 pre refresh and post refresh 2019... there is zero difference in the performance of my two models. Certainly nothing amounting to anything near a full second slower. As far as I know, any tests done on the post refresh civics showed identical performance numbers to the pre refreshed models, as I'm sure people would've taken notice.
 

RobbJK

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So are Honda's officially posted final drive ratio spec numbers wrong?
No idea. Based off of a quick google search of a couple online sources like model/trim combos of the pre and post refresh 10th gens were all within 1/10th of a second of each other Sedans 6.7-6.8 as their best numbers. Hatches had a best times of 6.9-7.1 depending on trim. Coupes posted 6.6-6.7 best times. So either Honda did way more than just tweak the CVT, or there are other factors at play to slow these cars down by a second or more. Honda said they made changes to both the CVT and the Turbo to increase efficiency (a lot of friction reduction mostly).

But as I and others have said... the 10th gens consistently dyno'd over their rated numbers.... my guess is Honda brought those real world numbers down to more closely align with the actual rated numbers meaning overall probably a net loss of 10-15 actual horsepower to the wheels despite the 6hp bump they advertise. All to squeeze out maybe 1mpg more depending on driving style. My 2019 EX coupe averages over 31 mpg, with a personal best of 43mpg on a long freeway trip... mpg was hardly an issue that required such changes.

As other's have mentioned, the good thing is, due to the carryover nature of the engines, it should be easy for Hondata/Ktuner to come up with tunes and mapping that will override whatever Honda has done with their programming and easily get those numbers back. It's just a shame that someone would have to risk possibly losing their warranty coverage and spend a few hundred dollars just to do that...
 

CR-X

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So are Honda's officially posted final drive ratio spec numbers wrong?
I dont know much about how CVTs final drive works but there is no way that % change in ratio would not be noticed. Its 48.5% taller.
The weight gain and the fact that the 10th gen made much more power than stated are likely the reasons behind the slower 11th.
 

silverrascal

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I had a 2016 sedan and currently a 2019 hatch - and my butt-dyno couldn't detect any noticeable difference in performance between the two cars. But I will say I was rather surprised to see performance reviews of the 11th gen to be less than impressive. Is Honda trying to push me away to other car brands?
 

maddmatt02

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I dont know much about how CVTs final drive works but there is no way that % change in ratio would not be noticed. Its 48.5% taller.
The weight gain and the fact that the 10th gen made much more power than stated are likely the reasons behind the slower 11th.
No idea but it's possible that even though the transmission was technically capable of creating a ratio of 2.645 initially before making its sweep upwards, it was never programed to do so and now with the taller final drive they did program it to *select* the lower ratio for *first*... would allow a bit of the tranamission internals to be spinning slower at cruising speeds than before... maybe helping with heat/longevity/fluid life/who knows.

I never even considered the cvt in the 10th and I still don't with the 11th so it looks like maybe the hatch if I got another because supposedly we'll see a manual there. I hated the exterior at first and it's grown on me a little but I still like the 10th significantly more so we'll see what the 11th hatch looks like. I do like the 11th interior. For performance I never leave anything stock so not too worried there.

BUT before I bought a new civic I'd probably buy a used accord sport 2.0T/6MT (can't buy new anymore, sorry Honda)
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