Limp Mode on first track day

[turbo8765]

Jester and PointBy... both great points.

Not questioning anyone else's experience, mine is just another data point for the community. I've not yet run the CTR in the heat of the summer, I may never. But others may have a similar use case.

I've not raced the CTR, no current plans to, only DEs. Although I'm interested to see if they're competitive in NASA TT as development progresses. I suspect they may be...

Other than pulling in braking points slightly, I'm doing what it's capable of....

PointBy... did you have limp mode due to high water temp that ended a session early?

I'm still working through all the info/data on this forum. Has anyone (non vendor) done objective testing pre/post radiator or oil cooler? It's an undertaking for sure.

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[Jester04]

Jester and PointBy... both great points.

Not questioning anyone else's experience, mine is just another data point for the community. I've not yet run the CTR in the heat of the summer, I may never. But others may have a similar use case.

I've not raced the CTR, no current plans to, only DEs. Although I'm interested to see if they're competitive in NASA TT as development progresses. I suspect they may be...

Other than pulling in braking points slightly, I'm doing what it's capable of....

PointBy... did you have limp mode due to high water temp that ended a session early?

I'm still working through all the info/data on this forum. Has anyone (non vendor) done objective testing pre/post radiator or oil cooler? It's an undertaking for sure.

I’m trying to do testing on this front but progress is slow. Car should not go into limp mode with high coolant or oil temps but it will limit power output. The car is pretty aggressive with timing and boost command when stuff starts to get hot.

 

[PointByPatrol]

Jester and PointBy... both great points.

Not questioning anyone else's experience, mine is just another data point for the community. I've not yet run the CTR in the heat of the summer, I may never. But others may have a similar use case.

I've not raced the CTR, no current plans to, only DEs. Although I'm interested to see if they're competitive in NASA TT as development progresses. I suspect they may be...

Other than pulling in braking points slightly, I'm doing what it's capable of....

PointBy... did you have limp mode due to high water temp that ended a session early?

I'm still working through all the info/data on this forum. Has anyone (non vendor) done objective testing pre/post radiator or oil cooler? It's an undertaking for sure.

My car threw the overtemp warning on the dash, but didn't go into limp mode.

 

[Club Version]

I don't have a way to scan codes just yet but the low fuel sounds about right. This car will go through a tank really quickly on track and when all the warning lights came on, I was showing only 2 bars of fuel on the gauge. Thanks for the insight, I'll make sure to keep an eye on fuel levels for the next day.

For sure it's cause of low fuel, happened to me as well. I went out with a quarter tank and the car did not like that.

Buy yourself a cheap scan tool, so you can clear the code next time it happens.

 

[Jester04]

Disclaimer: I have a DE5 but I've had mine out for multiple 15-20 minute sessions on an 80 degree day, no overheating issues at all here either. I know overheating issues are happening in these cars but I'm not sure the "require" and "at a minimum" qualifiers are really warranted.... but I am curious what makes you so adamant they're absolutely necessary.

Any additional context here? Did it happen each and every session? What other factors like track conditions, ambient temp etc. could have played a role?

If your coolant and oil temps get over 230F it’s overheating. I don’t mean an actual overheat like the car is unusable.

But power is being reduced, and will limit consistency in lap times.

 

[turbo8765]

I reserve the term overheating to a limp mode situation for the sake of consistency. All cars lose power as ECT rises, but as a general rule you don't see the term overheating used for other cars on other forum for decreased ignition timing due to high ECT. Limp mode is an obvious, sharp cutoff. If the term overheating is used for pulled timing... then how much pulled timing counts?

Jester, you can prob help us understand the problem much better by posting the timing tables vs ECT or IAT from the ECU. Whichever factors the ECU is using to reduce ignition timing (or boost if it does so) to reduce power as things get hot. How much timing do do you see on a stock ECU at 220f ECT temp vs greater than 230 ECT?

Also, what temp triggers the over temp warning on the dash and what does the warning look like? Maybe it's in the owners manual, I'll check mine. But I remember thinking the owners manual was light on useful information. I've seen a video of ECT of 123c (253.4f!!!!!!!!!!!!) with no warning lights or error codes.

 

[Jester04]

I reserve the term overheating to a limp mode situation for the sake of consistency. All cars lose power as ECT rises, but as a general rule you don't see the term overheating used for other cars on other forum for decreased ignition timing due to high ECT. Limp mode is an obvious, sharp cutoff. If the term overheating is used for pulled timing... then how much pulled timing counts?

Jester, you can prob help us understand the problem much better by posting the timing tables vs ECT or IAT from the ECU. Whichever factors the ECU is using to reduce ignition timing (or boost if it does so) to reduce power as things get hot. How much timing do do you see on a stock ECU at 220f ECT temp vs greater than 230 ECT?

Also, what temp triggers the over temp warning on the dash and what does the warning look like? Maybe it's in the owners manual, I'll check mine. But I remember thinking the owners manual was light on useful information. I've seen a video of ECT of 123c (253.4f!!!!!!!!!!!!) with no warning lights or error codes.

You will probably run into the Brake temp warning first before even being close to the engine temp warning.

And I understand most people don’t consider overheating until a warning light comes up. If that were the case then the car technically does not overheat. But also take into consideration most automakers put these warning lights in the car as a failsafe since most people don’t really care about this stuff. It’s just to prevent engine damage and letting you know to stop the car.

Now from a performance standpoint the car overheats quickly and starts to not perform as advertised. This is a table that @Vito.FL5 was able to get using his software so credit to him we just talk a lot on the side away from the forum.

X axis: Engine coolant temps ECT 1 the one that shows up on Log R
Y axis: IAT’s
Z axis: timing adjustments

The reason I recommend cooling mods to answer @optronix question better is to keep power consistent to keep lap times as consistent as possible.

 

[Vito.FL5]

I reserve the term overheating to a limp mode situation for the sake of consistency. All cars lose power as ECT rises, but as a general rule you don't see the term overheating used for other cars on other forum for decreased ignition timing due to high ECT. Limp mode is an obvious, sharp cutoff. If the term overheating is used for pulled timing... then how much pulled timing counts?

Jester, you can prob help us understand the problem much better by posting the timing tables vs ECT or IAT from the ECU. Whichever factors the ECU is using to reduce ignition timing (or boost if it does so) to reduce power as things get hot. How much timing do do you see on a stock ECU at 220f ECT temp vs greater than 230 ECT?

Also, what temp triggers the over temp warning on the dash and what does the warning look like? Maybe it's in the owners manual, I'll check mine. But I remember thinking the owners manual was light on useful information. I've seen a video of ECT of 123c (253.4f!!!!!!!!!!!!) with no warning lights or error codes.

Are you kidding me? even if no limp mode occurs, how long do you think the engine will last if you keep driving with head temps over 120C?

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