Questions for built FL5 owners

[Jester04]

As someone who owns an 8Y RS3 and is interested in both the GRC and FL5 (but more realistically DE5)... would love any thoughts you have comparing the three cars. Do you still have the RS3 and GRC?

The GRC while fun if you don’t need the awd I would skip it. The FL5 and DE5 are way nicer, handle better, more space, faster in a roll and on track. GR wins in launch because of awd but that is about it. Differential heating issues and whatnot in the GR also.

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[Spec C]

As someone who owns an 8Y RS3 and is interested in both the GRC and FL5 (but more realistically DE5)... would love any thoughts you have comparing the three cars. Do you still have the RS3 and GRC?

@Jester04 thoughts are pretty similar to mine. I think the grc is more raw, and feels a good bit less polished, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing depending what you’re looking for. It’s a bit more visceral, which leads to some level of excitement and enjoyment.

It does have a lot of character. The engine kinda reminds me of a Subaru in feel. More vibration, odd firing pattern etc.

The shifter feel is garbage compared to the de5. Interior is very plain. But honestly I don’t mind that. It’s just over all not as nice and not enough cool touches like the fl5 that make it feel “special”. I think the circuit should have a more similar interior to the Morizo with alcantara touches, etc.

But it also looks a bit “kiddish” and immature. And has a bit of a stigma being “just a Corolla” while the fl5 and de5 both look a lot cleaner, and classier to me personally. Like I’d park it and look back at it and while it looks cool, I’m like “maybe at 40 I’m too old for this thing” lol

When my wife saw the de5 she’s like “this is really nice. Damn. ”. She said “the gr was really fun to drive but this is a lot nicer looking “. She hasn’t driven it yet. Her initial reaction to the gr was a lot less impressed with its looks, and interior. And the Integra is def more her vibe.

The grc might be a tad more fun to drive on the street but I need more seat time in the de5. Just because in 30/70 mode the feel of rear bias just feels a bit more exciting to me. Fwd kinda pulls you along where rwd “pushes” you. So the grc almost feels faster to me tbh.

It’s also smaller. Which can be a good thing depending on what you are looking for. Felt nice to be back in something small. Took me back to the 90-00 cars.

I actually really like it, but there’s not much development yet, so for me it’s a car I’ll circle back to in a year or so. Imo the car needs at least fbo on e50+ to be really fun to me. I think it’s worth experiencing/owning. Especially if you live in a place that gets four seasons. Or as a “toy”

8y is the best of the bunch on paper(it should be as it’s nearly 15-$20k more . Imo But like above, it’s over 2 years old and can’t even tune it yet, and it’s still going to be a long time. . I’m not going to wait around for that. lol

Interior is nice. Lots of creature comforts. Sounds good once you do at least mid pipes. Really fun to drive with the new rear diff.

But it’s also so good it could be a bit sedated, and boring. I had 2 modded 8v rs3’s. One built motor Iroz 850etc and the car was a monster, and really fun for a bit, but it’s just so good, and easy to drive, that once the novelty of power wears off you’re kinda like “now what”?

Like I could put my wife in that car at 850whp with 0 experience and she could run nearly an identical time as me. It’s just that easy to drive.

For a DD I’d prob choose the 8y every time. Or if you want to build a car that runs 8s-10s, it’s the choice because the second tuning is available, be it syveccs or stock ecu, the roadmap to big power is there from the 8v. It’s game on.

But like the grc I don’t want to hold onto a depreciating asset, as the market weakens, for 12 months waiting for development. I’ll just rebuy them later.

The fl5 and de5 have a good deal of development. Lots of hardware already available. A decent recipe for power carrying over from the fk8. The second flashpro is released, it’ll be fairly easy to get 400whp+ on the de5 which should hold me over for a while.

What do you want out of a car? What’s your use? Daily? Second car/toy? Goals to build it? If so to do what ?

 

[optronix]

Interesting take. I think for those who have a "tuner-first" mindset, there are things that are appealing and unappealing for the FL5/DE5, but overall I don't think it's the best platform for that.

After owning the car for now a month, I'm struggling with whether I want to do anything to it at all. It's so dialed in out of the box. It's not "fast" but it's plenty entertaining enough for my use case- which does not involve pretty much anything in a straight line. I've had cars that run high 11s and even that doesn't do much for me. I can't imagine the point of having a car faster than that on the street. The F82 M4 for me was a car that made me realize "This is just too fast to enjoy on the street"... and this car will never really compete with the straight-line potential of an F82. So the "big power FL5/DE5 guys"... to each their own. I'll never really understand why you chose this car for that use case...

So clearly where I'm at in my life is I like to turn the steering wheel. Whether that's a back road or an HPDE. I feel like more power won't add anything to that experience. I also feel that it's great right now, and anything more than tires won't do much to improve on that without an appropriately matching "downside" to go along with it.

Even just the wheels... there's all this talk now that even just a 15mm difference in offset will impact the steering and torque steer characteristics of the car. That's a huge turn off for me. Sure I'd like the aesthetic improvements but if ANYTHING is impacted with the driving dynamics it's not worth it. I'm not interested in turning this car into a time attack car, it still has to fulfill dog transport duties among other things so trying to re-engineer the driving dynamics with coilovers, swaybars, endlinks, etc. are IMO a complete waste of money, time, and effort for me.

TL;DR, I came into this car expecting that it would bring me back to that "tuner-first" mindset, but after owning it for a bit, I don't think that's the case. I'll continue to investigate and consider wheels and springs, but right now I'm thinking brake fluid and pads for track days, and probably some 200-treadwear tires for the summer and that's all I think I'll do to it.

I may change my mind in a few months but for now, this car works on many levels and I just don't see myself doing much to improve it by throwing parts at it.

 

[Spec C]

Interesting take. I think for those who have a "tuner-first" mindset, there are things that are appealing and unappealing for the FL5/DE5, but overall I don't think it's the best platform for that.

After owning the car for now a month, I'm struggling with whether I want to do anything to it at all. It's so dialed in out of the box. It's not "fast" but it's plenty entertaining enough for my use case- which does not involve pretty much anything in a straight line. I've had cars that run high 11s and even that doesn't do much for me. I can't imagine the point of having a car faster than that on the street. The F82 M4 for me was a car that made me realize "This is just too fast to enjoy on the street"... and this car will never really compete with the straight-line potential of an F82. So the "big power FL5/DE5 guys"... to each their own. I'll never really understand why you chose this car for that use case...

So clearly where I'm at in my life is I like to turn the steering wheel. Whether that's a back road or an HPDE. I feel like more power won't add anything to that experience. I also feel that it's great right now, and anything more than tires won't do much to improve on that without an appropriately matching "downside" to go along with it.

Even just the wheels... there's all this talk now that even just a 15mm difference in offset will impact the steering and torque steer characteristics of the car. That's a huge turn off for me. Sure I'd like the aesthetic improvements but if ANYTHING is impacted with the driving dynamics it's not worth it. I'm not interested in turning this car into a time attack car, it still has to fulfill dog transport duties among other things so trying to re-engineer the driving dynamics with coilovers, swaybars, endlinks, etc. are IMO a complete waste of money, time, and effort for me.

TL;DR, I came into this car expecting that it would bring me back to that "tuner-first" mindset, but after owning it for a bit, I don't think that's the case. I'll continue to investigate and consider wheels and springs, but right now I'm thinking brake fluid and pads for track days, and probably some 200-treadwear tires for the summer and that's all I think I'll do to it.

I may change my mind in a few months but for now, this car works on many levels and I just don't see myself doing much to improve it by throwing parts at it.

Definitely depends on what you want out of it. Also where you live id imagine. Like for you you felt an m4 was too fast for the street but for me, I don’t get that feeling until like an 8 second car haha. I had a built motor, nismo turbo gtr that was a 9 sec car and it was plenty usable here. It was the perfect street car.

That said I don’t necessarily disagree with respect to thE DE5. As you can see from the original post, I went into it thinking I’d want an upgraded turbo/ built motor car, but now I’m almost thinking just fbo on ethanol would probably be ideal. Or somewhere in that neighborhood.

I definitely don’t want to destroy the handling characteristics so I’ll wait til I see more data regarding wheels. But this car might be better suited to 19s and a bit less aggressive fitment.

 

[superporpoise]

What do you want out of a car? What’s your use? Daily? Second car/toy? Goals to build it? If so to do what ?

Appreciate all of the thoughts!

For me the car is a daily and only car, so it has to be able to do everything. No kids but I do need to transport video production gear — the RS3 is just enough space for me, but anything smaller won’t work. My ideal car since forever has a manual transmission and is a hatchback.

I live in the PNW where we don’t get much snow but do get a lot of rain. The RS3 is my first car with AWD and the confidence and fun in the rain is high. I really like it — it’s actually way more engaging to drive than I imagined. The rear differential makes it really fun. The engine is insane. And even though it has some shitty interior materials, it feels twice as luxury as the DE5 — not really a comparison there in my mind.

I’ve bought a few cars over the past few years and been able to sell them and make money or break even. But now the market is changing and I want to land on something I’ll keep for at least 2 years.

The GRC seems like it would be perfect if it were a bigger or used its space better. The shit interior doesn’t bug me too much because at least it has heated seats and should be reliable. But carrying stuff and people around seems like a pain. Which do you feel is more practical in terms of interior/cargo space: RS3 or GRC?

FL5/DE5 are great, though I’ve only driven the DE5. Lots of space which is nice. I personally don’t love the way the DE5 looks (I realize I’m in the minority) and don’t like its seats or boring gauge cluster. But in every other way it ticks almost every box. I do feel like the build quality is not there, though — I’ve seen four in person and on every one the rear seat upholstery has been embarrassing. It just seems like less attention to details when assembling.

But as someone who’s owned an Elantra N, it’s hard for me to spend $52K on the ITS. I’m not a Hyundai fan but that car is incredible for the $, and the LSD feels even better than the DE5 IMO. Rotation of throttle in that car is so fun. And in a lot of ways it feels more special than the ITS — better seats, more useful info in the gauge cluster. But the manual in that car is uninspiring in comparison.

Basically, I’m trying to decide whether to stick with the RS3 for a few years, or get a DE5/FL5/GRC/EN. There’s probably no right answer, but I enjoy the conversation and hearing everyone’s thoughts!

At this point, it’s probably between DE5 and ‘24 EN for me. Or just keep the RS3!

One question for people who own the DE5: how is the ride height? Are you worried about scraping at all in driveways etc? The car does not have a lot of ground clearance on paper and I’m curious about that.

 

[optronix]

Appreciate all of the thoughts!

For me the car is a daily and only car, so it has to be able to do everything. No kids but I do need to transport video production gear — the RS3 is just enough space for me, but anything smaller won’t work. My ideal car since forever has a manual transmission and is a hatchback.

I live in the PNW where we don’t get much snow but do get a lot of rain. The RS3 is my first car with AWD and the confidence and fun in the rain is high. I really like it — it’s actually way more engaging to drive than I imagined. The rear differential makes it really fun. The engine is insane. And even though it has some shitty interior materials, it feels twice as luxury as the DE5 — not really a comparison there in my mind.

I’ve bought a few cars over the past few years and been able to sell them and make money or break even. But now the market is changing and I want to land on something I’ll keep for at least 2 years.

The GRC seems like it would be perfect if it were a bigger or used its space better. The shit interior doesn’t bug me too much because at least it has heated seats and should be reliable. But carrying stuff and people around seems like a pain. Which do you feel is more practical in terms of interior/cargo space: RS3 or GRC?

FL5/DE5 are great, though I’ve only driven the DE5. Lots of space which is nice. I personally don’t love the way the DE5 looks (I realize I’m in the minority) and don’t like its seats or boring gauge cluster. But in every other way it ticks almost every box. I do feel like the build quality is not there, though — I’ve seen four in person and on every one the rear seat upholstery has been embarrassing. It just seems like less attention to details when assembling.

But as someone who’s owned an Elantra N, it’s hard for me to spend $52K on the ITS. I’m not a Hyundai fan but that car is incredible for the $, and the LSD feels even better than the DE5 IMO. Rotation of throttle in that car is so fun. And in a lot of ways it feels more special than the ITS — better seats, more useful info in the gauge cluster. But the manual in that car is uninspiring in comparison.

Basically, I’m trying to decide whether to stick with the RS3 for a few years, or get a DE5/FL5/GRC/EN. There’s probably no right answer, but I enjoy the conversation and hearing everyone’s thoughts!

At this point, it’s probably between DE5 and ‘24 EN for me. Or just keep the RS3!

One question for people who own the DE5: how is the ride height? Are you worried about scraping at all in driveways etc? The car does not have a lot of ground clearance on paper and I’m curious about that.

Well since you asked for thoughts... between this and other posts you've made on the DE5, I think you should definitely stay away. I'm struggling to find a reason you're still considering one- it really seems like you just don't care for anything about it... and you like your current RS3... and wouldn't mind going back to an Elantra N. It's interesting to me because I really can't relate, and you're sort of spinning in circles.

Maybe get an FL5 because you don't like how an ITS looks and seem to be convinced the build quality is better, but coming from an RS3 to an ITS when you don't like the looks, driving dynamics, and think an Elantra is "more special"- IDK man, I'm no psychologist but sounds like a recipe for buyers' remorse to me!

As for ground clearance, it's no more an issue than other cars I've had. My driveway scraped a bone stock STI if I didn't take a perfect 45 degree angle- this one is no better or worse. Don't really notice scraping anywhere else.

 

[Jester04]

Interesting take. I think for those who have a "tuner-first" mindset, there are things that are appealing and unappealing for the FL5/DE5, but overall I don't think it's the best platform for that.

After owning the car for now a month, I'm struggling with whether I want to do anything to it at all. It's so dialed in out of the box. It's not "fast" but it's plenty entertaining enough for my use case- which does not involve pretty much anything in a straight line. I've had cars that run high 11s and even that doesn't do much for me. I can't imagine the point of having a car faster than that on the street. The F82 M4 for me was a car that made me realize "This is just too fast to enjoy on the street"... and this car will never really compete with the straight-line potential of an F82. So the "big power FL5/DE5 guys"... to each their own. I'll never really understand why you chose this car for that use case...

So clearly where I'm at in my life is I like to turn the steering wheel. Whether that's a back road or an HPDE. I feel like more power won't add anything to that experience. I also feel that it's great right now, and anything more than tires won't do much to improve on that without an appropriately matching "downside" to go along with it.

Even just the wheels... there's all this talk now that even just a 15mm difference in offset will impact the steering and torque steer characteristics of the car. That's a huge turn off for me. Sure I'd like the aesthetic improvements but if ANYTHING is impacted with the driving dynamics it's not worth it. I'm not interested in turning this car into a time attack car, it still has to fulfill dog transport duties among other things so trying to re-engineer the driving dynamics with coilovers, swaybars, endlinks, etc. are IMO a complete waste of money, time, and effort for me.

TL;DR, I came into this car expecting that it would bring me back to that "tuner-first" mindset, but after owning it for a bit, I don't think that's the case. I'll continue to investigate and consider wheels and springs, but right now I'm thinking brake fluid and pads for track days, and probably some 200-treadwear tires for the summer and that's all I think I'll do to it.

I may change my mind in a few months but for now, this car works on many levels and I just don't see myself doing much to improve it by throwing parts at it.

For sure different strokes for different folks. I will be tuning mine and I also track it. But I will he going with a conservative tune since I don’t want to upset the car’s balance. I think low to mid 300’s at the wheel would be a good sweet spot for the car and the chassis can take it.

Also on another note, if you do change tires the way the car feels will change no way of avoiding that. The sidewall flex is different from tire to tire. In my S2K I went with RE-71’s in 245 with a 17x9 wheel compared to stock. Its still very darty and super fun but the extra grip of the tire with the increased width did affect how the car feels. But it is considerably faster so try to pick the best balance for you.

And this is all coming from a guy that enjoys slow ass cars. I never chase power, for me straight line speed is cool but does not do it for me.

 

[optronix]

For sure different strokes for different folks. I will be tuning mine and I also track it. But I will he going with a conservative tune since I don’t want to upset the car’s balance. I think low to mid 300’s at the wheel would be a good sweet spot for the car and the chassis can take it.

Also on another note, if you do change tires the way the car feels will change no way of avoiding that. The sidewall flex is different from tire to tire. In my S2K I went with RE-71’s in 245 with a 17x9 wheel compared to stock. Its still very darty and super fun but the extra grip of the tire with the increased width did affect how the car feels. But it is considerably faster so try to pick the best balance for you.

And this is all coming from a guy that enjoys slow ass cars. I never chase power, for me straight line speed is cool but does not do it for me.

I won't lie and say I'm completely uninterested... but I feel like I'm just going to have to go through several cycles of let's just call it "due diligence" before I land on any particular modification I'll choose to perform. Which is to say at least from my perspective right now, there won't be much room for "experimentation" to find the right balance- which basically equates to this thing will remain stock forever lol.

 

[Jester04]

I won't lie and say I'm completely uninterested... but I feel like I'm just going to have to go through several cycles of let's just call it "due diligence" before I land on any particular modification I'll choose to perform. Which is to say at least from my perspective right now, there won't be much room for "experimentation" to find the right balance- which basically equates to this thing will remain stock forever lol.

Lol, I can respect that. If you really want to tighten up the shifter and make it feel 10 times better I would strongly suggest the shifter cable bushings and detent springs. It really makes a big difference all together and makes the shifting experience even more enjoyable.

 

[superporpoise]

Well since you asked for thoughts... between this and other posts you've made on the DE5, I think you should definitely stay away. I'm struggling to find a reason you're still considering one- it really seems like you just don't care for anything about it... and you like your current RS3... and wouldn't mind going back to an Elantra N. It's interesting to me because I really can't relate, and you're sort of spinning in circles.

Maybe get an FL5 because you don't like how an ITS looks and seem to be convinced the build quality is better, but coming from an RS3 to an ITS when you don't like the looks, driving dynamics, and think an Elantra is "more special"- IDK man, I'm no psychologist but sounds like a recipe for buyers' remorse to me!

As for ground clearance, it's no more an issue than other cars I've had. My driveway scraped a bone stock STI if I didn't take a perfect 45 degree angle- this one is no better or worse. Don't really notice scraping anywhere else.

I like the DE5 in a lot of ways! Versus the Elantra N, the two biggest things I like about are the gearbox which feels way better, and the fact that it has a hatch. Versus the FL5, I like that it has heated seats. And vs. both of them — I like some of the niceties like parking sensors front and rear, great stereo, and HUD. I think it's a good car.

I don't really have brand or model loyalty, and I don't feel like a car defines who I am or that I have to identify myself with it or like everything about it. I'm on enthusiast forums because I think cars are fun and like getting into conversations about them. I consider all kinds of cars — if there was a car I thought was perfect I'd just buy it, but there isn't! So I keep reading and thinking about it, and buying things to try them out.

 

[optronix]

I like the DE5 in a lot of ways! Versus the Elantra N, the two biggest things I like about are the gearbox which feels way better, and the fact that it has a hatch. Versus the FL5, I like that it has heated seats. And vs. both of them — I like some of the niceties like parking sensors front and rear, great stereo, and HUD. I think it's a good car.

I don't really have brand or model loyalty, and I don't feel like a car defines who I am or that I have to identify myself with it or like everything about it. I'm on enthusiast forums because I think cars are fun and like getting into conversations about them. I consider all kinds of cars — if there was a car I thought was perfect I'd just buy it, but there isn't! So I keep reading and thinking about it, and buying things to try them out.

I'll maintain that if you don't absolutely require a manual transmission, you're fine right where you're at with the RS3.

 

[Spec C]

I'll maintain that if you don't absolutely require a manual transmission, you're fine right where you're at with the RS3.

Ya I mean this is a fair take. For me I’ve just owned so many auto/dct cars as of late I just yearned for a manual. The rs3 is on paper better in just about every way. It just can’t be tuned, and not manual.

 

[Jester04]

Ya I mean this is a fair take. For me I’ve just owned so many auto/dct cars as of late I just yearned for a manual. The rs3 is on paper better in just about every way. It just can’t be tuned, and not manual.

I love the yearn part.

I’m a purist when it comes to manuals. I bring shame to my house by getting an automatic truck. I really wish the TRX came in a manual it would have been a treat. All my cars have been manual through out my life. I refuse to drive anything else, its just not enjoyable for me.

 

[Spec C]

I love the yearn part.

I’m a purist when it comes to manuals. I bring shame to my house by getting an automatic truck. I really wish the TRX came in a manual it would have been a treat. All my cars have been manual through out my life. I refuse to drive anything else, its just not enjoyable for me.

Trust me I’m with you. It’s why I held off on a gtr so long. That was like the first auto car I owned and took me almost buying one multiple times before I caved. But eventually I’ve ran through all the manuals I could afford. Now I’m circling back. Lol

 

[Jester04]

Trust me I’m with you. It’s why I held off on a gtr so long. That was like the first auto car I owned and took me almost buying one multiple times before I caved. But eventually I’ve ran through all the manuals I could afford. Now I’m circling back. Lol

I feel you dude! I have driven dct cars before and even the famous PDK and while impressively quick I find them a bit dull lol. But they are faster for sure, no doubt about it.

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