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mbaapk

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They could limit the power in the first 2 gears and unleash all 350+ horses in the higher gears where traction is less of an issue. Though realistically, I don't see more than 320-330 in the new model, if that.
That would pull like a beast. Probably stomp the m240i from a roll. (Not that I would ever 🤫)
 

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350 seems too high based on suzuka times. Unless the chassis, suspension and tires are much worse than before...lol.

I'd be happy with closer to 306hp as before. Sometimes an incremental improvement is nice for more reliability or higher stock internal tuning limits.

They could of course have kept 306hp but brought up mid range or something too to make it faster. 306hp is just a peak number. Too many other variables to consider.
 

mbaapk

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350 seems too high based on suzuka times. Unless the chassis, suspension and tires are much worse than before...lol.

I'd be happy with closer to 306hp as before. Sometimes an incremental improvement is nice for more reliability or higher stock internal tuning limits.

They could of course have kept 306hp but brought up mid range or something too to make it faster. 306hp is just a peak number. Too many other variables to consider.
Even 310 would be nice…its all psychological
11th Gen Honda Civic Raiti's Ride preview of the 2023 Civic Type R prototype (close-up walkaround) 1656807368274
 

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They could limit the power in the first 2 gears and unleash all 350+ horses in the higher gears where traction is less of an issue. Though realistically, I don't see more than 320-330 in the new model, if that.
Highly doubt it be anything close to 350. Most likely 320 at most.
 


s2kdriver80

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350 would be nice but it wouldn't fly, knowing Honda. Would be very useful for highway flexing (would blow away every car in its class) or on long straights at the track. Even if they did nothing to improve the suspension/handling/aero, the extra power alone might be enough to comfortably beat the Megane on the Nurburgring final stretch.
 

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Highly doubt it be anything close to 350. Most likely 320 at most.
350 would be nice but it wouldn't fly, knowing Honda. Would be very useful for highway flexing (would blow away every car in its class) or on long straights at the track. Even if they did nothing to improve the suspension/handling/aero, the extra power alone might be enough to comfortably beat the Megane on the Nurburgring final stretch.
Yeah for it to have 350hp and to only beat the previous gen on Suzuka by a tenth of a second means that they made handling worse and traded it off for raw power or they just fine tuned the car. With that much more HP the lap time should be at least 1 second lol
 

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Seems like either the FL5 will handle slightly better than the FK8, but have basically the same power output, or it will have a slight power bump, maybe 315-325hp, but handle slightly worse than the FK8.
 

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Yeah for it to have 350hp and to only beat the previous gen on Suzuka by a tenth of a second means that they made handling worse and traded it off for raw power or they just fine tuned the car. With that much more HP the lap time should be at least 1 second lol
Remember, the Suzuka record previous was set by the limited edition, not the base 10th gen CTR. So would have the weight reduction, tires and revised spring/shock dampening that the 11th gen base CTR record shouldn't have. But we really don't have any details of the record setting car so the car could be gutted and on race day tires. So the .8 sec improvement is a bit more interesting.

Don't really know why people are so hung up by the Nuremberg FWD production record though. The Megane is a $75k car and the Nuremberg record was set on basically a track prepped car. Lightweight carbon bucket seats, carbon fiber wheels on track tires, carbon ceramic brakes, gutted rear section, some aero tweaks and possibly (mentioned but not detailed) a lightweight transmission/drivetrain system. So basically a spec that they don't sell and would cost tens of thousands to upgrade to. Likely not a car you'd want to drive on the street anyway in that prep. I hope Honda doesn't go record chasing and instead just stumbles into records because they accomplished their goals of making a great handling driver engagement car that just touches the grey area of what a daily driver can be. Delve too much into race car territory like a lot of these record chasers do, the car just sucks to drive on anything but the track.
 

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I highly doubt Honda would make a worse handling car with a new generation, although it's possible (EP3 to FN2), and they probably will give it a slight power bump. Probably conservative on both fronts, in Honda fashion.

Maybe they'll try to be cute and give us 307/317hp.

"This car is bigger and heavier than the old model. So, do you want to guess now many more horsepowers it's got? Thuh-ty? Foh-ty? No. One. One moh!" - Clarkson


 


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350 seems too high based on suzuka times.
I agree, I think 350 is far too optimistic

I am expecting to see 330~335 hp and only slight increase in torque (like maybe 2 to 5 ft-lbs).

My working theory is that back in October when they went to the Ring, they were running only about 310~315 and they failed to break the record. I think they tried everything to improve the chassis and aero, but in the end more power for the straights was the only viable solution.

For them to go back to the Ring again, they had to make sure it was going to be enough this time. IMO 330~335 would be adequate to reliably achieve that with some safety margin.

I just can't see them only adding 10hp this time around, this is the legacy gas engine Type-R that people will talk about for the next 20 years. No point to hold back.


Don't really know why people are so hung up by the Nuremberg FWD production record though. The Megane is a $75k car and the Nuremberg record was set on basically a track prepped car. Lightweight carbon bucket seats, carbon fiber wheels on track tires, carbon ceramic brakes, gutted rear section, some aero tweaks and possibly (mentioned but not detailed) a lightweight transmission/drivetrain system. So basically a spec that they don't sell and would cost tens of thousands to upgrade to. Likely not a car you'd want to drive on the street anyway in that prep. I hope Honda doesn't go record chasing and instead just stumbles into records because they accomplished their goals of making a great handling driver engagement car that just touches the grey area of what a daily driver can be. Delve too much into race car territory like a lot of these record chasers do, the car just sucks to drive on anything but the track.
I want to see it happen, but I agree that they risk ruining the car if they get carried away. A lot of manufactures have utterly ruined their GT cars chasing Ring times. Personally I don't care that much, I am more interested in using mine as a DD, road trip car, and occasionally as a weekend AutoXer down the road.

Honda certainly cares though.... their promo videos and 2nd presence at the Ring tells a story of obsession. Behind the scenes there is a bunch of iron fisted managers at Honda demanding that they bring the Megane down.

I think it will be alright though. Adaptive dampers combined with a fully customizable drive mode would go a long way to helping it walk the line between race car and commuter car. I mean, it already has the dampers... so hopefully we get better drive modes this time around.
 
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TimeRacer

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I agree, I think 350 is far too optimistic

I am expecting to see 330~335 hp and only slight increase in torque (like maybe 2 to 5 ft-lbs).

My working theory is that back in October when they went to the Ring, they were running only about 310~315 and they failed to break the record. I think they tried everything to improve the chassis and aero, but in the end more power for the straights was the only viable solution.

For them to go back to the Ring again, they had to make sure it was going to be enough this time. IMO 330~335 would be adequate to reliably achieve that with some safety margin.

I just can't see them only adding 10hp this time around, this is the legacy gas engine Type-R that people will talk about for the next 20 years. No point to hold back.



I want to see it happen, but I agree that they risk ruining the car if they get carried away. A lot of manufactures have utterly ruined their GT cars chasing Ring times. Personally I don't care that much, I am more interested in using mine as a DD, road trip car, and occasionally as a weekend AutoXer down the road.

Honda certainly cares though.... their promo videos and 2nd presence at the Ring tells a story of obsession. Behind the scenes there is a bunch of iron fisted managers at Honda demanding that they bring the Megane down.

I think it will be alright though. Adaptive dampers combined with a fully customizable drive mode would go a long way to helping it walk the line between race car and commuter car. I mean, it already has the dampers... so hopefully we get better drive modes this time around.
We've already had this discussion. Going back to the Ring doesn't mean they're chasing the FWD production record. It's simply called final testing their suspension setup over a rough closer to real world road conditions closed track. There's good reason why everything from vans, SUV's, low powered econo-boxes go testing at the Ring. IF it was for record setting attempts you'd see a full roll cage on the car from the spy shots. Go look at ANY of the recent record setting attempts and you'll see a few tell tale features of the car when they're testing at 10/10ths. I get you continually think Honda is obsessed with Nurburgring but realize, they've had exactly ONE car that's held a record and they didn't try and re-chase the record with the limited edition once the record was taken. Honda is a conservative company and never has built the highest horsepower or fastest car in its class as a primary design goal. Also adjustable dampers don't create a split personality car, the spring rate is the spring rate which plays a major role in finding the effective wheel rate which greatly influences the ride comfort.

As for the HP number, there's no reason to release the Suzuka time and then change the horsepower figure. The engine and horsepower they used at Suzuka is what it's being released with. Honda probably has been sitting on that time from Dec-March in hopes of improving through a better lap or suspension tweaks but very unlikely to change much, much less power, once they started releasing lap times. But I'm sure none of this matters, you'll still think Honda is record chasing which most people don't want as they don't want to climb in a car with race car firmness/personality as their primary driver and has never been what the Type-R is about.
 

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…and has never been what the Type-R is about.
I don’t know if that’s a completely accurate statement. Maybe to people only old enough to really know the FK8, but if you go back through the overall history of the Type R, from the NSX, Integra, and Civic, it’s pretty easy to see that your viewpoint is a fairly new one. All of those vehicles were meant to be a race car for the road, honoring their racing accomplishments.

If you look back at the 1992 NSX Type R, that started it all, the R was made because people wanted a race ready version of the more comfortable and practical NSX.
 

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It also depends on the specific model the Type R is based on. The NSX was a specialty car that was designed as an out-and-out sports car; the Civic is a practical transport for the masses. So the Type R treatment for the Civic won't be as drastic as it was for the NSX. The NA2 NSX was a relatively stiff riding car. Maybe I'm just the odd one out and have a higher tolerance than most, but I don't mind a stiff car as a daily driver. The S2000 with CR suspension (already much harder than the FK8) was my daily for nearly 20 years and wished it was even stiffer for street driving. Shigeru Uehara stated that if the S2000 CR was placed in Honda's performance hierarchical spectrum, it would be positioned somewhere between a Type S and a Type R.
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