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savagegeese

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Savagegeese
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FL5 Type R
While I have not owned the FK8 I have been able to track and drive every iteration of the FK8 and the Mugen car. I want to be honest thats no replacement for owning one and being invested in having that asset. However, there will be an on going debate to whether or not the price of the new car is worth it and the performance questions will continue. I rarely write anymore but here is what I took away from the access I have.

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You will see drag races and comparisons and many of these mod videos and tuning videos. The usual cycle of content.

After talking with the Chief Engineer and Honda, this car represents the last fully internal combustion Type R. But more importantly it is Japan taking back control of these cars. It definitely was a statement. There is a huge rift in mentality and opinion inside Honda about these performance cars. So the FL5 is just basically the J team taking full ownership. They now have full control over manufacturing, including updates and production and quality.
The FL5 platform is more advanced and the latest global manufacturing setup, therefore the biggest changes are related to that.

With a stiffer body structure and stiffer bushings when you start to modify suspension later you will be able to throw higher spring rates at the car etc and it will be much better sorted. So is it a better car objectively than the FK8, yes. But its iterative. Stock vs stock its going to be minimal on the street. Where you will see the new car stand out is extended usage and heat. Changes to suspension and cooling means as you drive the car hard for 20 minutes, camber stability is high so tires will fall off less, heat will be better managed which means ECU has to pull less timing related to heat and the car will stay more consistent in terms of performance. That is what they focused on. At lap 5 both cars will be close. By lap 15 the distance will continue to spread.

Are you going to see big differential numbers, FL5 vs FK8 in a bubble, No. They share many components down to the engine. Thats what needs to be understood.

Thats why I said in the video, this is the most expensive Civic to date and its still a Civic. So be careful how much you spend and enjoy both generations for what they are, a fun Honda, one of the very few fun Hondas left. And both were designed by one of the few left inside Honda that has the knowledge transfer from the past engineers.

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Stick_shifter96

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Shaurya
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Not a FL5
Absolutely. There is nothing that stands out as an improvement in the new FL5, but it is the sum of subtle improvements and exterior styling changes that make the FL5 an amazing car. Would I pay the asking MSRP for it? In a heartbeat. But would I spend upwards of the asking ~10k or more markup? Probably not, because at that price point, the playing field opens up and there are a lot of other compelling competitors.
 

FK7_

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Too much goes into which one is better. Honestly from everything I’m seeing seems to be very comparable between new and old. Car enthusiasts are just lucky as hell we still get one last kick at the can. I’m happy with my FK8 but I’m so excited for others to get experience a car of this calibre again cause we all know the electric future is coming. Numb, heavy, video gamey. Nothing about that says type-R.
 

Modular Cal

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Cal
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I think people are focusing too much on one set of numbers or one metric (ie. a roll race where even a 10mph starting speed difference can play a big factor). Cars are more than their data sheet numbers.

I'm happy the changes Honda made will benefit track driving with stickier tires. I do a lot of autocross and time trials, so those changes will have a larger impact for my use. The only time I'll have the factory PS4's on the car are when I'm driving on the street (2nd set of wheels for competition), so outright handling with those tires isn't much of an issue for me. The cooling changes are a big plus as I have a longer time to set a better lap. Details like this (and those you listed) seem to get lost in the landslide of information.
 


AspecR

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Stefan
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What was the rationale behind the final drive gear ratio change? Have not read anything around that topic.
It provides a traction advantage since it effectively makes the gears longer therefore less likely to wheel spin when driving aggressively. A stock FK8 will incinerate its front tires with very little effort.
 

michaeljf

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MY21 Civic Type R LE
One thing that stands out for me is just how good a job Honda did with the FK8 from the get go. I've owned a MY18 Type R and now a MY21 LE and while many of the improvements were incremental, some were in areas where I never thought they needed to do so. The fact that Honda just went ahead and said "we need what is already the benchmark gearshift in class to be even better" then proceeded to do that speaks volumes.

I always said the best thing about the LE was that it was based on the regular FK8 Type but at the same time it's also the worst thing. The gains were always going to be incremental. It seems the FL5 is the same and they've nailed it in spite of working with a new platform that while stiffer, is slightly heavier.
 

Ministry

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I was not a fan of the FK8 styling when it was first released, however it grew on me a bit over the years but I never pulled the trigger. I almost purchased a lightly used FK8 a few months ago as I was growing impatient with the FL5 and not satisfied with my Si but the dealer still wanted near 48k. 48k for a 2021 used FK8! I initially passed on it and found out it sold a few days later when I went back to present a reasonable offer.

So glad that I exercised some patience and waited. I think had I purchased an FK8 within the last few months or even a year, I would have felt some serious buyers remorse knowing how good the FL5 feels out the gate. It appears to have enough small refinements that all add up in a big way, styling that's more grown up while still remaining aggressive, improved interior and heat soak/transmission issues worked through.

However, I think if I was a a longer term FK8 owner, I'd be fine with taking a pass on the new gen, knowing that I've owned a great car that's still very special/unique and be content with sitting on the sidelines laughing at the current market frenzy.
 
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SP R KiD

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FL5 is a great looking hot hatch. In more ways than one, whether people think they are justifiable or not to warrant the new price, there are many improvements. The exterior is matured, which many people love. Clearly the interior is a winner, I don't think anyone has said they don't like the interior. Honda has stayed true to their dedication to the track performance of the car. It's an economical car in a lot of ways in comparison to much more expensive cars. It's going to be a great car and the FK8 will also continue to be a great car. It also obviously comes with it's faults, as any product. They are both great cars.

I agree with savagegeese that the car is only worth MSRP, I'm paying over 6k MSRP. Does that mean I feel like I'm getting cheated? No. At the end of the day, I'm going to pay what I'm comfortable with and realistically if I were to re-sell the car, I wouldn't be losing enough money to make me upset (I may even make some, not that I'm re-selling mine.) But what car is worth more than MSRP? What does MSRP mean? Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Between part costs, labor assembly cost, and shipping cost, the car is worth what it's worth. But the market will dictate new pricing BECAUSE of exclusivity and how people personally feel about it. I can promise if the market was flooded with these, we'd be paying MSRP and that is true with any product ever, not just cars or the FL5.

I think a lot of people are responding with emotion over a statistic that means a lot to some people and nothing to others (referring to roll race). Everyone needs to remember these are all opinions and nothing more. If you love the way the car looks and feels and it makes you happy with the purchase you are agreeing to go through with, than great. If you don't want the car or like it because of a couple of things, than great. Let people divulge their own thoughts. But lets treat the cars with respect because they are both great cars in their own right and owning either one of them is an awesome experience. If you disagree then why are you here?

Now where are them east coast cars? lol
 

OGGsr

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I wonder if the Si is the better car value for the street vs. the FL5. At at about 150% of the cost of an Si, I'm not sure if the FL5 is worth 15k-20k more. I remember one of your videos mentioned that both cars are targeted by Honda to the same demographic, but the FL5 is a financial stretch to those individuals who want one. If you plan on tracking your Si or FL5, then it makes sense to buy the FL5, but as a purely street car, the Si seems like maybe a better choice. All my opinion of course. :)
 

Negitoro7

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I wonder if the Si is the better car value for the street vs. the FL5. At at about 150% of the cost of an Si, I'm not sure if the FL5 is worth 15k-20k more. I remember one of your videos mentioned that both cars are targeted by Honda to the same demographic, but the FL5 is a financial stretch to those individuals who want one. If you plan on tracking your Si or FL5, then it makes sense to buy the FL5, but as a purely street car, the Si seems like maybe a better choice. All my opinion of course. :)
Personally, if the Type R is too much of a financial stretch for me, I’ll be looking at trying to get an Elantra N, not the Si.

 

 
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