Civic Type R Ethanol Tuning & Dyno (Preliminary) Results - Ososik

OsosikMedia · Apr 12, 2023

UPDATED 6-19-23

I've been driving the Civic Type R on ethanol for over a few months and as expected the stock Civic fuel system is still doing great. Over time pumps have been known to fail on FK8, so I assume the FL5 would be the same (I like pushing my luck though).

As of now the car is on a E50 ethanol blend, custom tuning done by Daniel at Powermetric. Currently the Hondata FlashPro does not support flex fuel tuning, but I read their post that it's coming soon! This is a cost effect (traditional) way of tuning with ethanol, without going the Flex Fuel Kit route, BUT I definitely recommend a flex fuel kit because of how much easier it is and well...flexible.

Below is a link of a Fuel write up I did if you're new to this:
https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/what-the-f.52111/#post-864077

For a stock Civic Type R fuel system an ethanol blend is the most optimal. You could tune for full Ethanol but I prefer getting the highest power output for the current state of the set-up. So until I have a fuel system that can support all the juice, blending it is. lol

During the initial test, the Civic Type R was stock except for Hondata FlashPro and custom tuning by PowerMetric.net on a E40 blend (ethanol & 91 octane).

PowerMetric Custom Tuning, Hondata 91 Map Results, Baseline on a Mustang Dyno (80+ degrees).

Dyno Pull (PowerMetric Custom Tuning):

11th Gen Honda Civic Civic Type R Ethanol Tuning & Dyno (Preliminary) Results - Ososik type-r-ethanol-dyno-results

11th Gen Honda Civic Civic Type R Ethanol Tuning & Dyno (Preliminary) Results - Ososik ethanol-vs-stock-civic-tune.PNG

11th Gen Honda Civic Civic Type R Ethanol Tuning & Dyno (Preliminary) Results - Ososik flashpro-type-r-datalog-002.PNG

11th Gen Honda Civic Civic Type R Ethanol Tuning & Dyno (Preliminary) Results - Ososik flashpro-type-r-datalog.PNG

ValkenDnB · Apr 12, 2023

was this full E85 or what was the ethanol content?

Clark_Kent · Apr 12, 2023

Shoutout to this guy for tuning this car in what appears to be Nike slides.

On a serious note, I presume the 'SAE Historic' runs are stock baselines. Please confirm. Also, what are the mods and what is the ethanol content?

OsosikMedia · Apr 14, 2023

Clark_Kent said:
Shoutout to this guy for tuning this car in what appears to be Nike slides.

On a serious note, I presume the 'SAE Historic' runs are stock baselines. Please confirm. Also, what are the mods and what is the ethanol content?

Aside from the custom tuning using Hondata FlashPro, the FL5 is stock (fresh out the show room floor).
And Daniel (Powermetric) knew it was time to work so he got comfortable with the slides aha. He’s tuned all my 10th & 11th gens.

OsosikMedia · Apr 14, 2023

ValkenDnB said:
was this full E85 or what was the ethanol content?

It’s a blend. More info to come.

lilDumpsterRat · Jan 20, 2024

I don't understand what you mean when you said E50 is optimal over E85 for power gains in the car given the hardware on it? can't timing be more aggressive w E85? Or is it something fuel delivery related you're talking about.

Why are there no E85 tuned yet for this car?

OsosikMedia · Jan 20, 2024

lilDumpsterRat said:
I don't understand what you mean when you said E50 is optimal over E85 for power gains in the car given the hardware on it? can't timing be more aggressive w E85? Or is it something fuel delivery related you're talking about.

Why are there no E85 tuned yet for this car?

You can run full Ethanol but on certain applications, it's more optimal to run the blend. You are correct though you can be more aggressive with E85. That's only if your hardware can support it.
This goes for pretty much everything, some set ups can make lots of HP but if it's a stock motor you may or may not snap a rod.
Some people (like me) are ok with blowing motors to make the most power possible. That way we can keep find weak points and make them stronger.

mbaapk · Jan 20, 2024

OsosikMedia said:
You can run full Ethanol but on certain applications, it's more optimal to run the blend. You are correct though you can be more aggressive with E85. That's only if your hardware can support it.
This goes for pretty much everything, some set ups can make lots of HP but if it's a stock motor you may or may not snap a rod.
Some people (like me) are ok with blowing motors to make the most power possible. That way we can keep find weak points and make them stronger.

Why wouldn’t you just do a full build at the outset which would be much less costly when you consider the headache and down time? I was quoted $12k for a build excluding pulling the motor and shipping and reinstalling. I even offered to be a test car to King motorsports who kindly told me to foff. Best bet is to stay within the general rule of 50 - 75 hp on a good tune and call it a day or go all in. A new motor including install is more than a full build.

Jester04 · Jan 20, 2024

lilDumpsterRat said:
I don't understand what you mean when you said E50 is optimal over E85 for power gains in the car given the hardware on it? can't timing be more aggressive w E85? Or is it something fuel delivery related you're talking about.

Why are there no E85 tuned yet for this car?

The stock fuel system can’t handle full e85, it struggles with even straight pump gas past 25psi, plus on most DI engines you can reach mbt timing with around 50% ethanol. This post was made a long time ago. So a lot more has been achieved and the limits have been slowly coming up.

@OsosikMedia is pushing a lot more power now.

OsosikMedia · Jan 20, 2024

mbaapk said:
Why wouldn’t you just do a full build at the outset which would be much less costly when you consider the headache and down time? I was quoted $12k for a build excluding pulling the motor and shipping and reinstalling. I even offered to be a test car to King motorsports who kindly told me to foff. Best bet is to stay within the general rule of 50 - 75 hp on a good tune and call it a day or go all in. A new motor including install is more than a full build.

It goes back to; you do what you please. At the time, this was done to show the "Max Power" for the set up. Which we were limited by hardware, software and time. I actually prefer to always run full E85 because of the convenience.

Little background, I've been one of the few (gotten into lots of debates) to say & prove that you can run full E85 on the 10th gen & 11th gen cars but if you're mechanically limited then something else gets sacrificed (but it doesn't make it impossible). There's lots of ways to approach a build and the outcome ultimately comes down to what the owner wants.

A "Good Tune" is kind of subjective to ones opinion. I would respond with: Why only make 50-75HP? I wouldn't even waste my time modifying it lol (That's just me). You can have a good tune and make 200-300 more HP but you might start breaking things. If that happens, that doesn't mean go blame the tuner and say you don't have a "good tune". Could it be a tune? Sure, but in my case it simply means the hardware can't support the new power I'm giving it (so it's time to strengthen the weak point).

There's lots of variables on this subject, but I am willing to accept consequences and am ok with pushing limits to the breaking point, so that I can continue to push the envelope until I reach my personal goal, even if that means being the first and making custom parts.

I had a spare K20C motor before I even purchased the FL5. I typically always do a full build (sometimes a little too extreme lol). So extensive that I have and continue to work with manufactures to help R&D a lot of the products that are currently on the market.

The best example I can give are with the 1.5L Turbo engine. They are known to not handle lots of power stock. Personally I modify and make as much power as I can, knowing it's a ticking time bomb. That doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing, because if I wanted "reliability" I wouldn't push it. I'd just tune the Torque to be more linear or flatline...but in my opinion that defeats the purpose (no disrespect to those are just want a little more). If I want reliability, I just won't modify the car. It can still mess up though, which is why we have lemon laws lol.

I haven't posted for a while but for my FL5, I am complete with the build as far as power (I think). It makes 480WHP on our in-house Mustang Dyno with the stock motor.

Jester04 · Jan 20, 2024

OsosikMedia said:
It goes back to; you do what you please. At the time, this was done to show the "Max Power" for the set up. Which we were limited by hardware, software and time. I actually prefer to always run full E85 because of the convenience.

Little background, I've been one of the few (gotten into lots of debates) to say & prove that you can run full E85 on the 10th gen & 11th gen cars but if you're mechanically limited then something else gets sacrificed (but it doesn't make it impossible). There's lots of ways to approach a build and the outcome ultimately comes down to what the owner wants.

A "Good Tune" is kind of subjective to ones opinion. I would respond with: Why only make 50-75HP? I wouldn't even waste my time modifying it lol (That's just me). You can have a good tune and make 200-300 more HP but you might start breaking things. If that happens, that doesn't mean go blame the tuner and say you don't have a "good tune". Could it be a tune? Sure, but in my case it simply means the hardware can't support the new power I'm giving it (so it's time to strengthen the weak point).

There's lots of variables on this subject, but I am willing to accept consequences and am ok with pushing limits to the breaking point, so that I can continue to push the envelope until I reach my personal goal, even if that means being the first and making custom parts.

I had a spare K20C motor before I even purchased the FL5. I typically always do a full build (sometimes a little too extreme lol). So extensive that I have and continue to work with manufactures to help R&D a lot of the products that are currently on the market.

The best example I can give are with the 1.5L Turbo engine. They are known to not handle lots of power stock. Personally I modify and make as much power as I can, knowing it's a ticking time bomb. That doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing, because if I wanted "reliability" I wouldn't push it. I'd just tune the Torque to be more linear or flatline...but in my opinion that defeats the purpose (no disrespect to those are just want a little more). If I want reliability, I just won't modify the car. It can still mess up though, which is why we have lemon laws lol.

I haven't posted for a while but for my FL5, I am complete with the build as far as power (I think). It makes 480WHP on our in-house Mustang Dyno with the stock motor.

I agree! Its just a generalization but like you pointed out. Technically e85 can be ran on stock hardware. But it’s just a game of math, if you sacrifice fuel pump capacity then boost will have to be lower.

Something has got to give, either way I loved the approach that your tuner did, keep boost lower to run the e50 and just make up with timing which is what ethanol really likes.

Vito.FL5 · Jan 20, 2024

Jester04 said:
The stock fuel system can’t handle full e85, it struggles with even straight pump gas past 25psi, plus on most DI engines you can reach mbt timing with around 50% ethanol. This post was made a long time ago. So a lot more has been achieved and the limits have been slowly coming up.

@OsosikMedia is pushing a lot more power now.

Dude why tf are you going to med school?

Jester04 · Jan 20, 2024

Vito.FL5 said:
Dude why tf are you going to med school?

Lol this has me rolling on the floor. I wanted to keep my passion for cars as a hobby to never resent it.

At least that was my logic

, plus you will never run out of sick people. The way things are going Electric cars are coming for us and I’m not about to start messing with those and putting flux capacitors on them to travel back in time.

Also surprisingly people are not that different from engines. We are basically a running pump. So it translates pretty well :rofl:

I’m just a nerd that likes to learn stuff and how shit works.

OsosikMedia · Jan 20, 2024

Jester04 said:
Also surprisingly people are not that different from engines. We are basically a running pump. So it translates pretty well

This line! I'm going to tell my Dr; "I know a guy who can fix it cheaper" lol

mbaapk · Jan 20, 2024

OsosikMedia said:
It goes back to; you do what you please. At the time, this was done to show the "Max Power" for the set up. Which we were limited by hardware, software and time. I actually prefer to always run full E85 because of the convenience.

Little background, I've been one of the few (gotten into lots of debates) to say & prove that you can run full E85 on the 10th gen & 11th gen cars but if you're mechanically limited then something else gets sacrificed (but it doesn't make it impossible). There's lots of ways to approach a build and the outcome ultimately comes down to what the owner wants.

A "Good Tune" is kind of subjective to ones opinion. I would respond with: Why only make 50-75HP? I wouldn't even waste my time modifying it lol (That's just me). You can have a good tune and make 200-300 more HP but you might start breaking things. If that happens, that doesn't mean go blame the tuner and say you don't have a "good tune". Could it be a tune? Sure, but in my case it simply means the hardware can't support the new power I'm giving it (so it's time to strengthen the weak point).

There's lots of variables on this subject, but I am willing to accept consequences and am ok with pushing limits to the breaking point, so that I can continue to push the envelope until I reach my personal goal, even if that means being the first and making custom parts.

I had a spare K20C motor before I even purchased the FL5. I typically always do a full build (sometimes a little too extreme lol). So extensive that I have and continue to work with manufactures to help R&D a lot of the products that are currently on the market.

The best example I can give are with the 1.5L Turbo engine. They are known to not handle lots of power stock. Personally I modify and make as much power as I can, knowing it's a ticking time bomb. That doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing, because if I wanted "reliability" I wouldn't push it. I'd just tune the Torque to be more linear or flatline...but in my opinion that defeats the purpose (no disrespect to those are just want a little more). If I want reliability, I just won't modify the car. It can still mess up though, which is why we have lemon laws lol.

I haven't posted for a while but for my FL5, I am complete with the build as far as power (I think). It makes 480WHP on our in-house Mustang Dyno with the stock motor.

480hp without a build eventually = Grenade and most folks don’t have spare K20s laying around is my point. So you do you.

Welcome to CivicXI.com everyone!

If you're joining us from CivicX.com, then you may already have an account here!

As long as you were registered on CivicX.com as of May 24, 2020 or earlier, then you can simply login here with the same username and password!

Civic Type R Ethanol Tuning & Dyno (Preliminary) Results - Ososik

OsosikMedia

Senior Member

ValkenDnB

Senior Member

Clark_Kent

Senior Member

OsosikMedia

Senior Member

OsosikMedia

Senior Member

lilDumpsterRat

Member

OsosikMedia

Senior Member

mbaapk

Senior Member

Jester04

OsosikMedia

Senior Member

Jester04

Vito.FL5

Senior Member

Jester04

OsosikMedia

Senior Member

mbaapk

Senior Member

Similar threads

Welcome to CivicXI.com everyone! If you're joining us from CivicX.com, then you may already have an account here! As long as you were registered on CivicX.com as of May 24, 2020 or earlier, then you can simply login here with the same username and password!

Civic Type R Ethanol Tuning & Dyno (Preliminary) Results - Ososik

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Similar threads

Welcome to CivicXI.com everyone!

If you're joining us from CivicX.com, then you may already have an account here!

As long as you were registered on CivicX.com as of May 24, 2020 or earlier, then you can simply login here with the same username and password!