Cooling mods for the average Joe

[blueroadster]

Just for the “looks”

are the plastic expansion tanks overall weak on the FL5?

Good heavens...Who in the world is going to be impressed by looking at a higher pressure radiator cap on the expansion tank? Just print a custom sticker if that is your thing.

Clamshell based plastic expansion tanks are known to fail over time on many vehicles. Changing to a higher pressure cap will only increase the chances of failure much sooner as you are likely subjecting the part beyond its original engineered qualified design specification.

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[nattypiso]

One thing you can do to help lower temps thats not mentioned here is creamic costing your downpipe and heat shields, same with the turbo.

Ive heard mixed things about turbo blankets and heat wrapping downpipes

Im planning on doing that when I purchase an exhuast

I currently have PTP’s new hybrid turbo blanket and hybrid 5” downpipe clamshell. Running with RV6’s Turbo and TSP’s HEDP and no issues.

It’s funny you say that because I’ve heard mixed things about cerakote/ceramic coating as well. Someone a while ago wanted to get some thermal data since there wasn’t any data at the time. Testing was conducted with TSP’s 5" HEDP with their bronze cerakote option using factory heat shields when compared to a non ceramic/cerakoted TSP HEDP. A Flir thermal camera was used to get accurate temperatures. If I remember correctly the results were that cerakote coating has little to no effect in thermal protection for the engine bay and stock heat shields can only do so much. Those factory shields don’t completely cover the turbo/downpipe, which means high heat is still present. Still, OE shields are better than nothing.

 

[B16B]

Good heavens...Who in the world is going to be impressed by looking at a higher pressure radiator cap on the expansion tank?

You

 

[Rhorn]

I currently have PTP’s new hybrid turbo blanket and hybrid 5” downpipe clamshell. Running with RV6’s Turbo and TSP’s HEDP and no issues.

It’s funny you say that because I’ve heard mixed things about cerakote/ceramic coating as well. Someone a while ago wanted to get some thermal data since there wasn’t any data at the time. Testing was conducted with TSP’s 5" HEDP with their bronze cerakote option using factory heat shields when compared to a non ceramic/cerakoted TSP HEDP. A Flir thermal camera was used to get accurate temperatures. If I remember correctly the results were that cerakote coating has little to no effect in thermal protection for the engine bay and stock heat shields can only do so much. Those factory shields don’t completely cover the turbo/downpipe, which means high heat is still present. Still, OE shields are better than nothing.

I think I saw the same thing or something similar. The sentiment I got was that most of the coatings are basically just spray ons for looks unless you get a high quality creamic coating like Swaintech

 

[blueroadster]

Acuity makes some great products but IMHO the reverse-flow radiator hoses are a hopeium solution. The stock radiator is a single pass and the stock intercooler will still transfer the same amount of heat that the radiator will have to contend with regardless of coolant travel direction. Changing directional flow may reduce coolant temps by "as much as an additional 4.5 degrees" as claimed but what about when the intercooler is swapped out or if the radiator is upgraded?

Yikes quoting my own post...So it sounds like the reverse-flow radiator hoses simply impact thermostat readings by changing coolant flow direction through the radiator to cause the thermostat to open earlier.

I also do not understand the silicone hose construction being better than EDPM. Silicone hoses are porous and will leach out water over time resulting in reduced coolant levels and increased coolant to water ratios.

 

[a c i d.f l y]

Yikes quoting my own post...So it sounds like the reverse-flow radiator hoses simply impact thermostat readings by changing coolant flow direction through the radiator to cause the thermostat to open earlier. Not sure why that important nugget of information was not mentioned.

I also do not understand the silicone hose construction being better than EDPM. Silicone hoses are porous and will leach out water over time resulting in reduced coolant levels and increased coolant to water ratios.

I updated my original post to correct my flow statement. I don't know how moving the hot part of the radiator behind the intercooler is supposed to improve performance. Maybe it helps soak additional heat and dissipate it better at the top. Does the radiator become more or less able to absorb heat from the intercooler—or is the intercooler stopped from heating the cold side of the radiator?

I also wonder if this puts more strain on the water pump, which has to push water up through the radiator. (Edit: It shouldn't, given that it's a closed system)

Relocating the sensor was likely only necessary to be on the proper side of the flow. It won't affect when the thermostat opens, which is still a 100% temperature-release mechanical spring, but it will affect when the fans turn on - which means they'll turn on earlier.

Leaching water is a non-factor except in extreme conditions over a very long period. Flushing every 5 years will ensure this isn't ever a problem. Silicon is less resistant to bulging or collapsing under extreme circumstances and is more durable overall. It's better for higher temperatures under the hood, which is a counterpoint to this whole discussion.

There's more information here: https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/revisiting-reverse-flow-radiator-hoses.67043/

And here: https://www.civicx.com/forum/thread...ng-a-bigger-ic-wont-combat-overheating.47505/

Ventilating your hood and getting a better-designed or more efficient radiator are the primary means of maintaining driveable temperatures.


Edit: This video from Acuity explains it pretty darn clearly.

 

[siwelnosaj]

I want to share some pretty exciting news for the Type R track community! I have been working with PWR over the past couple of months and they/we will be releasing 2 versions of a triple pass radiator for the FL5 (and possibly the FK8 depending on demand).

One version will be the PWR version, and the other will be the WOT Performance by PWR version. I'm going to call it WOT spec for short.

In a general sense they will be very similar in design and concept, and both should perform extremely well. The triple pass design forces the coolant to travel along a longer path within the core, allowing it a longer period of time to cool down before traveling back towards the engine.

The WOT spec will have two primary differences:

1) More track oriented custom core spec: higher fin density, and special fin louver angle to further improve heat transfer.

2) Integrated bracket for optional transmission cooler: Built in provision on the back side of the radiator to easily add an optional transmission cooler to further reduce coolant temps by unburdening the coolant system (the OEM design uses the coolant system to cool trans fluid via the heat exchanger on the front of the transmission). The placement on the backside of the radiator is to minimize interference with the radiator and maximize efficiency.

The idea is that the PWR spec will be a massive step forward from the current track spec single pass that's available, and WOT spec will be the ultimate level stock replacement radiator available.

Both the PWR spec and WOT spec should be available in the coming weeks. Official pricing is still yet to be determined but should be in the $1400ish range (plus shipping) for the PWR spec, and $1600ish (plus shipping) for the WOT spec, with the transmission cooler add add on available for around $200.

The core of both specs will be 42mm (same as the current PWR track spec single pass radiator), and the other dimensions will also be similar with some slight changes to accommodate the different end tanks. Both specs will be a direct bolt on and will work with OEM fans and other components.

If you would like to pre-order either spec to be one of the first with this on your ride contact me. I will be the only vendor offering the WOT spec.

The picture in the post is a stock photo of the PWR track spec single pass radiator, currently there are no images yet available, but as soon as there are I will add them.

I recently hired someone to help me finish designing my website and it should be up and running here soon.

 

[blueroadster]

I updated my original post to correct my flow statement. I don't know how moving the hot part of the radiator behind the intercooler is supposed to improve performance. Maybe it helps soak additional heat and dissipate it better at the top. Does the radiator become more or less able to absorb heat from the intercooler—or is the intercooler stopped from heating the cold side of the radiator?

I also wonder if this puts more strain on the water pump, which has to push water up through the radiator. (Edit: It shouldn't, given that it's a closed system)

Relocating the sensor was likely only necessary to be on the proper side of the flow. It won't affect when the thermostat opens, which is still a 100% temperature-release mechanical spring, but it will affect when the fans turn on - which means they'll turn on earlier.

Leaching water is a non-factor except in extreme conditions over a very long period. Flushing every 5 years will ensure this isn't ever a problem. Silicon is less resistant to bulging or collapsing under extreme circumstances and is more durable overall. It's better for higher temperatures under the hood, which is a counterpoint to this whole discussion.

There's more information here: https://www.civicx.com/forum/threads/revisiting-reverse-flow-radiator-hoses.67043/

And here: https://www.civicx.com/forum/thread...ng-a-bigger-ic-wont-combat-overheating.47505/

Ventilating your hood and getting a better-designed or more efficient radiator are the primary means of maintaining driveable temperatures.


Edit: This video from Acuity explains it pretty darn clearly.

That was informative...Thanks for sharing. I better understand the purpose and function of the reverse flow hoses but think that other cooling modifications should be considered and installed well beforehand. In an otherwise stock car, I am following this installation path that makes sense in my head when the vehicle is in motion:

1. Engine bay needs some form of venting to provide an escape path for air entering from the front.
2. Intercooler needs to be replaced as the stock one (apparently T&F) gets heat soaked and does not shed heat all that well. Better to replace with a more thermally efficient T&F intercooler that cools IATs but does not restrict airflow through its core. A heavier and more restrictive B&P intercooler would tax the stock radiator in having to shed additional heat transferred to it.
3. Radiator upgrade to a larger single, double, or triple pass.
4. Other upgrades to divorce the parallel cooling system such as using a separate oil cooler, transmission cooler, etc.

I'm following the above path with the intent of getting the cooling components functioning as efficiently as possible while the vehicle is in motion to prevent the car going into limp biscuit mode.

When not in motion, there are other complementary solutions IMHO such as coatings, heat shielding, thermal barriers, changing fan settings, etc. I view those as being in a different cooling category in that none of them shed heat, they simply contain, radiate or get air moving through the engine bay.

Interested to hear thoughts...

 

[siwelnosaj]

The physical units are being built currently but here is the final design of the FL5 WOT spec triple pass radiator with transmission cooler! There is also an FK8 version in production and it will in essence be the same with different mounting points specific to the FK8.

PWR will also be releasing their own spec here soon. The WOT spec will have two primary differences:

1) More track oriented custom core spec: higher fin density, and special fin louver angle to further improve heat transfer.

2) Integrated bracket for optional transmission cooler: Built in provision on the back side of the radiator to easily add an optional transmission cooler to further reduce coolant temps by unburdening the coolant system (the OEM design uses the coolant system to cool trans fluid via the heat exchanger on the front of the transmission).

The placement on the backside of the radiator is to minimize interference with the radiator and maximize efficiency.

The idea WOT spec will be the ultimate level stock replacement radiator available.

This will fit just like the current PWR single pass radiator. No modifications needed, works with the fan and works with various intakes.

If you would like to order either spec contact me and I can set your order up. I will be the only vendor offering the WOT spec.

Price is $1600 without the transmission cooler attached (but can add it later since the bracket is on), $1800 with the transmission cooler, lines, and clamps. $120 for shipping, so $1720 or $1920 depending.

PWR spec will be $1400 plus $120 for shipping so $1520.

You have the option to plumb the transmission cooler in 2 ways: 1 is to integrate it with the OEM heat sink piece to maintain OEM warm up using coolant, or #2 is to completely bypass the OEM heat sink but at the cost of losing OEM warm up.

FK8 version will require the removal of the passenger side fan, but in talking with the PWR engineering team they feel confident this will cause no issues on the street and on the track it will actually help by removing resistance on the back side. I ran my FK8 daily and track for 2 years without the passenger side fan with zero issues even in 105+ temps in the Reno summer.

 

[Tougefl5]

Are you testing these before they get to the market or is this like a bata test once they get sold?

 

[siwelnosaj]

Are you testing these before they get to the market or is this like a bata test once they get sold?

I've already tested the HPT unit I was using previously and it performed well, but I will be testing this in 2 weekends to collect data

 

[siwelnosaj]

Massive results during track testing yesterday!

Dual oil cooler set up is working and working well. Still need to make a couple of small adjustments on fitment and finalize brackets, but given yesterday's results with the prototype, it showed it's ready to perform. Hopefully I can get these adjustments made in the next few weeks and officially put the kit up for sale. Best part is you can't even see that there's oil coolers on the car, OEM+. I'll share pictures when it's ready for sale.

Testing was done in 2 parts. Saturday ran with no oil coolers, no cooling plate, OEM radiator. Sunday I added the oil coolers and later the cooling plate. Ambient temps were low at 62°, but this testing was about relative performance, 1 for 1. Oil temps were measured using a physical sensor added into the oil pan (post engine and pre oil coolers so it's at its hottest). Coolant was measured using the OEM sensor in the head.

On Saturday to create a baseline, the car was run in OEM cooling form (OEM radiator, OEM under tray, no oil coolers) I got the car to the limit with a peak oil temp of 290° and coolant up to 249°. This was in a session where I had my last 5 laps averaging 1:55.66 on the new Buttonwillow "The Circuit".

Sunday with the oil coolers added, peak temps dropped to 255° for oil and 219° for coolant. In this session I had the last 5 average 1:55.21. A giant 35° improvement in post engine oil temps, and 30° in coolant temps!

When the cooling plate was added, peak temps dropped again with oil at 249° and coolant down to 206°. Last 5 laps averaging 1:54.41. Another drop of 6° for oil, and 13° for coolant!

I experienced zero aero issues with the cooling plate added, I achieved my highest top speeds and highest lateral Gs with it on the car, 128.4 mph and 1.46 G respectively.

I will be returning to The Circuit in 2 weeks to run the WOT spec triple pass radiator and transmission cooler and I'm hopeful ambient temps will be in the 80s or 90s to show that the whole suite of cooling items collectively can get the job done in the heat!

Once I've finalized everything on the FL5 I will be working on releasing the kit for the DE5 and FK8. All 3 cars will have the same modifications available to them.

 

[VtecSlayer]

I'm currently running the PTP Hybrid Downpipe Blanket on my TSP catted downpipe, and surface temps stay impressively low—under 90°F, verified with a laser temp gun.

If you're planning to retain the factory turbo heat shield or install an aftermarket hardlagged shield like the one from Dream, you may need to safety wire the top spring clamp for extra security. I had to slightly shift the heat shield and modify the lower mounting point to ensure proper fitment, but once in place, everything functions flawlessly.

Heat management is excellent—with consistently low IAT and IAT2 even under spirited driving. This setup is highly effective for anyone prioritizing thermal efficiency and performance.

If anyone is looking for the hybrid heat management setup here's some links.

PTP Turbo Blanket

https://vtecslayer.com/products/ptp-honda-civic-type-r-hybrid-turbo-blanket

PTP Hybrid 5" Downpipe Blanket

https://vtecslayer.com/products/ptp...-honda-civic-type-r-accord-2-0t-acura-rdx-tlx

Shoot me a message if you have any heat management related questions will be more than happy to offer you some guidance and if you need any specific photos to assist with your install or setup. I've got other things added for heat management not listed and would be happy to provide those part numbers and reasons why I choose and used them.

 

[siwelnosaj]

I'm currently running the PTP Hybrid Downpipe Blanket on my TSP catted downpipe, and surface temps stay impressively low—under 90°F, verified with a laser temp gun.

If you're planning to retain the factory turbo heat shield or install an aftermarket hardlagged shield like the one from Dream, you may need to safety wire the top spring clamp for extra security. I had to slightly shift the heat shield and modify the lower mounting point to ensure proper fitment, but once in place, everything functions flawlessly.

Heat management is excellent—with consistently low IAT and IAT2 even under spirited driving. This setup is highly effective for anyone prioritizing thermal efficiency and performance.

If anyone is looking for the hybrid heat management setup here's some links.

PTP Turbo Blanket

https://vtecslayer.com/products/ptp-honda-civic-type-r-hybrid-turbo-blanket

PTP Hybrid 5" Downpipe Blanket

https://vtecslayer.com/products/ptp...-honda-civic-type-r-accord-2-0t-acura-rdx-tlx

Shoot me a message if you have any heat management related questions will be more than happy to offer you some guidance and if you need any specific photos to assist with your install or setup. I've got other things added for heat management not listed and would be happy to provide those part numbers and reasons why I choose and used them.

That's impressive

 

[nattypiso]

I'm currently running the PTP Hybrid Downpipe Blanket on my TSP catted downpipe, and surface temps stay impressively low—under 90°F, verified with a laser temp gun.

If you're planning to retain the factory turbo heat shield or install an aftermarket hardlagged shield like the one from Dream, you may need to safety wire the top spring clamp for extra security. I had to slightly shift the heat shield and modify the lower mounting point to ensure proper fitment, but once in place, everything functions flawlessly.

Heat management is excellent—with consistently low IAT and IAT2 even under spirited driving. This setup is highly effective for anyone prioritizing thermal efficiency and performance.

If anyone is looking for the hybrid heat management setup here's some links.

PTP Turbo Blanket

https://vtecslayer.com/products/ptp-honda-civic-type-r-hybrid-turbo-blanket

PTP Hybrid 5" Downpipe Blanket

https://vtecslayer.com/products/ptp...-honda-civic-type-r-accord-2-0t-acura-rdx-tlx

Shoot me a message if you have any heat management related questions will be more than happy to offer you some guidance and if you need any specific photos to assist with your install or setup. I've got other things added for heat management not listed and would be happy to provide those part numbers and reasons why I choose and used them.

I’m running both PTP’s Turbo and Downpipe blankets as well, really good heat management imo.

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