2023 Civic Type R First Test: The Numbers Are Surprising [Motortrend Review]

[Tickle]

Lol...

I just realized I can't see Boosts posts. Absolutely hilarious.

There can be no doubt he is discussing VW/DSG and trap speeds in some order. Unimpressed with the FL5.

Lol

I love VW... I think the GTI is up there with the greats as far as cars go. Elantra N is also pretty awesome as far as what I read.

Such a fun class.

FL5
GTI
Elantra N
Si
GLI
Golf R
WRX I guess
GR Corolla
Mazda 3

I'm surely missing some...

Every manufacturer should be in this arena. Such a range to fit something in and have a car for your brand.

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[Ministry]

[QUOTE="Y82OneTwoSix, post: 845279, member: 41694"
Power to weight ratio aside between these two models, there is no question that the FL5 is an outstanding automobile and has a terrific new design but unfortunately comes with a steep price for most of us CTR enthusiasts.
[/QUOTE]

So, to get this straight, you have a 2021 LE, a model with a current market cost in the mid 50k range and your conclusion is the FL5 comes in at a steep price for CTR enthusiasts?

 

[savagegeese]

I’m starting to get AP1/AP2 vibes with the FK8 and FL5. Those in the S2000 community will no what I’m talking about. There’s a saying (that’s fairly pervasive though not universal):

“The AP2 is a better car, the AP1 is a better S2000.”

The AP2 had more major mechanical updates, engine, transmission, subframe, damper and spring rate changes. The FL5 changes are mostly the aesthetics, they carry over most of the core pieces. But like any Honda discussion we have had for 20 years, never is there a massive change in any serious performance, model to model. You either like the cars or not.

 

[Y82OneTwoSix]

[QUOTE="Y82OneTwoSix, post: 845279, member: 41694"
Power to weight ratio aside between these two models, there is no question that the FL5 is an outstanding automobile and has a terrific new design but unfortunately comes with a steep price for most of us CTR enthusiasts.

So, to get this straight, you have a 2021 LE, a model with a current market cost in the mid 50k range and your conclusion is the FL5 comes in at a steep price for CTR enthusiasts?
[/QUOTE]

That is correct.

Am I missing something with respect to the present ADM pricing for the FL5 or are you suggesting that present pricing for an FL5 is normal and that enthusiasts such as yourself and others are able to purchase your FL5's at MSRP or slightly over MSRP?

I have made dozens of phone calls to dealerships in my area and around other parts of the U.S. and came away very disappointed with their price points therefore started to focus on other options but still wanted to stay with the outstanding CTR model.

Regarding present pricing for a 2021 LE, did I ever suggest that the FK8 LE's were inexpensive to purchase and in fact your estimate of a mid $50K range may be on the low side when looking at a very low mileage and showroom condition example as that is what I am presently looking at as we speak.

For anyone to compare present pricing on a CTR LE that comes with a unique body/roof paint scheme, chassis number along with much better performance tires/wheels and some delete items, that adds up to the LE coming in at ~115# lighter than a regular production FL5 which allows for slightly better performance times therefore a comparision between the two whether it be centered around pricing or otherwise does not make any sense.

BTW, congratulations on your purchase of #684 as Boost Blue is an outstanding color and if I had my choice of colors for a new FL5 is would be BB.

 

[Robert.C]

The AP2 had more major mechanical updates, engine, transmission, subframe, damper and spring rate changes. The FL5 changes are mostly the aesthetics, they carry over most of the core pieces. But like any Honda discussion we have had for 20 years, never is there a massive change in any serious performance, model to model. You either like the cars or not.

It all depends on how you define “massive,” I suppose. Going from B-series to K-series or all-motor to turbocharged seem fairly significant to me. But in the case of the FK8 and FL5, I do agree, there haven’t been massive mechanical changes.

 

[FLRib]

Why the fuck would you compare a DSG against a manual?

I agree! Maybe they never owned a Type R. The Type R is about driving experience and not about numbers. That why every Type R produced is sold immediately

 

[Ministry]

So, to get this straight, you have a 2021 LE, a model with a current market cost in the mid 50k range and your conclusion is the FL5 comes in at a steep price for CTR enthusiasts?

That is correct.

Am I missing something with respect to the present ADM pricing for the FL5 or are you suggesting that present pricing for an FL5 is normal and that enthusiasts such as yourself and others are able to purchase your FL5's at MSRP or slightly over MSRP?

I have made dozens of phone calls to dealerships in my area and around other parts of the U.S. and came away very disappointed with their price points therefore started to focus on other options but still wanted to stay with the outstanding CTR model.

Regarding present pricing for a 2021 LE, did I ever suggest that the FK8 LE's were inexpensive to purchase and in fact your estimate of a mid $50K range may be on the low side when looking at a very low mileage and showroom condition example as that is what I am presently looking at as we speak.

For anyone to compare present pricing on a CTR LE that comes with a unique body/roof paint scheme, chassis number along with much better performance tires/wheels and some delete items, that adds up to the LE coming in at ~115# lighter than a regular production FL5 which allows for slightly better performance times therefore a comparision between the two whether it be centered around pricing or otherwise does not make any sense.

BTW, congratulations on your purchase of #684 as Boost Blue is an outstanding color and if I had my choice of colors for a new FL5 is would be BB.
[/QUOTE]


I don't disagree with much of your posts, just thought it was puzzling to add the line about the FL5 coming at a steep price for CTR enthusiasts as from my standpoint, any version of the Type R comes in fairly steep these days. An LE would have cost me about 4-5k over what I paid for my FL5 and I almost purchased a lightly used 2021 FK8 a few months back for 49k, also over what I paid.

 

[Jimi]

Who buys a Type R for its “numbers” only?

NSX-R, Civic R. Integra R

None was the fastest of its era however ALL where the purest driving experience. That is why people want a type R.

Some people don’t understand the Type R DNA,

 

[Vtak Groceries]

So the thing is the trap speed of the FL5 being about 4MPH slower than the Type R LE is a bit telling and I do think the FL5 should be quicker there. Could be weight difference of the wheels and car but the engine is suppose to have more power. But still, you dont buy the FL5 for straight line speed.

Coming from a 450whp MK7 Golf R that ran 11.5 @ 120mph there is not much comparison between the two. The DSG trans and AWD make the Golf way faster than the Type R in most real world driving situations. But again your buying the FL5 for different reasons such as superior driving feel / enjoyment and much improved vehicle depreciation curves. I personally enjoy my Type R way more than the Golf R even though the Golf was leagues faster in a straight line. Everything about the FL5 has been tuned for driver enjoyment and you can really tell. Thats why so many reviewers love it and compare it to Porsche level driving dynamics.

 

[Apex Carver]

For me, just the fact that the car didnt overheat like the FK8 did during Motortrend's testing at the track is enough for me to want a FL5 over the FK8. The whole overheating thing infuriated me and was a total buzz kill for the car.

 

[VarmintCong]

don't care for 0-60 for a fwd car but trap speeds matter. Thing is this car couldn't pull on a 240hp GTI is kinda lame.

It pulled on the Golf R from a roll race, are you saying the GTI is faster than the Golf R?

I love the MkVII but the Mk8 just doesn't do anything for me, especially the interior.

 

[VarmintCong]

So the thing is the trap speed of the FL5 being about 4MPH slower than the Type R LE is a bit telling and I do think the FL5 should be quicker there. Could be weight difference of the wheels and car but the engine is suppose to have more power. But still, you dont buy the FL5 for straight line speed.

Coming from a 450whp MK7 Golf R that ran 11.5 @ 120mph there is not much comparison between the two. The DSG trans and AWD make the Golf way faster than the Type R in most real world driving situations. But again your buying the FL5 for different reasons such as superior driving feel / enjoyment and much improved vehicle depreciation curves. I personally enjoy my Type R way more than the Golf R even though the Golf was leagues faster in a straight line. Everything about the FL5 has been tuned for driver enjoyment and you can really tell. Thats why so many reviewers love it and compare it to Porsche level driving dynamics.

I found my 2020 Si more fun than the MkVII GTI, which I really wanted to buy, I test drove it like 4 times trying to convince myself lol. The driving just leaves me cold. I actually like the Focus ST-Line better, you sit lower, steering is better, you just feel more connected. Shifter was awful on the GTI also.

 

[Y82OneTwoSix]

Who buys a Type R for its “numbers” only?

NSX-R, Civic R. Integra R

None was the fastest of its era however ALL where the purest driving experience. That is why people want a type R.

Some people don’t understand the Type R DNA,

Well said and totally agree about the Honda/Acura driving experience as have owned many various models over the last 35 years including a 2018 RR CTR that my wife drove more than I did as she is an outstanding driver and understands all the great attributes of the CTR..

Back in 1987 when Acura was launching in Canada, I headed to an Acura dealership in Richmond, B.C. and purchased an '87 Acura LS 5-door hatchback with a whole 113 HP.

Drove that vehicle for 4 1/2 years and put on ~250,000 KM's on it without a lick of issues.

During the Fall of 1991 while living in Winnipeg, Manitoba I read about a new Acura model namely the 1992 GS-R and heading directly down to the local Acura dealership in order to inquire about this new model.

Was told that within a couple of weeks that their dealership was actually going to unveil the first GS-R in Canada and that Acura Canada had invited all the Acura dealerships to the unveiling and that I could look at the car the following day.

I immediately asked if the GS-R launch vehicle was for sale and was told that it would remain with Acura Canada until futher notice.

Was able to sit in that Black GS-R the day after the unveiling but the vehicle was going back to the Markham, Ontario corporate office headquarters soon.

Long story short, that vehicle never made it back to Ontario and after being persistant I was able to purchase that vehicle therefore never say never on some of these scenarios.

Added some Sparco racing wheels, stiffer/lower springs, Yokohama tires and went autocrossing and never had an issue with that 1.7 L VTEC engine and regularly shifted it at the 8,000 RPM redline which was well beyond belief for my fellow car buddies back in the Fall of 1991.

There is a reason that so many of us are loyal to the Honda/Acura brand as it comes down to the overall driving engagement and experience and no question that the DNA of the Type R is a big part of that pure driving enjoyment.

 

[Stick_shifter96]

I couldn't get on a waitlist number that was worth waiting for. Was #6 so maybe a MY25. I'm sad that I could not secure the CTR but it does not make me bitter towards it in no way whatsoever. The FL5 is an instant classic and people who have been lucky enough to get one are definitely gonna be grinning ear to ear every time they drive it.
Being in Canada, and I can only own one car for now, I am locked in for a Golf R next fall, which is a much more practical vehicle, at least for my case. But whenever I see a FL5 on the road, it'll only be the mutual respectful head nod, because both drivers know that they made a great decision

 

[Pierito]

I was really confused with the last few pages of posts because it seemed like people were arguing with themselves but then I realized its because I set boostlags posts to "ignore" months ago.

Gotta love forum features.

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