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Any of you “downgrading” to get into an FL5?

zeroptzero

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All very excellent points.

I think in world where the quickest 0-60 and fastest Nring time helps marketing departments. I enjoy the drive.

It's why the S2000 has always amazed me. I would be rambling if I continued on.
My S2000 was an Ap1, they suffered from snap oversteer due to suspension geometry. In the hands of a professional and track guru they are fine, I never wanted to push mine to the cornering limit and I never wanted my son to drive it. It could bite if you got into the wrong situation. The Ap2 S2000's were less susceptible to snap oversteer.

I get almost as much satisfaction driving my 22 Civic Si as I did my S2000 for different reasons, and I let my son drive my Si without concerns. The RWD vs FWD doesn't factor into things all that much for me, you can have fun cars with any drivetrain. I've had lots of FWD, RWD, and AWD cars. MY AWD cars are no more fun than my FWD cars other than winter conditions, both are great for different reasons. I could have a lot of fun in a CTR let me tell you.

 
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Tickle

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My S2000 was an Ap1, they suffered from snap oversteer due to suspension geometry. In the hands of a professional and track guru they are fine, I never wanted to push mine to the cornering limit and I never wanted my son to drive it. It could bite if you got into the wrong situation. The Ap2 S2000's were less susceptible to snap oversteer. I get almost as much satisfaction driving my 22 Civic Si as I did my S2000 for different reasons, and I let my son drive my Si without concerns. The RWD vs FWD doesn't factor into things all that much for me, you can have fun cars with any drivetrain. MY AWD cars are no more fun than my FWD cars, both are great for different reasons. I could have a lot of fun in a CTR let me tell you.
I never experienced it in an AP1 or AP2... I have more experience in an AP2 however... I've never been to the track so I can't say I pushed the car to any sort of limit. That said I always enjoyed the cars precision and response and shifter. It is such a fun car. I'm sure capable of quick laps in the proper hands but fun to drive and thrilling to all my driver senses.
 

s2kdriver80

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After every service, Billman would give me a "ride" around the block near his shop to demonstrate the car's abilities, that would end up with me being carsick. :drive:


 
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Warpspeed

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You are using the strength of one vs the weakness of another not apples to apples.

If you compare measured statss, like track times, NVH, tech availability, comfort, size and practicality, 0-60 etc etc. I find it hard to belive the EVO would come out on top (stock for stock) or even beat the R in 2 of those categories.

I think you have a biased lens on what is an "upgrade" given your fondness of the car u already own and love.
So you're pretty much saying since the Evo is 2003 and my Type R is 2020 then it's an upgrade (apples to apples). How about a 97" R34 to a 2023 FL5? Upgrade or downgrade?
 


RoidRage

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So you're pretty much saying since the Evo is 2003 and my Type R is 2020 then it's an upgrade (apples to apples). How about a 97" R34 to a 2023 FL5? Upgrade or downgrade?
It depends on how you define a upgrade or downgrade now doesn't it? Car value upgrade, usability downgrade, track performance downgrade. Get it? I look at this comparison objectively, I think for you it's more subjectively.

Just because u might value the R34 because it holds a special place in ur heart or within the communities, doesn't necessarily mean it's an upgrade if you evaluate it without any bias and assess each point objectively vs . Subjectively.

Also the R34 is in a different price bracket all together, this is like asking to compare the R34 to a 765LT.

The EVO simply doesn't do anything better than the FL5 aside from its AWD advantage. It's not worth more, less practical, worse mpg, less reliable etc etc, it's objectively worse in every category. So you tell me, is the EVO a upgrade or a downgrade when you look at the actual facts. I'm not saying the EVO is shit, I'm saying your emotional tie to the EVO is clouding you ability to actually assess the 2 cars based on their actual offerings.
 
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DPE

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Back to the OP comments, I test drove an M2 comp about a year into CTR ownership. It was a little odd getting back into the CTR and realizing the seats, steering, shifter, brakes and ride were all better in the Honda. And by 'better' in terms of the inputs, I mean the CTR is simply more connected to the driver. Honda worked extremely hard on getting the feel and overall ergonomics correct for people who like driving, and succeeded (save for placement of the accelerator pedal, which is too far from the brake pedal but fixable with a Perrin pedal spacer). The M2 does drive the correct wheels and has a much more potent engine, but beyond that it wasn't as compelling. I suspect the new one will be a notch up, and in some ways worth it no doubt, but it'll have to be a lot better in a lot of ways than an FL5 for me to care. I'm still pondering a 4V Blackwing, but with the way times are now and what I think is coming for the next couple years, I'll keep my order for an FL5 in and trade the FK8 if it ever shows up. And continue enjoying the FK8 indefinitely if need be.
 

007

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The M2C is a fast, good looking sports coupe, but ultimately I find modern Hondas like the CTR more engaging.

The older I grew, the less crap I want in a car. I’m all about bare bones these days. I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about heated steering wheels, power seats, and other nonsense.

I heard so many reviewers complain about lack of vents and USB plugs in the rear of the CTR. But how is that a negative? - It’s brilliant! If your passengers don’t like it, tough shit. In the BMW world, you have to pay $30k extra to get those things deleted… they call it “CS”… now there’s something to complain about lol.

Give me a lightweight car with a clutch pedal and cloth seats and I’m game.
 

Tickle

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The M2C is a fast, good looking sports coupe, but ultimately I find modern Hondas like the CTR more engaging.

The older I grew, the less crap I want in a car. I’m all about bare bones these days. I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about heated steering wheels, power seats, and other nonsense.

I heard so many reviewers complain about lack of vents and USB plugs in the rear of the CTR. But how is that a negative? - It’s brilliant! If your passengers don’t like it, tough shit. In the BMW world, you have to pay $30k extra to get those things deleted… they call it “CS”… now there’s something to complain about lol.

Give me a lightweight car with a clutch pedal and cloth seats and I’m game.
While my son is older. Some may have tiny humans. So ventilation and USB action in the rear very well could sound like a good thing.

I understand where you are coming from. I would be just fine if Honda made a Type R and a Type R Touring with more comfort features.

I'm not asking for much.. Maybe something that combines the JDM and USDM.

Alcantara read seat (maybe not steering wheel though)
Heated seats
Bose Amp
Parking sensors

Also some stuff like auto wipers would be a nice touch.

I would pay more for that.
 

Stick_shifter96

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The M2C is a fast, good looking sports coupe, but ultimately I find modern Hondas like the CTR more engaging.

The older I grew, the less crap I want in a car. I’m all about bare bones these days. I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about heated steering wheels, power seats, and other nonsense.

I heard so many reviewers complain about lack of vents and USB plugs in the rear of the CTR. But how is that a negative? - It’s brilliant! If your passengers don’t like it, tough shit. In the BMW world, you have to pay $30k extra to get those things deleted… they call it “CS”… now there’s something to complain about lol.

Give me a lightweight car with a clutch pedal and cloth seats and I’m game.
You have a 2021 M2C man 😩 Why are you thinking of getting the FL5? 🤔 I was sold on the M2C until I saw the new CTR and saw how much more practical it is in real life, and can be driven all year round too.
 


RoidRage

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You have a 2021 M2C man 😩 Why are you thinking of getting the FL5? 🤔 I was sold on the M2C until I saw the new CTR and saw how much more practical it is in real life, and can be driven all year round too.
I too am cross shopping the M2C lol. But can't get around it being 2 doors. Wife might chop my nuts off.
 

Stick_shifter96

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I too am cross shopping the M2C lol. But can't get around it being 2 doors. Wife might chop my nuts off.
I am sorry to hear that. It sounds pretty painful. I won't be having that issue in the foreseeable future, and that 53:47 weight distribution is really tempting.
 

007

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You have a 2021 M2C man 😩 Why are you thinking of getting the FL5? 🤔 I was sold on the M2C until I saw the new CTR and saw how much more practical it is in real life, and can be driven all year round too.
Because the grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Ultimately it comes down to what you value most in a car.

Ask yourself… are you the type who has to feed his ego with a BMW badge, a lot more power, and RWD because the internet told you it’s “better” than FWD? - If the answer is yes - or somewhere in-between - chances are you’ll love the M2C.

I got rid of it because despite being a manual, it just wasn’t engaging enough for my liking. It’s far heavier than a CTR, the steering is extremely numb, and it’s simply too refined, which results in little connection and driver feedback. Basically the complete opposite of the e36/e46 M3’s I owned for nearly two decades. Power delivery was also annoying, as it pulls extremely hard down low and goes flat as you rev it out, which takes the fun out of it. Anytime you step on it, you’re doing triple digits and that’s just not what I want anymore.

I don’t expect folks to understand why slower is better, so I’ll just leave it at that.

I never owned a CTR, but have driven the fk8 on multiple occasions and I must say that it hits the sweet spot of being neither too fast nor too slow. Most importantly, it’s light on its feet and that’s something I pick up on instantly.

Don’t let the FWD vs RWD nonsense you hear on the forums cloud your judgement. There’s more to a fun car than its drive or power. A well sorted FWD chassis can feel more planted and predictable than RWD.

Either you know it or you don’t. The problem with car forums is extreme bias. If you end up liking the M2C, that’s cool. We all look for different things when evaluating cars. All in all, it’s a good car. I owned it for a year and loved it at first, but that nostalgia quickly wore off. For context, I owned my e46 M3 for almost 13 years and it never failed to amaze me.

If the FL5 is anywhere remotely as nimble and direct as the FK8, then I’m in for a treat.
 

Stick_shifter96

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Because the grass isn’t always greener on the other side. Ultimately it comes down to what you value most in a car.

Ask yourself… are you the type who has to feed his ego with a BMW badge, a lot more power, and RWD because the internet told you it’s “better” than FWD? - If the answer is yes - or somewhere in-between - chances are you’ll love the M2C.

I got rid of it because despite being a manual, it just wasn’t engaging enough for my liking. It’s far heavier than a CTR, the steering is extremely numb, and it’s simply too refined, which results in little connection and driver feedback. Basically the complete opposite of the e36/e46 M3’s I owned for nearly two decades. Power delivery was also annoying, as it pulls extremely hard down low and goes flat as you rev it out, which takes the fun out of it. Anytime you step on it, you’re doing triple digits and that’s just not what I want anymore.

I don’t expect folks to understand why slower is better, so I’ll just leave it at that.

I never owned a CTR, but have driven the fk8 on multiple occasions and I must say that it hits the sweet spot of being neither too fast nor too slow. Most importantly, it’s light on its feet and that’s something I pick up on instantly.

Don’t let the FWD vs RWD nonsense you hear on the forums cloud your judgement. There’s more to a fun car than its drive or power. A well sorted FWD chassis can feel more planted and predictable than RWD.

Either you know it or you don’t. The problem with car forums is extreme bias. If you end up liking the M2C, that’s cool. We all look for different things when evaluating cars. All in all, it’s a good car. I owned it for a year and loved it at first, but that nostalgia quickly wore off. For context, I owned my e46 M3 for almost 13 years and it never failed to amaze me.

If the FL5 is anywhere remotely as nimble and direct as the FK8, then I’m in for a treat.
I really appreciate your candidness good sir.
I've test driven the M2C once, and although it was on a back road, I could clearly see why people really like it. But honestly, in that moment, doing 150km/hr in a 60km/hr zone, I realized its just too much power for the road to actually enjoy. And there is only one quote that I go by, "Its more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow."
I agree with your viewpoint, hell, I second it. My FWD Accord gives me the greatest driving pleasure I can hope for, and I am certain the CTR will only improve on it. If I can get the 2023MY that is. Otherwise, I might shell out for a pre-owned post 2020 refresh CTR. Lets see
 
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Tickle

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I really appreciate your candidness good sir.
I've test driven the M2C once, and although it was on a back road, I could clearly see why people really like it. But honestly, in that moment, doing 150km/hr in a 60km/hr zone, I realized its just too much power for the road to actually enjoy. And there is only one quote that I go by, "Its more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow."
I agree with your viewpoint, hell, I second it. My FWD Accord gives me the greatest driving pleasure I can hope for, and I am certain the CTR will only improve on it. If I can get the 2023MY that is. Otherwise, I might shell out for a pre-owned post 2020 refresh CTR. Lets see
What Accord do you have?

 

 
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