MY2027 Paused for Civic Si

[Saywhaat04]

This misses the mark entirely on the si. The prelude was also a derivative vehicle (in the past it was based off the Accord), the si is a trim that embodies ideas and heritage that Honda has built. Notice how the SI trim of any Honda vehicle was always more sporty at the very least. To say the Type R cannibalizes the SI fails to understand what SI means - sport injected versus type racing.

I don't disagree that it'll change in a few years, but in the immediate I don't see any reason for Honda to make it a hybrid. If they did it would be closer to a type S or A spec than it would a si or a type R.

Ya'll have way more faith in Honda than I do. Honda has made questionable decisions in the last decade or so that make me skeptical about the direction of the brand. Losing millions of dollars in the last year or so aint helping. lol.

The current CIvic is in its 5th year of production and will be redesigned for 2028 (likely on sale by this time next year)so the next CIvic and the next SI's future is literally right around the corner. I fully expect the new Civic to debut sometime between Nov and January of next year and be on sale by the spring as a 2028 model.

Most of SI's competition have moved away from manuals. GTI and GLI are both automatic only going forward. Si's competition also offers more power, more features over the SI as well.
SI has been a parts bin special since the 9th generation. Its had the same 200hp and basically the same engine as the pedestrain CIvic since the 10th generation and even shared the same alloy wheels and basic design since the 10th gen. Today, the pedestrrian Civic is faster, gets better mpg and cost less than the SI does. . SI has become redudnant and irrelevant to its own competition and to other trim levels within the Civic lineup (Hybrid CIvics and the Type R both of ) so its not surprising that the Si (and the Aspec 6MT) are dead for 2026 and MIGHT be coming back later.

Journalist who have driven the NEW Civic protoype say it drives like an "automatic SI"

My point is everybody has moved on except the SI. The SI is basically trying to hold on to two things that are disappering from every other Honda: the 1.5t and the 6MT. The 1.5t has largely been replaced by the Hybrid and the 6MT has been largely replaced by the e-CVT.

Anyway...
The point was made that Honda wouldn't make an SI with a CVT or none manual: They have and still basically do in other markets and Civic and Prelude are the examples. The Integra Aspec already comes with a 1.5t and CVT.

As far as the Prelude being derivative. Yes, and So what? The Prelude, is still derivative. Prelude, CRV, HRV, ADX, Integra and Accord all share the same platform with the Civic today. Prelude was once Honda's technological showcase model, that role has been taken over by the CIvic and to some extent the Accord. The point I made was simple: If Honda would make the Prelude a hybrid only, e-cvt CIvic coupe dont be surprised if the next SI (and even the Type R) are hybrids too. The future is now, the current CIvic is in its final years of production and the car will have to evolve to meet emissions standards globally.

The SI doesn't sell well enough for Honda to care about "heritage" its a niche product that is low profit and parts bin special that has become irrelevant because Honda didnt invest in the SI in the same way VW, Hyundai and Subaru have invested in the SI's competition because Honda would rather sale a higher profit margin Type R (and Type S) than worry about selling a CIvic or Integra with a 1.5t engine that is being phased out in everything in the next few years when it is replaced with the 2.0 Hybrid that will go in the HRV, CRV, Accord, ADX and eventually the Integra.

Sponsored

 

[Websitesdown]

Ya'll have way more faith in Honda than I do. Honda has made questionable decisions in the last decade or so that make me skeptical about the direction of the brand. Losing millions of dollars in the last year or so aint helping. lol.

The current CIvic is in its 5th year of production and will be redesigned for 2028 (likely on sale by this time next year)so the next CIvic and the next SI's future is literally right around the corner. I fully expect the new Civic to debut sometime between Nov and January of next year and be on sale by the spring as a 2028 model.

Most of SI's competition have moved away from manuals. GTI and GLI are both automatic only going forward. Si's competition also offers more power, more features over the SI as well.
SI has been a parts bin special since the 9th generation. Its had the same 200hp and basically the same engine as the pedestrain CIvic since the 10th generation and even shared the same alloy wheels and basic design since the 10th gen. Today, the pedestrrian Civic is faster, gets better mpg and cost less than the SI does. . SI has become redudnant and irrelevant to its own competition and to other trim levels within the Civic lineup (Hybrid CIvics and the Type R both of ) so its not surprising that the Si (and the Aspec 6MT) are dead for 2026 and MIGHT be coming back later.

Journalist who have driven the NEW Civic protoype say it drives like an "automatic SI"

My point is everybody has moved on except the SI. The SI is basically trying to hold on to two things that are disappering from every other Honda: the 1.5t and the 6MT. The 1.5t has largely been replaced by the Hybrid and the 6MT has been largely replaced by the e-CVT.

Anyway...
The point was made that Honda wouldn't make an SI with a CVT or none manual: They have and still basically do in other markets and Civic and Prelude are the examples. The Integra Aspec already comes with a 1.5t and CVT.

As far as the Prelude being derivative. Yes, and So what? The Prelude, is still derivative. Prelude, CRV, HRV, ADX, Integra and Accord all share the same platform with the Civic today. Prelude was once Honda's technological showcase model, that role has been taken over by the CIvic and to some extent the Accord. The point I made was simple: If Honda would make the Prelude a hybrid only, e-cvt CIvic coupe dont be surprised if the next SI (and even the Type R) are hybrids too. The future is now, the current CIvic is in its final years of production and the car will have to evolve to meet emissions standards globally.

The SI doesn't sell well enough for Honda to care about "heritage" its a niche product that is low profit and parts bin special that has become irrelevant because Honda didnt invest in the SI in the same way VW, Hyundai and Subaru have invested in the SI's competition because Honda would rather sale a higher profit margin Type R (and Type S) than worry about selling a CIvic or Integra with a 1.5t engine that is being phased out in everything in the next few years when it is replaced with the 2.0 Hybrid that will go in the HRV, CRV, Accord, ADX and eventually the Integra.

11th-Gen Civic 0–60 MPH Comparison

The performance across the entire 11th-generation lineup (2022+ model years) spans from everyday commuters to track-ready hot hatches:

Civic Type R (2.0L Turbo Manual): 4.9 seconds — The absolute performance king of the lineup, boasting 315 horsepower.

Civic Hybrid (2.0L + Dual Electric Motors): 6.2 to 6.4 seconds — The surprise sleeper of the family. Its 232 lb-ft of instant electric torque and lack of traditional shifts make it the quickest "non-Type R" Civic.

Civic Si (1.5L Turbo Manual): 6.8 to 7.1 seconds — While it makes 200 hp, the physical time it takes to slip the clutch off the line and shift into 3rd gear just before hitting 60 mph hurts its dead-stop sprint times.

Civic EX / Touring (1.5L Turbo CVT): 7.4 to 7.5 seconds — The continuous power delivery of the CVT allows the 180-hp turbo engine to keep pace surprisingly well with the more powerful Si.

Civic LX / Sport (2.0L NA CVT): 7.8 to 9.2 seconds
— The entry-level, naturally aspirated engine is tuned strictly for fuel economy and daily commuting.

Rolling Races Tell a Different Story

While the Hybrid wins the stoplight-to-stoplight sprint, enthusiast testing via Car and Driver shows that once both cars are already moving (such as a 5–60 mph rolling start or a quarter-mile race), the Civic Si's lighter weight and top-end horsepower allow it to pull away from the hybrid, achieving a higher quarter-mile trap speed.



I just googled it.

 

[Saywhaat04]

11th-Gen Civic 0–60 MPH Comparison

The performance across the entire 11th-generation lineup (2022+ model years) spans from everyday commuters to track-ready hot hatches:

Civic Type R (2.0L Turbo Manual): 4.9 seconds — The absolute performance king of the lineup, boasting 315 horsepower.

Civic Hybrid (2.0L + Dual Electric Motors): 6.2 to 6.4 seconds — The surprise sleeper of the family. Its 232 lb-ft of instant electric torque and lack of traditional shifts make it the quickest "non-Type R" Civic.

Civic Si (1.5L Turbo Manual): 6.8 to 7.1 seconds — While it makes 200 hp, the physical time it takes to slip the clutch off the line and shift into 3rd gear just before hitting 60 mph hurts its dead-stop sprint times.

Civic EX / Touring (1.5L Turbo CVT): 7.4 to 7.5 seconds — The continuous power delivery of the CVT allows the 180-hp turbo engine to keep pace surprisingly well with the more powerful Si.

Civic LX / Sport (2.0L NA CVT): 7.8 to 9.2 seconds
— The entry-level, naturally aspirated engine is tuned strictly for fuel economy and daily commuting.

Rolling Races Tell a Different Story

While the Hybrid wins the stoplight-to-stoplight sprint, enthusiast testing via Car and Driver shows that once both cars are already moving (such as a 5–60 mph rolling start or a quarter-mile race), the Civic Si's lighter weight and top-end horsepower allow it to pull away from the hybrid, achieving a higher quarter-mile trap speed.



I just googled it.

Ok, I'll email you a cookie. 1.5t is dead in every CIvic except the SI and Integra. And your "google serach" just proved everything I basically said in my previous post. the 1.5t was barely any slower than the SI, the Hybrid is either faster or even with the SI but gets way better mpg, the Type R is the Type R and all of the SI's competition is faster. SI would be relevant if it had the Accord 2.0t which would have given it more distance from the 1.5t Civic and probably better performance than the Hybrid but Honda never offered it. Now we have a 1.5t thats being dropped from Hondas left and right for the HYbrid powertrain while the SI and Integra with said 1.5t/6mt is being put on "Hold"

You addressed nothign about emissions, the next CIvic, etc. Just a bunch of 0-60 times which pretty much prove my point.

Thank you. LOL and good night.

 

[Websitesdown]

Ok, I'll email you a cookie. 1.5t is dead in every CIvic except the SI and Integra. And your "google serach" just proved everything I basically said in my previous post. the 1.5t was barely any slower than the SI, the Hybrid is either faster or even with the SI but gets way better mpg, the Type R is the Type R and all of the SI's competition is faster. SI would be relevant if it had the Accord 2.0t which would have given it more distance from the 1.5t Civic and probably better performance than the Hybrid but Honda never offered it. Now we have a 1.5t thats being dropped from Hondas left and right for the HYbrid powertrain while the SI and Integra with said 1.5t/6mt is being put on "Hold"

You addressed nothign about emissions, the next CIvic, etc. Just a bunch of 0-60 times which pretty much prove my point.

Thank you. LOL and good night.

Okay we'll exchange cookies then.

SI has been a parts bin special since the 9th generation. Its had the same 200hp and basically the same engine as the pedestrain CIvic since the 10th generation and even shared the same alloy wheels and basic design since the 10th gen. Today, the pedestrrian Civic is faster, gets better mpg and cost less than the SI does. . SI has become redudnant and irrelevant to its own competition and to other trim levels within the Civic lineup (Hybrid CIvics and the Type R both of ) so its not surprising that the Si (and the Aspec 6MT) are dead for 2026 and MIGHT be coming back later.

The Civic hybrid is not what I'd call the pedestrian Civic and the si pulls away in a quarter mile. I'd also guess that the si has beefier internals compared to the lesser civics hybrid included.

It also is faster then the other lesser Civic models in 0-60 minus the hybrid.

Goodnight sunshine

 

[Cueyo]

Ya'll have way more faith in Honda than I do. Honda has made questionable decisions in the last decade or so that make me skeptical about the direction of the brand. Losing millions of dollars in the last year or so aint helping. lol.

Most of that was lost because of the EV segment being reeled back Honda continues to be a bestseller. But you're right about their decisions being questionable. The old executives could see it when they tried the cou recently.

The current CIvic is in its 5th year of production and will be redesigned for 2028 (likely on sale by this time next year)so the next CIvic and the next SI's future is literally right around the corner. I fully expect the new Civic to debut sometime between Nov and January of next year and be on sale by the spring as a 2028 model.

I think that's pretty bold or an assumption given Honda said they're waiting till the turn of the decade for most of their models. Plus the civic had a facelift last year. Still 2028 is a whole away, and that's money on the table by not making the SI or A spec when Acura still uses the engine.

Most of SI's competition have moved away from manuals. GTI and GLI are both automatic only going forward. Si's competition also offers more power, more features over the SI as well.
SI has been a parts bin special since the 9th generation. Its had the same 200hp and basically the same engine as the pedestrain CIvic since the 10th generation and even shared the same alloy wheels and basic design since the 10th gen. Today, the pedestrrian Civic is faster, gets better mpg and cost less than the SI does. . SI has become redudnant and irrelevant to its own competition and to other trim levels within the Civic lineup (Hybrid CIvics and the Type R both of ) so its not surprising that the Si (and the Aspec 6MT) are dead for 2026 and MIGHT be coming back later.

Journalist who have driven the NEW Civic protoype say it drives like an "automatic SI"

You brought up euro cars that explicity have strict European emissions laws coming down on them (look at the parent by vw to have pre-heated cats to help with emissions). European cars also have moved away from manuals far faster than other brands. The SI also isn't slower when actually driving, just from a dig. And no one who buys a SI is gonna get the same experience from the Type R, it's definitely not irrelevant when it's right in the middle in terms of performance (and I don't mean just 0-60 from a dig - worst way to measure how a car performs when it's a sports car). And what kind of auto journalist worth their salt thinks a hybrid drives like a turbo 4?

My point is everybody has moved on except the SI. The SI is basically trying to hold on to two things that are disappering from every other Honda: the 1.5t and the 6MT. The 1.5t has largely been replaced by the Hybrid and the 6MT has been largely replaced by the e-CVT.
Journalist who have driven the NEW Civic protoype say it drives like an "automatic SI"

Im pretty sure the e-CVT is exclusive to hybrids, hence the 'e' part. Can't have electronic motors controlling the wheels when you don't have any reason to.

Anyway...
The point was made that Honda wouldn't make an SI with a CVT or none manual: They have and still basically do in other markets and Civic and Prelude are the examples. The Integra Aspec already comes with a 1.5t and CVT.

The 1.5T engine in varies across different car models, not the same for every one. Im not sure if the A spec has the same 1.5T as the SI, but you just showed my point, it's not an SI. What other current market do they have a non manual SI? The RS is not an SI.

As far as the Prelude being derivative. Yes, and So what? The Prelude, is still derivative. Prelude, CRV, HRV, ADX, Integra and Accord all share the same platform with the Civic today. Prelude was once Honda's technological showcase model, that role has been taken over by the CIvic and to some extent the Accord. The point I made was simple: If Honda would make the Prelude a hybrid only, e-cvt CIvic coupe dont be surprised if the next SI (and even the Type R) are hybrids too. The future is now, the current CIvic is in its final years of production and the car will have to evolve to meet emissions standards globally.

I brought up the prelude specifically because you said it was their flagship coupe and they made it a hybrid. What they did is exactly what you go on to state - they reused a platform. Also not all of the vehicles you mentioned shared the same platform at the same time or ever (Accord moved to the 1.5T after the civic was basically phasing it out for example). And according to Honda the prelude is still the tech showcase, as per all their marketing for the vehicle. Honda isn't going to develop a bespoke chassis/drivetrain for a buyer base smaller than the SI and Type R, the prelude isn't their halo car no matter how hard they try to make it that.

Also Honda has the best combined MPG rating of any auto manufacturer in the USA currently, they were very very conservative with how they approached the future market. They may push for more fuel efficiency, but they don't realistically have a need.

The SI doesn't sell well enough for Honda to care about "heritage" its a niche product that is low profit and parts bin special that has become irrelevant because Honda didnt invest in the SI in the same way VW, Hyundai and Subaru have invested in the SI's competition because Honda would rather sale a higher profit margin Type R (and Type S) than worry about selling a CIvic or Integra with a 1.5t engine that is being phased out in everything in the next few years when it is replaced with the 2.0 Hybrid that will go in the HRV, CRV, Accord, ADX and eventually the Integra.

Again, you make me point entirely, the civic SI is a parts been special with a manual. That is it's entire identity. It's like the 1m of Honda sports cars - thrown together but with intent. Honda has yet to mess with this heritage and change the car drastically since that's literally all the civic SI is. For God sakes the type R has stayed fwd for its whole life and it's had every opportunity to be a AWD car. I'd bet Honda just wouldn't have an SI until they figure out how to fulfill the ideology of those vehicle. Maybe they will be hybrid, but they'd be closer to a paddle shifted hybrid sports car than the prelude is to the hybrid civics.

Most importantly it's cheaper to keep around old stuff if it works - again, the type R basically being the same car underneath is a great example.

The Civic hybrid is not what I'd call the pedestrian Civic and the si pulls away in a quarter mile. I'd also guess that the si has beefier internals compared to the lesser civics hybrid included.

From what I understand it's already beefier from the normal 1.5T L15 (had a different set of letters after also afaik).

 

[BLU RRR]

Ive owned civic SIs back in the 80s and 90s and loved them. My last one was an 08 that wasnt fast but was a ton of fun to drive. I imagine the latest Si is the same not the fastest thing out there but fun to drive as a daily. It was disappointing to me that they never pushed it over 200 hp, 250 would have been nice but even so the car was a screaming deal at $31k.

What I couldnt understand is that at least in the mid atlantic, the car was rarely available. they would trickle in slower than the Type R and then dealers would ADM them all like they were Type Rs. I wanted to buy one for the last 5 years but I could rarely find a dealer with one and when I did, they always wanted $3-5k over MSRP. Im not paying that on an R, Im certainly not paying that or even MSRP on an SI. I dont undertand why it wasnt more widely available unless they wanted a reason to justify getting rid of it.

 

[pwp25si]

Its amazing how strongly people identify with metal boxes on wheels. These companies don't care about you as much.

 

[Saywhaat04]

Okay we'll exchange cookies then.

The Civic hybrid is not what I'd call the pedestrian Civic and the si pulls away in a quarter mile. I'd also guess that the si has beefier internals compared to the lesser civics hybrid included.

It also is faster then the other lesser Civic models in 0-60 minus the hybrid.

Goodnight sunshine

Pedestrian, mainstream, tomato tomahto. My point is a CIvic hybrid can be had at a lower MSRP, is generally faster, more fuel efficient, can be had with more equipment and probably sells at a 20:1 ratio against the SI.

The SI hasn't lived up to its "mission" since the 8th gen 2.0 SI was replaced with a 2.4L and then a 1.5t. One thing it has done though is stay at around 200hp when all of its competition has moved on and offered more for similar money.

It should be faster than lessers Civics because its an SI, the problem is until the 1.5t was dropped from the lesser Civics it really wasn't that much faster and now its outclassed, out accelerated and gets less MPG than the Hybrid variant that replaced the 1.5t that was already too close in performance to the Si in the first place. IF the SI had the Accord's 2.0t we wouldn't even be having the discussion about the SI's relevance in the Honda lineup because there would have been enough space between it, the Hybrid, the 1.5t in lessers Civics and the Type R to justify its existence. Its Honda's own fault for neuturing the SI.

Most of that was lost because of the EV segment being reeled back Honda continues to be a bestseller. But you're right about their decisions being questionable. The old executives could see it when they tried the cou recently.

Somehow Toyota had the foresight to see that the EV winds were not moving as fast as Honda and others anticipated. I travel for work and work in healthcare. I'm in airports, on major highways daily. The US does not and probably for the foreseeable future, will not have the infrastructure to accomodate EVs on a large and grand scale. If I know this, Honda had to know it as well. Toyota's approach to more hybrids and an eventual move over to EVs was the logical and smart choice for the US. Honda nearly gave up its flagship sedan-the Accord (and its flagship auto plant in Marysville, OH) to build EVs that were not competitive. None of this makes any sense. Accord and Integra sales were in the tank for the last two years because Honda was trying to transition Marysville over to an EV hub that almost bankrupted the damn company.

Its not just the EV debacle that frustrates me about Honda. Its the neuturing of the Accord, its the stagnation of feature content for all of the mainstream models-CIvic, CR-V, Accord all lack features that the competition has been offering for generations because Honda wont invest in Acura so that it doesnt compete with other Honda and actually competes with Lexus, MB, Genesis, BMW and Audi, its the high pricing, its the lack of vision for Acura-RDX, TLX are all dead, never offering a Type S RDX, the Integra and ADX being too closely aligned with the CIvic and HRV (especially the interiors and engines) Its the lack of hybrids in Acuras when Honda offers them in cars like the CIvic and CRV. Odyssey is as old as the 10th generation Accord, still offers no hbyrd and wont get a full redesign until 2030. Ridgeline is going on a hiatus, Accord is getting a HUGE refresh next year because the Camry has continued to clobber the Accord and to outsell it 2 to 1 (last year it was nearly 3-1 in sales)Honda is also beginning to sale to fleets. I routinely use National Rental/Enterprise and I see Accord SEs, Civic Sports, CRV EXs and Odysseys at airports far more frequently then I ever did in the past 10 years.

Folks talk shit about Nissan. Honda is the brand that's really in trouble. Look at sales in Europe, look at sales in China? Austrialla? Honda's main market is the US and they are somehow finding ways to muck that up too.

I think that's pretty bold or an assumption given Honda said they're waiting till the turn of the decade for most of their models. Plus the civic had a facelift last year. Still 2028 is a whole away, and that's money on the table by not making the SI or A spec when Acura still uses the engine.

Key terms are "most of their models" DId you ever hear Honda say the CR-V or Civic were delayed? We are almost thru 2026. The Turn of the decade its right around the corner. Civcis have always lasted 5-7 years for each generation (it used to be 4 years back in the day) I do believe the 2027 model will be the same as the current gen but it will be a short model year. Just this past Nov, the new CIvic prototype was driven by journalist.

Car and Driver: From Nov of 2025

It also sounds good. Instead of hearing a strained powertrain or synthetic engine noise, the prototype model we drove had a low growl that sounded more Civic Si than Civic LX. That said, there's no guarantee that the exhaust system from our prototype model makes it to production.

Honda says the new hybrid system should debut in the second half of 2026, but arrival in the United States may be pushed out to early 2027. It's also possible that the first time we see this system won't be in the Civic, but in the Accord, which should be getting refreshed in the near future. In either case, we shouldn't have to wait too much longer before we learn more about Honda's future hybrid plans.

Motortrend:

The hybrid system in the present Honda Civic is already pretty sweet, but Honda isn't resting. The Japanese automaker is working on a new midsize platform for the Civic, CR-V, Accord, Prelude, and others as well as a fifth-generation hybrid system with a new engine. It all begins rolling out in 2027.

Honda can afford to delay an Accord full redesign (the facelift that's coming will be a huge one, almost like a full redesign according to Honda's own execs) and they can delay Odyssey, Ridgeline and lesser model redesigns but the CRV and the Civic are the cashcows for Honda. Civic and CR-V are still on track for full redesigns for MYs 2028 and MYs 2029 from my understanding. All the information about delays never mentions either of those models.

You brought up euro cars that explicity have strict European emissions laws coming down on them (look at the parent by vw to have pre-heated cats to help with emissions). European cars also have moved away from manuals far faster than other brands. The SI also isn't slower when actually driving, just from a dig. And no one who buys a SI is gonna get the same experience from the Type R, it's definitely not irrelevant when it's right in the middle in terms of performance (and I don't mean just 0-60 from a dig - worst way to measure how a car performs when it's a sports car). And what kind of auto journalist worth their salt thinks a hybrid drives like a turbo 4?

People who have driven the next generation CIvic hybrid. Have you driven it? I'll take their professional opinions over yours.

I brought up the Civic in general because the car is global and has to meet emissions standards everywhere it will be sold. It also has to meet emissions standards in this country and according to Honda themselves, the current 1.5t/6MT combo cannot meet those emission standards and therefore its being put on "hold" until Honda can figure out what to do with the model to help it meet the standards. Its really not that difficult to comprehend.

Im pretty sure the e-CVT is exclusive to hybrids, hence the 'e' part. Can't have electronic motors controlling the wheels when you don't have any reason to.

Again you are missing my point. I know the SI can't have an e-CVT currently because it uses the 1.5t/6mT that is dead for 2026. My point is simple: the 1.5t (with CVT or 6MT) used to be the uplevel CIvic in gens 10 and early Gen 11s. It has been replaced by the 2.0 Hybrid with an E-CVT. Every Civic trim level above the 2.0 base engine in the current CIvic lineup is a hybrid, except the SI (which dead for 2026) and the Type R, which is probably gonna go hybrid after 2030. How do I know that:

Per Motortrend Nov 2025:

The new compact engine is expected to also use the Atkinson cycle and be comparable to the current 2.0-liter I-4 in terms of specs, but it's designed to be quieter and more efficient to contribute to the greater driving range. It has an integrated cooling system for rapid combustion for better output. This is not a turbocharged engine—turbos will be gone by 2030 for emissions reasons, an engineer told us. The new four-cylinder hybrid system will still lead the competition, he thinks.

The 1.5T engine in varies across different car models, not the same for every one. Im not sure if the A spec has the same 1.5T as the SI, but you just showed my point, it's not an SI. What other current market do they have a non manual SI? The RS is not an SI.

I'm aware that the 1.5t (just like the 2.0t) comes in various iterations. The RS is the cloest thing to the SI that is offered. And that's kind of the point. The 1.5t for the "pedestrian" Civic has been replaced by the 2.0 Hybrid, the 1.5t with the SI's tune is pretty much only sold in the US and its going away for 2026. What incentive does Honda have to keep it around, when its not used in any other markets (outside of the Integra 6MT) and both are dead for 2026 because of emissions standards.

I brought up the prelude specifically because you said it was their flagship coupe and they made it a hybrid. What they did is exactly what you go on to state - they reused a platform. Also not all of the vehicles you mentioned shared the same platform at the same time or ever (Accord moved to the 1.5T after the civic was basically phasing it out for example). And according to Honda the prelude is still the tech showcase, as per all their marketing for the vehicle. Honda isn't going to develop a bespoke chassis/drivetrain for a buyer base smaller than the SI and Type R, the prelude isn't their halo car no matter how hard they try to make it that.

Currenty the Civic platform is the basis for the Accord, CRV, HRV, Integra, ADX and Prelude. Next year the CIvic moves to a new platform and the next generation of vehicles will mover to that platform by 2030.

They have always reused a platform for the Prelude. The only new tech the Prelude got over the CIvic and Accord is the "S+ shift mode" that the Accords and CIvics will eventually get. Otherwise it has the same basic interior as the CIvic, Accord, CRV, Integra, ADX, HRV and will be outclassed and irrelevant next year when the CIvic gets a new platform and a new version of the 2.0 Hybrid system. The Accord got the 1.5t in 2017, a year or two after the Civic got it in 2015 and the Civic kept the 1.5t in some form in the mainstream Civics all the way until 2025, when the Hybrid 2.0 replaced the 1.5t in the CIvic. The Accord, will keep the 1.5t until it is redesigned fully in 2030, CRV will likely lose the 1.5t when it gets redesigned in about a year or two and goes on to compete with the Rav4 which is hybrid only. The next generations of the Sportage and Tucson (which debuts in about a month or two) are supposedly going full hybrid as well.

Also Honda has the best combined MPG rating of any auto manufacturer in the USA currently, they were very very conservative with how they approached the future market. They may push for more fuel efficiency, but they don't realistically have a need.

This is irrelevant. MPGs are one thing, emissions are another. Why is Honda "pausing" the SI and 6MT Integra again? Because of emissions.

Again, you make me point entirely, the civic SI is a parts been special with a manual. That is it's entire identity. It's like the 1m of Honda sports cars - thrown together but with intent. Honda has yet to mess with this heritage and change the car drastically since that's literally all the civic SI is. For God sakes the type R has stayed fwd for its whole life and it's had every opportunity to be a AWD car. I'd bet Honda just wouldn't have an SI until they figure out how to fulfill the ideology of those vehicle. Maybe they will be hybrid, but they'd be closer to a paddle shifted hybrid sports car than the prelude is to the hybrid civics.

Yeah but it never really was a parts bin special until the 9th and 10th generations. That's the point. Honda did mess with the heritage of the SI. People were mad as hell when the 2.0 from the 8th gen was replaced by the 2.4 and later the 1.5t in later generations of the CIvic.

Most importantly it's cheaper to keep around old stuff if it works - again, the type R basically being the same car underneath is a great example.

Can't keep around old stuff that cant meet standard, evolving emissions. That's why the SI/Integra 6MT are gone for 2027

Ive owned civic SIs back in the 80s and 90s and loved them. My last one was an 08 that wasnt fast but was a ton of fun to drive. I imagine the latest Si is the same not the fastest thing out there but fun to drive as a daily. It was disappointing to me that they never pushed it over 200 hp, 250 would have been nice but even so the car was a screaming deal at $31k.

What I couldnt understand is that at least in the mid atlantic, the car was rarely available. they would trickle in slower than the Type R and then dealers would ADM them all like they were Type Rs. I wanted to buy one for the last 5 years but I could rarely find a dealer with one and when I did, they always wanted $3-5k over MSRP. Im not paying that on an R, Im certainly not paying that or even MSRP on an SI. I dont undertand why it wasnt more widely available unless they wanted a reason to justify getting rid of it.

I agree with everything you said, but the highlighted part is where I agree the most. Si deserved more power. It was a great value in a vacuum and its still a decent, fun car. Lots of folks like you (and me) moved on to other cars that offered more or ended up in completely different cars all togehter.

Its amazing how strongly people identify with metal boxes on wheels. These companies don't care about you as much.

Listen, we are passionate about our cars. I remember being upset when Honda discontinued the cIvic coupes, Accord coupes, the manual in the Accord (I owned a 2.0t Accord 6MT) and I get it. Honda is a business at the end of the day so it is what it is.

 

[Websitesdown]

Pedestrian, mainstream, tomato tomahto. My point is a CIvic hybrid can be had at a lower MSRP, is generally faster, more fuel efficient, can be had with more equipment and probably sells at a 20:1 ratio against the SI.

The SI hasn't lived up to its "mission" since the 8th gen 2.0 SI was replaced with a 2.4L and then a 1.5t. One thing it has done though is stay at around 200hp when all of its competition has moved on and offered more for similar money.

It should be faster than lessers Civics because its an SI, the problem is until the 1.5t was dropped from the lesser Civics it really wasn't that much faster and now its outclassed, out accelerated and gets less MPG than the Hybrid variant that replaced the 1.5t that was already too close in performance to the Si in the first place. IF the SI had the Accord's 2.0t we wouldn't even be having the discussion about the SI's relevance in the Honda lineup because there would have been enough space between it, the Hybrid, the 1.5t in lessers Civics and the Type R to justify its existence. Its Honda's own fault for neuturing the SI.




Somehow Toyota had the foresight to see that the EV winds were not moving as fast as Honda and others anticipated. I travel for work and work in healthcare. I'm in airports, on major highways daily. The US does not and probably for the foreseeable future, will not have the infrastructure to accomodate EVs on a large and grand scale. If I know this, Honda had to know it as well. Toyota's approach to more hybrids and an eventual move over to EVs was the logical and smart choice for the US. Honda nearly gave up its flagship sedan-the Accord (and its flagship auto plant in Marysville, OH) to build EVs that were not competitive. None of this makes any sense. Accord and Integra sales were in the tank for the last two years because Honda was trying to transition Marysville over to an EV hub that almost bankrupted the damn company.

Its not just the EV debacle that frustrates me about Honda. Its the neuturing of the Accord, its the stagnation of feature content for all of the mainstream models-CIvic, CR-V, Accord all lack features that the competition has been offering for generations because Honda wont invest in Acura so that it doesnt compete with other Honda and actually competes with Lexus, MB, Genesis, BMW and Audi, its the high pricing, its the lack of vision for Acura-RDX, TLX are all dead, never offering a Type S RDX, the Integra and ADX being too closely aligned with the CIvic and HRV (especially the interiors and engines) Its the lack of hybrids in Acuras when Honda offers them in cars like the CIvic and CRV. Odyssey is as old as the 10th generation Accord, still offers no hbyrd and wont get a full redesign until 2030. Ridgeline is going on a hiatus, Accord is getting a HUGE refresh next year because the Camry has continued to clobber the Accord and to outsell it 2 to 1 (last year it was nearly 3-1 in sales)Honda is also beginning to sale to fleets. I routinely use National Rental/Enterprise and I see Accord SEs, Civic Sports, CRV EXs and Odysseys at airports far more frequently then I ever did in the past 10 years.

Folks talk shit about Nissan. Honda is the brand that's really in trouble. Look at sales in Europe, look at sales in China? Austrialla? Honda's main market is the US and they are somehow finding ways to muck that up too.





Key terms are "most of their models" DId you ever hear Honda say the CR-V or Civic were delayed? We are almost thru 2026. The Turn of the decade its right around the corner. Civcis have always lasted 5-7 years for each generation (it used to be 4 years back in the day) I do believe the 2027 model will be the same as the current gen but it will be a short model year. Just this past Nov, the new CIvic prototype was driven by journalist.

Car and Driver: From Nov of 2025



Motortrend:


Honda can afford to delay an Accord full redesign (the facelift that's coming will be a huge one, almost like a full redesign according to Honda's own execs) and they can delay Odyssey, Ridgeline and lesser model redesigns but the CRV and the Civic are the cashcows for Honda. Civic and CR-V are still on track for full redesigns for MYs 2028 and MYs 2029 from my understanding. All the information about delays never mentions either of those models.



People who have driven the next generation CIvic hybrid. Have you driven it? I'll take their professional opinions over yours.

I brought up the Civic in general because the car is global and has to meet emissions standards everywhere it will be sold. It also has to meet emissions standards in this country and according to Honda themselves, the current 1.5t/6MT combo cannot meet those emission standards and therefore its being put on "hold" until Honda can figure out what to do with the model to help it meet the standards. Its really not that difficult to comprehend.



Again you are missing my point. I know the SI can't have an e-CVT currently because it uses the 1.5t/6mT that is dead for 2026. My point is simple: the 1.5t (with CVT or 6MT) used to be the uplevel CIvic in gens 10 and early Gen 11s. It has been replaced by the 2.0 Hybrid with an E-CVT. Every Civic trim level above the 2.0 base engine in the current CIvic lineup is a hybrid, except the SI (which dead for 2026) and the Type R, which is probably gonna go hybrid after 2030. How do I know that:

Per Motortrend Nov 2025:







I'm aware that the 1.5t (just like the 2.0t) comes in various iterations. The RS is the cloest thing to the SI that is offered. And that's kind of the point. The 1.5t for the "pedestrian" Civic has been replaced by the 2.0 Hybrid, the 1.5t with the SI's tune is pretty much only sold in the US and its going away for 2026. What incentive does Honda have to keep it around, when its not used in any other markets (outside of the Integra 6MT) and both are dead for 2026 because of emissions standards.



Currenty the Civic platform is the basis for the Accord, CRV, HRV, Integra, ADX and Prelude. Next year the CIvic moves to a new platform and the next generation of vehicles will mover to that platform by 2030.

They have always reused a platform for the Prelude. The only new tech the Prelude got over the CIvic and Accord is the "S+ shift mode" that the Accords and CIvics will eventually get. Otherwise it has the same basic interior as the CIvic, Accord, CRV, Integra, ADX, HRV and will be outclassed and irrelevant next year when the CIvic gets a new platform and a new version of the 2.0 Hybrid system. The Accord got the 1.5t in 2023, a year after the Civic got it in 2022 and the Civic kept the 1.5t in some form in the mainstream Civics all the way until 2025, when the Hybrid 2.0 replaced the 1.5t in the CIvic. The Accord, will keep the 1.5t until it is redesigned fully in 2030, CRV will likely lose the 1.5t when it gets redesigned in about a year or two and goes on to compete with the Rav4 which is hybrid only. The next generations of the Sportage and Tucson (which debuts in about a month or two) are supposedly going full hybrid as well.





This is irrelevant. MPGs are one thing, emissions are another. Why is Honda "pausing" the SI and 6MT Integra again? Because of emissions.




Yeah but it never really was a parts bin special until the 9th and 10th generations. That's the point. Honda did mess with the heritage of the SI. People were mad as hell when the 2.0 from the 8th gen was replaced by the 2.4 and later the 1.5t in later generations of the CIvic.



Can't keep around old stuff that cant meet standard, evolving emissions. That's why the SI/Integra 6MT are gone for 2027





I agree with everything you said, but the highlighted part is where I agree the most. Si deserved more power. It was a great value in a vacuum and its still a decent, fun car. Lots of folks like you (and me) moved on to other cars that offered more or ended up in completely different cars all togehter.




Listen, we are passionate about our cars. I remember being upset when Honda discontinued the cIvic coupes, Accord coupes, the manual in the Accord (I owned a 2.0t Accord 6MT) and I get it. Honda is a business at the end of the day so it is what it is.

My 10th Gen si.

You arguments about the engine being garbage, is garbage.

 

[Saywhaat04]

My 10th Gen si.

You arguments about the engine being garbage, is garbage.

When did I ever call the engine "Garbage?"

 

[Websitesdown]

When did I ever call the engine "Garbage?"

Don't talk crap about my si engine!

I'm done.

 

[Cueyo]

Pedestrian, mainstream, tomato tomahto. My point is a CIvic hybrid can be had at a lower MSRP, is generally faster, more fuel efficient, can be had with more equipment and probably sells at a 20:1 ratio against the SI.

The SI hasn't lived up to its "mission" since the 8th gen 2.0 SI was replaced with a 2.4L and then a 1.5t. One thing it has done though is stay at around 200hp when all of its competition has moved on and offered more for similar money.

It should be faster than lessers Civics because its an SI, the problem is until the 1.5t was dropped from the lesser Civics it really wasn't that much faster and now its outclassed, out accelerated and gets less MPG than the Hybrid variant that replaced the 1.5t that was already too close in performance to the Si in the first place. IF the SI had the Accord's 2.0t we wouldn't even be having the discussion about the SI's relevance in the Honda lineup because there would have been enough space between it, the Hybrid, the 1.5t in lessers Civics and the Type R to justify its existence. Its Honda's own fault for neuturing the SI.




Somehow Toyota had the foresight to see that the EV winds were not moving as fast as Honda and others anticipated. I travel for work and work in healthcare. I'm in airports, on major highways daily. The US does not and probably for the foreseeable future, will not have the infrastructure to accomodate EVs on a large and grand scale. If I know this, Honda had to know it as well. Toyota's approach to more hybrids and an eventual move over to EVs was the logical and smart choice for the US. Honda nearly gave up its flagship sedan-the Accord (and its flagship auto plant in Marysville, OH) to build EVs that were not competitive. None of this makes any sense. Accord and Integra sales were in the tank for the last two years because Honda was trying to transition Marysville over to an EV hub that almost bankrupted the damn company.

Its not just the EV debacle that frustrates me about Honda. Its the neuturing of the Accord, its the stagnation of feature content for all of the mainstream models-CIvic, CR-V, Accord all lack features that the competition has been offering for generations because Honda wont invest in Acura so that it doesnt compete with other Honda and actually competes with Lexus, MB, Genesis, BMW and Audi, its the high pricing, its the lack of vision for Acura-RDX, TLX are all dead, never offering a Type S RDX, the Integra and ADX being too closely aligned with the CIvic and HRV (especially the interiors and engines) Its the lack of hybrids in Acuras when Honda offers them in cars like the CIvic and CRV. Odyssey is as old as the 10th generation Accord, still offers no hbyrd and wont get a full redesign until 2030. Ridgeline is going on a hiatus, Accord is getting a HUGE refresh next year because the Camry has continued to clobber the Accord and to outsell it 2 to 1 (last year it was nearly 3-1 in sales)Honda is also beginning to sale to fleets. I routinely use National Rental/Enterprise and I see Accord SEs, Civic Sports, CRV EXs and Odysseys at airports far more frequently then I ever did in the past 10 years.

Folks talk shit about Nissan. Honda is the brand that's really in trouble. Look at sales in Europe, look at sales in China? Austrialla? Honda's main market is the US and they are somehow finding ways to muck that up too.





Key terms are "most of their models" DId you ever hear Honda say the CR-V or Civic were delayed? We are almost thru 2026. The Turn of the decade its right around the corner. Civcis have always lasted 5-7 years for each generation (it used to be 4 years back in the day) I do believe the 2027 model will be the same as the current gen but it will be a short model year. Just this past Nov, the new CIvic prototype was driven by journalist.

Car and Driver: From Nov of 2025



Motortrend:


Honda can afford to delay an Accord full redesign (the facelift that's coming will be a huge one, almost like a full redesign according to Honda's own execs) and they can delay Odyssey, Ridgeline and lesser model redesigns but the CRV and the Civic are the cashcows for Honda. Civic and CR-V are still on track for full redesigns for MYs 2028 and MYs 2029 from my understanding. All the information about delays never mentions either of those models.



People who have driven the next generation CIvic hybrid. Have you driven it? I'll take their professional opinions over yours.

I brought up the Civic in general because the car is global and has to meet emissions standards everywhere it will be sold. It also has to meet emissions standards in this country and according to Honda themselves, the current 1.5t/6MT combo cannot meet those emission standards and therefore its being put on "hold" until Honda can figure out what to do with the model to help it meet the standards. Its really not that difficult to comprehend.



Again you are missing my point. I know the SI can't have an e-CVT currently because it uses the 1.5t/6mT that is dead for 2026. My point is simple: the 1.5t (with CVT or 6MT) used to be the uplevel CIvic in gens 10 and early Gen 11s. It has been replaced by the 2.0 Hybrid with an E-CVT. Every Civic trim level above the 2.0 base engine in the current CIvic lineup is a hybrid, except the SI (which dead for 2026) and the Type R, which is probably gonna go hybrid after 2030. How do I know that:

Per Motortrend Nov 2025:







I'm aware that the 1.5t (just like the 2.0t) comes in various iterations. The RS is the cloest thing to the SI that is offered. And that's kind of the point. The 1.5t for the "pedestrian" Civic has been replaced by the 2.0 Hybrid, the 1.5t with the SI's tune is pretty much only sold in the US and its going away for 2026. What incentive does Honda have to keep it around, when its not used in any other markets (outside of the Integra 6MT) and both are dead for 2026 because of emissions standards.



Currenty the Civic platform is the basis for the Accord, CRV, HRV, Integra, ADX and Prelude. Next year the CIvic moves to a new platform and the next generation of vehicles will mover to that platform by 2030.

They have always reused a platform for the Prelude. The only new tech the Prelude got over the CIvic and Accord is the "S+ shift mode" that the Accords and CIvics will eventually get. Otherwise it has the same basic interior as the CIvic, Accord, CRV, Integra, ADX, HRV and will be outclassed and irrelevant next year when the CIvic gets a new platform and a new version of the 2.0 Hybrid system. The Accord got the 1.5t in 2017, a year or two after the Civic got it in 2015 and the Civic kept the 1.5t in some form in the mainstream Civics all the way until 2025, when the Hybrid 2.0 replaced the 1.5t in the CIvic. The Accord, will keep the 1.5t until it is redesigned fully in 2030, CRV will likely lose the 1.5t when it gets redesigned in about a year or two and goes on to compete with the Rav4 which is hybrid only. The next generations of the Sportage and Tucson (which debuts in about a month or two) are supposedly going full hybrid as well.





This is irrelevant. MPGs are one thing, emissions are another. Why is Honda "pausing" the SI and 6MT Integra again? Because of emissions.




Yeah but it never really was a parts bin special until the 9th and 10th generations. That's the point. Honda did mess with the heritage of the SI. People were mad as hell when the 2.0 from the 8th gen was replaced by the 2.4 and later the 1.5t in later generations of the CIvic.



Can't keep around old stuff that cant meet standard, evolving emissions. That's why the SI/Integra 6MT are gone for 2027





I agree with everything you said, but the highlighted part is where I agree the most. Si deserved more power. It was a great value in a vacuum and its still a decent, fun car. Lots of folks like you (and me) moved on to other cars that offered more or ended up in completely different cars all togehter.




Listen, we are passionate about our cars. I remember being upset when Honda discontinued the cIvic coupes, Accord coupes, the manual in the Accord (I owned a 2.0t Accord 6MT) and I get it. Honda is a business at the end of the day so it is what it is.

I read this in the morning and was gonna respond with "too long didn't read" lol.

After reading it though, I actually agree with literally everything you said. I think Honda has this amazing engineering team that they either have culled down to nothing or continue to under-utilize. Someone else said it here on the forum before, but Honda used to be run by engineers, now they're running by business men. If you and I could see the EV plans not panning out, Honda had no reason to even try them. Sure the Chinese market exists, but since when did US buyers actively seek out EVs. I can only hope that the current CEO has a cou attempted on him again and honda finds it's way.

I still disagree that the next SI will be an automatic because it flies in the face of the precedent Honda has set in the past, but you're right to have your doubts and honestly I'm on the fence about it too.

 

[Cueyo]

My 10th Gen si.

You arguments about the engine being garbage, is garbage.

This reminds me of my brief time on Facebook when people respond with pictures of their cars as disses lol

 

[Websitesdown]

This reminds me of my brief time on Facebook when people respond with pictures of their cars as disses lol

I figured that if anything proves how strong those engines can be, that's it. Then I was joking with him at the end. I agree with his opinion like you stated above about everything else honestly.

 

[Cueyo]

I figured that if anything proves how strong those engines can be, that's it. Then I was joking with him at the end. I agree with his opinion like you stated above about everything else honestly.

Haha yeah, Honda's the world's biggest engine manufacturer for a reason

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