Trade 718 GT4 for FL5? (There is a reason for the madness...)

[JCZ5]

For those who already have your FL5s, you guys are lucky boys / girls! I have been living vicariously through you all and consuming all the FL5 content on Youtube.

So this may be an alarming title, but there is a method to the madness...bear with me

Context:

• Thinking of offloading the GT4 to have a better "daily" / all weather fun car - also for my long roadtrips, added comfort, winter etc
• Will still have a Porsche remaining
• Also helps with the practicality side, especially thinking of having kids soon-ish
• Other "daily" is X5, but you guys know it is boring
• *When I say "daily", it is not really a daily in the true sense. I live in the city and only drive on weekends

What drew me to the GT4, despite the handling, style, etc was the fantastic shifter. By moving to a FL5, I believe I will still retain that great shifter feel with the added practicality. And the seats will remind me of the LWBS in the GT4.

So based on my use case, I'm I crazy? But more so, it shows how this generation of Type R is really appealing across the enthusiast spectrum. I use to have a hot hatch back in my college days, Mazdaspeed 3. There is something about JDM and hot hatches for sure!

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[ThanksGTA]

Sell the other Porsche and keep the GT4

 

[JCZ5]

Sell the other Porsche and keep the GT4

I dont know about that, the other one is a GT3...

 

[chopsuey34]

I dont know about that, the other one is a GT3...

What a flex, bro. Keep the 2 Porsches, buy the Type R, and keep it in the driveway.

 

[optronix]

I dont know about that, the other one is a GT3...

The FL5/DE5 is interesting because it is kind of in uncharted territory. It's supposed to be an "everyman's" sports car, but is priced out of most average enthusiasts' price range. Where it gets interesting though, is that as a sports car, it's actually a great value and objectively can hold its own as a driver's car in a conversation with literal supercars. The GT4 or even the GT3 is no exception.

By no means am I trying to say that the FL5 is "as good as" these cars, but it pushes the same buttons. It is a riot to drive on the street, and is capable and reliable in a track setting. That, to many, is all they need, and it checks those boxes at $50k; 1/3 to 1/5 of the price of the cars in your garage.

I gotta be honest, and I'll say what many are thinking- you're truly privileged to have not one, but two Porsche GT cars in your garage. Especially for someone who only drives on the weekends, as you say. That's a lot of scratch to occupy space in your garage 70% of the time...

You didn't specify what GT3 you have, but if it's a 992 then you're even more blessed. Very few folks on here can relate. So I'm not sure how much of an echo chamber you were expecting to run into here, but I think most people who are going to offer a reply would be pretty happy to have either of your two GT products as an augmentation to an FL5. I personally don't think you'll miss the GT4 at all, but I only "downgraded" from a measly 718 GTS 4.0.

 

[tingli107]

I think you need to lower your expectations. The shifter is not as good as a GT4/GT3 and many reviewers have pointed that out while the remaining reviewers will have you believing its one of the best shifters in the world. Type R is a great car for 45k, but it will never feel as analog, connected, or sound as good as your GT4/GT3.

I am also considering a FL5 for similar reasons that I want to be able to haul my entire family and still enjoy driving a manual, but after test driving an FK8 I was left pretty disappointed. I am still considering a FL5 Type R but will not pay anything over MSRP for it.

 

[JCZ5]

What a flex, bro. Keep the 2 Porsches, buy the Type R, and keep it in the driveway.

No doubt not trying to flex, but I also recognize the privilege and the hard work it took me to get to this point. As much as I want to keep both, alas I have limits and space and money to think about.

The FL5/DE5 is interesting because it is kind of in uncharted territory. It's supposed to be an "everyman's" sports car, but is priced out of most average enthusiasts' price range. Where it gets interesting though, is that as a sports car, it's actually a great value and objectively can hold its own as a driver's car in a conversation with literal supercars. The GT4 or even the GT3 is no exception.

By no means am I trying to say that the FL5 is "as good as" these cars, but it pushes the same buttons. It is a riot to drive on the street, and is capable and reliable in a track setting. That, to many, is all they need, and it checks those boxes at $50k; 1/3 to 1/5 of the price of the cars in your garage.

I gotta be honest, and I'll say what many are thinking- you're truly privileged to have not one, but two Porsche GT cars in your garage. Especially for someone who only drives on the weekends, as you say. That's a lot of scratch to occupy space in your garage 70% of the time...

You didn't specify what GT3 you have, but if it's a 992 then you're even more blessed. Very few folks on here can relate. So I'm not sure how much of an echo chamber you were expecting to run into here, but I think most people who are going to offer a reply would be pretty happy to have either of your two GT products as an augmentation to an FL5. I personally don't think you'll miss the GT4 at all, but I only "downgraded" from a measly 718 GTS 4.0.

I really appreciate this thoughtful response. At the end of the day, I dont care if someone drives a base Corolla or Zonda, if they appreciate our hobby and are truly in it for the right reasons, all the merrier.

I do agree the price of the FL5 is incredibly high, I mentioned earlier when I had the Mazdaspeed 3, hot hatches were mid 20s to 30s. But guess we can't live in the past...

And you hit the nail on the head, it is not about a 1:1 comparison. Porsche sports cars and Honda sport sedans do fill their specific niches. It is about how one uses the vehicle rather than using one vehicle for every situation. Although, that is the draw of the FL5, being a great all-rounder as its defining purpose. Luckily for me, I am not focused on tracking the FL5, just a vehicle for the streets with a proper shifter.

I also think you were the right person to offer this perspective as you had a wonderful GTS 4.0. That is a fantastic car and arguably a much better road car than a GT4. But you did make the switch to a FL5. And I unequivocally disagree you "downgraded". It says something when we Porsche owners are lusting for a FL5.

...And to answer your GT3 question, yes, I am truly lucky . That is why the GT4 makes sense to leave.

 

[Clark_Kent]

A similar but different thread was started last year (see below). It may be of interest as you work through this. A couple of notes specific to your use case:

• The manual gearbox and shifter feel in the FL5 are fantastic; however, the GT4 is better. It's not just one thing either. If you were to view all characteristics (clutch pedal, rev-matching system, pedal box, shifter throws, weight of shifter, etc.) of the transmission and feel, the body of work in the Porsche represents a more fulsome driver experience.
• The LWBS are hard to beat in a production car and are on the ragged edge of comfortability. The way I view the FL5 seats in comparison is they are a very forgiving LWBS, if that makes sense. You don't have to perfect the execution of the "fall in, roll out" approach since they're not as heavily bolstered. The FL5 seats are very good in the context of a vehicle that is sub-$50K.
• I know many people use the FL5 to cart the kiddos around and the car is certainly capable; however, I'm on the tall(er) side (6'1"), as is my wife and we wouldn't be all that comfortable in the car with car seats. YMMV, but something to consider as you figure this all out.

Based on the language in your post, it seems you have yet to drive or even sit in the FL5. And while I'm impressed with the FL5, the hype surrounding this car could easily misalign expectations with reality. I strongly suggest getting a test drive and spending a little time with the car. You could likely get a test drive on a pre-owned FL5, especially at a non-Honda dealership. They likely won't know what the big deal is and may even just toss you the keys. I'm big on due diligence. Measure two, three, or four times and cut once, right?

https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/considering-trading-in-718-gts-4-0-for-ctr.51873/

 

[JCZ5]

@tingli107 - That is great feedback. I have not driven a FL5 so unable to weigh in on the shifter feel other than through reviewers and people like yourself. But good to know!

And in a way, I am aware of my expectations. I too agree that if I were to go to the FL5 route, I am unwilling to pay over MSRP. I am also aware that it will not feel as "connected, analogy, etc". But that is the whole point, it is not a GT4 replacement, but a family / daily driver addition that still feels exciting and engaging.

@Clark_Kent - Appreciate the link to the post from last year. You are right that I have not driven a FL5. I have sat in one as well as the Type S. I did contact my dealer to let me know when they start accepting test drives. But at this rate, I anticipate it will be awhile. But I will be on the lookout at non-Honda dealerships. There are still very few used out in the market and close to me.

Your bulleted perspective is also helpful and I agree. However, I think where I differ from other folks asking the question is what I mentioned above to Tingli107, I am fully aware that I am not looking to replace the GT4-like driving characteristics. But adding a daily with engagement potential. But to your point, I wont know unless I test drive and I never intend to buy without driving

Also I am short so kiddos in the back will be no problem

"I'm big on due diligence. Measure two, three, or four times and cut once, right?" - 100% agree and by folks on here sharing their perspective, it adds to my checklist of due diligence. From actual owners who live day in and out with these cars and soon-to-be owners who know far more than myself.

 

[optronix]

^Yeah that's my thread that's referenced for the very same 718 I referenced . I didn't end up in an FL5, but I did end up in a DE5. There are distinct differences, I won't try to talk you out of an FL5 if that's what you're set on but a DE5 works better for me personally (it didn't exist at this time last year...). FL5 will probably be better if you're a fan of the seats.

I do agree that hype can be overwhelming and expectations can be set to an unreasonable amount. Seems like that's actually a common thing in our society... so getting some actual seat time is definitely in your best interest.

But also I will double down with your assessment that "as a Porsche owner", this platform grabbed my attention. However, the DE5 exceeded my personal expectations. I have slightly different requirements in that I don't have kids per se (they have their own cars...) but I have a large furry son that I didn't feel comfortable trying to stuff in my Boxster. Having a car that basically does all the same things that isn't as ostentatious and I can fit my dog in is a godsend for me in my current situation (plus I picked the wrong transmission on my 718... ).

I miss some things about the 718 because it was an amazing car (I said "measly" as tongue-in-cheek...) , mostly the noise and the ability to put the roof down. But from a "fun to drive" perspective, I'm just as excited to grab the keys to my ITS as I ever was with any of my past Porsches.

 

[TW00Si]

What a nice problem to have. Just pointing out that you can only have 2 kids with the FL5. If you want/have a third, you need another car.

 

[ThanksGTA]

I dont know about that, the other one is a GT3...

Haha fair enough, keep the GT3. Awesome collection of cars. I will say this as an FL5 owner who also has an exotic and other higher end cars... the CTR is a fun car to drive, work on, etc... but I don't know if I'd trade down for one. GT4 is so much better in every way. Use the X5 for the future kids and road trips.

 

[Jester04]

No doubt not trying to flex, but I also recognize the privilege and the hard work it took me to get to this point. As much as I want to keep both, alas I have limits and space and money to think about.



I really appreciate this thoughtful response. At the end of the day, I dont care if someone drives a base Corolla or Zonda, if they appreciate our hobby and are truly in it for the right reasons, all the merrier.

I do agree the price of the FL5 is incredibly high, I mentioned earlier when I had the Mazdaspeed 3, hot hatches were mid 20s to 30s. But guess we can't live in the past...

And you hit the nail on the head, it is not about a 1:1 comparison. Porsche sports cars and Honda sport sedans do fill their specific niches. It is about how one uses the vehicle rather than using one vehicle for every situation. Although, that is the draw of the FL5, being a great all-rounder as its defining purpose. Luckily for me, I am not focused on tracking the FL5, just a vehicle for the streets with a proper shifter.

I also think you were the right person to offer this perspective as you had a wonderful GTS 4.0. That is a fantastic car and arguably a much better road car than a GT4. But you did make the switch to a FL5. And I unequivocally disagree you "downgraded". It says something when we Porsche owners are lusting for a FL5.

...And to answer your GT3 question, yes, I am truly lucky . That is why the GT4 makes sense to leave.

One thing I will say, there is no wrong choice they don’t compete in the same category but all are fun cars. Just be prepared from going from amazing induction noise on the GT4 to a vacuum cleaner sound on the FL5.

The FL5 is a great daily, and I have gotten a lot of comments not here but in person about how crazy I was that I switched my M2 for a FL5. Surprisingly here everyone has been very supportive.

Don’t miss the higher end car, the Type R is a better daily and feels very special even though it’s not a crazy expensive car. Also congratulations on achieving all of this by working your butt off. People sometimes don’t take into consideration the sacrifices someone makes to get to their goals. So Kudos to you!

 

[Rhorn]

Imo no, don't get the GT4 as a daily driver or for the street. Its a waste and complete overkill. I actually want to eventually sell my GT350 and get a GT4 to use as a dedicated track car. Maybe its just me but Im not really a fan using these types of high performance cars for the street. It gets old fast. You aren't able to fully exploit the car without getting into serious trouble. With a GT4 you'll only having a frustrating experience driving the car on the street and it really won't feel that special.

I love my GT350 but Im just loving my CTR so much more. My Mustang just collects dust now because its only fun to drive on the street once in a blue moon. I've put on less than 500 miles last year because I just enjoyed the CTR so much more. It excels at driving on the street, and you don't feel stupid driving it around like you would in a high end sports car. I honestly have fallen in love with the philosophy behind hot hatches. The GT350 is not street friendly and unfortunately car's engine will fall apart when you drive it on the track, so its not like I can even use it as a dedicated track if I wanted too. So I have a high performance car thats relegated to the street but have another car that already fills that role and just does everything better than my Mustang except for having that V8 sound. I'd be willingly to give that up to have a dedicated track car (I thought about getting a Camaro ZL1 1LE, but I'd rather have something more lightweight)

The CTR + GT4 combo or even a GTS + CTR makes more sense to me than having a Cayman GTS + GT4 thats not going to see regular track use, but you do you. Its cool to have cool cars like a GT4 but from my own experience I realized that unless Im taking it to the track then I don't care. Complete waste of resources to just use it as a weekend cruiser when I already have another car that does the daily aspect better. I'd rather put that money towards something else but thats just me. Having 2 cars is already a headache for me at times. I learned that I'd rather have cars for separate roles.

 

[Fanatic]

I've seen several pre-owned GT4s for sale in my area for some reason.

2 seat, 2 doors does have its limitations, especially when you have multiple family members/children.

Try to keep the GT4 alongside the FL5 if you can.

Good luck with the decision.

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