Love the performance, hate the seats

[paint4splatter]

long time lurker, first time poster

I've been on the hunt for my next car for nearly a year at this point, and i have narrowed it down to a civic model (i would prefer the integra but its just out my price range) I've driven standard trans since i learned how to drive, and in borrowing my father's 2018 VW, its really confirmed it for me that i just cannot stand an automatic(at least a truly geared automatic, not sure about a CVT long term)
I've test driven a used 2023 2.0 NA civic sport and really liked the drive but i really do want the creature comforts (i use heated seats year round for example). is the 1.5T really that much less reliable (per YouTube and forum research, I've been deterred from deciding on this engine and getting myself a car sooner). is the Si a better deal? i have test driven a used 2023 Si and really loved the pickup and handling, much more so than the 2.0L NA civic... one major issue that i cannot get past is the seats. they're simply awful for someone with a large bum and low back issues. i understand *why* they are the way they are, but i just simply hate them.

is it better to just aim at a used sport touring with a 6MT per the comfort or should I tough it out with an Si for the performance?
if i decide on an Si, is it possible to swap out the stock seats with an OEM sport touring seat? maybe find someone who wants to swap.

Any mods i would intend to do would mainly just be air intake and maybe an exhaust down the line if i was to go with the Si. would these modes be doable in the Sport Touring

I've had friends advise me that i should just lease an Integra instead of searching for the 6MT Sport Touring or seat swapping an Si, simply because i would get all the little things i want and not need to do any additional work (and truthfully I'm obsessed with the styling. the car is gorgeous to me, and its a hatch which I love)

(or give it all up, and chop my driving enthusiast heart to pieces and get the Hybrid sport touring to make my life easier and less expensive in the long run)

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[EliasA]

is it better to just aim at a used sport touring with a 6MT per the comfort or should I tough it out with an Si for the performance?
if i decide on an Si, is it possible to swap out the stock seats with an OEM sport touring seat? maybe find someone who wants to swap.

I purchased a used sport touring with a 6MT in January. This car is fantastic and mechanically flawless as far as I can tell. Granted mine had just broken 15,000 miles when I bought it so not much could have happened to it. Dynamically great as well, would recommend. Of course they are hard to find where I'm at, but I don't know the NY market so I'll just wish you luck.

 

[ModJPB]

Yes, civic sport touring comes in manual and will have the regular civic seats in leather which are similar to the Integra seats except the Integra has adjustable lumbar support and programmable memory seats. I was able to swap the bottom seat cushion from an Accord into my sport touring for added butt and leg comfort, but no way to get the adjustable lumbar support from integra if you have lower back issues.

The 11th gen Si, turbo civic, and Integra all have the same 1.5t engine (only change is tuning, hpfp, ignition coils, and intake cam that drives the hpfp).

With a tune, a non-si civic 1.5t can have way more HP than a si/integra HP. The Integra 1.5t is only as fast as the non-si civic because it is heavier.

The issues that plagued the 10th gen 1.5t civic don't seem to have carried over to the 11th gen civic and Integra 1.5t (oil dilution, head gasket leak, weak rods).

I might get flak for this, but if you can't afford the car, then don't do a lease. After 3years when the lease is up you'll have no car and no money and you're limited to an amount of miles. It's better to wait for a holiday promo deal for a low interest apr loan. Last year I got a 1% apr loan through Honda financing on my CPO civic. After three years not only am I spending less money per month I'll have the option of selling or trading the car. I just taught my high school class about this and after 3 years the lease came out to be thousands of dollars more costly even with depreciation and higher mileage.

 

[Cueyo]

The 11th gen Si, turbo civic, and Integra all have the same 1.5t engine (only change is tuning, hpfp, ignition coils, and intake cam that drives the hpfp).

According to Honda that's enough to warrant a different engine code, I had to look it up to be sure, but it's surprising it's nothing bigger that defines the L15B7 from the L15CA

 

[paint4splatter]

With a tune, a non-si civic 1.5t can have way more HP than a si/integra HP. The Integra 1.5t is only as fast as the non-si civic because it is heavier.

The issues that plagued the 10th gen 1.5t civic don't seem to have carried over to the 11th gen civic and Integra 1.5t (oil dilution, head gasket leak, weak rods).

I might get flak for this, but if you can't afford the car, then don't do a lease. After 3years when the lease is up you'll have no car and no money and you're limited to an amount of miles. It's better to wait for a holiday promo deal for a low interest apr loan. Last year I got a 1% apr loan through Honda financing on my CPO civic. After three years not only am I spending less money per month I'll have the option of selling or trading the car. I just taught my high school class about this and after 3 years the lease came out to be thousands of dollars more costly even with depreciation and higher mileage.

didnt realize that a tune coud do that much for the speed and horsepower. i'm a drivng enthusiast, but more in the sense that the way a car drives and feels is important to me; I've have never done any real modifications to any vehicle other than when i"ve done brakes i've used better quality options.


The idea of leasing an integra was to finance to buy at the end of the lease. Since I know I enjoy the car as much as I did on a test drive, leasing provides a lower cost to get into the more expensive car, while the intention would be to keep it in the long run. I wouldn't be caring about going over the milage since I would be keeping the car at the end of the lease period.

 

[ModJPB]

didnt realize that a tune coud do that much for the speed and horsepower. i'm a drivng enthusiast, but more in the sense that the way a car drives and feels is important to me; I've have never done any real modifications to any vehicle other than when i"ve done brakes i've used better quality options.


The idea of leasing an integra was to finance to buy at the end of the lease. Since I know I enjoy the car as much as I did on a test drive, leasing provides a lower cost to get into the more expensive car, while the intention would be to keep it in the long run. I wouldn't be caring about going over the milage since I would be keeping the car at the end of the lease period.

Tunes on turbo cars yield a lot of power because the boost can be increased. Naturally aspirated get only a small bump.

Please research buyouts. Dealers will act like they are giving you a deal but you'll end up paying the normal pre-owned price. The only benefit of a buyout is avoiding fees for damage to the car and over mileage.

Example of what happens after 6years for an Integra. ($ are rounded)

Lease:

• $4K down
• $350/mo 3yr
• $28k buyout (loan on buyout $800/mo 3yrs incl. Interest and fees.)

Total = $45k​

Loan:

• $4k down
• $500/mo 6yr (incl. interest and fees)

Total = $40k​

Saved $5k!!!

A loan allows the ability to trade/sell the car at any point, if life circumstances change. Remember your insurance will be high for a new car to.

 

[TypeRD]

Tunes on turbo cars yield a lot of power because the boost can be increased. Naturally aspirated get only a small bump.

Please research buyouts. Dealers will act like they are giving you a deal but you'll end up paying the normal pre-owned price. The only benefit of a buyout is avoiding fees for damage to the car and over mileage.

Example of what happens after 6years for an Integra. ($ are rounded)

Lease:

• $4K down
• $350/mo 3yr
• $28k buyout (loan on buyout $800/mo 3yrs incl. Interest and fees.)

Total = $45k​

Loan:

• $4k down
• $500/mo 6yr (incl. interest and fees)

Total = $40k​

Saved $5k!!!

A loan allows the ability to trade/sell the car at any point, if life circumstances change. Remember your insurance will be high for a new car to.

In the past, I want to say that the dealerships would show (on a graph) approximately when the depreciation on the car and your monthly lease payments meet up. For most Hondas it was somewhere around 18-24 months as they don’t depreciate fast. It’s not difficult to roughly estimate this yourself. Anyway, definitely consider buying the car at that point, NOT at the end of the lease. Payments you continue to make after that point is basically money in the wind. Instead, you could be making payments to own the car…assuming you want to keep it.

 

[chopsuey34]

A money thread, my favorite!

1) read the thread I wrote (Wise or Unwise: Redux in my signature) for a fun time
2) if you don't have the attention span to read, utilize 24-hour test drives (CarMax) if you can, or go to the dealer and test drive the seat by sitting in it for 1 hour ("I have a bad back")
3) whatever you do, think hard and decide on 1 option. Don't trade in or trade up. That's how you lose a lot of money.


I can't comment on leases because I don't know the rates.

Edit: If the Integra is out of your price range, you can't afford it even with a lease. I wouldn't stretch.
Edit: If you love the 6MT hatch, get it. The delta between the Si and the hatch isn't that great on the street. Put on an RMM, wheels and tires, and you'll have similar fun to a stock Si. And you can always tune if you want.
Edit: don't seat swap an Si, that's just extra cash and a headache when you sell it.

Edit:
Any mods i would intend to do would mainly just be air intake and maybe an exhaust down the line if i was to go with the Si. would these modes be doable in the Sport Touring

Yes

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