2023 Civic Type R Sets New FWD Track Record at Nürburgring!

[keller]

Actually, the fl5 that set the record was not standard at all.

It's not even sold yet, and will only be sold in some european markets as a special edition "S Grade".


No A/C, no GPS module, no tonneau cover; no auto dimming interior mirror; no parking sensors, no electric adjustment or heating functions on mirrors etc...


https://www.drive.com.au/news/sneaky-tactic-behind-honda-civic-type-r-nurburgring-lap/

Yes. I guess I wrote that too early. Or maybe the press release just conveniently missed a small detail. Honda unfortunately has gone the VW and renault route to get that record back.

Back in November the Nurburgring was closed for a non-camo CW FL5. These private sessions are rare, but they are needed when going for a record because the main straight is closed in public sessions. They never posted a laptime. They returned 5 months later with a new submodel that beat the "1 of 30 Nurburgring pack" Megane by 0.6s. These changes for the S grade were the price to pay.

Yet this laptime is official, and both Renault and VW did it in the past and got away with it. Yes, this FL5 is pre-production, has H0 marked tires and haters are gonna hate. But no one can argue this FL5 is the fastest FWD around the ring.

In 2020 Honda designed the 1000-units LE for this specific mission. They were even factory fitted with Cup2s. They ended never trying.

 

[Tickle]

For what it is worth...

There is a "notary" who inspects the run as well as the vehicle before making it official. So differences there may be... It seems to be within the rules for achieving an official time.

https://www.nuerburgring.de/info/nuerburgring/records

 

[keller]

The FK8 was very likely configured in a very similar light-weighted fashion. It had a roll cage in it too (and rear seat removed?), if I recall correctly. It was certainly not a stock Touring car with AC, etc. I’d have to dig up info and videos to be sure. But, that’s why I say the Suzuka records are perhaps the most apples-to-apples comparison we’ll get. We know that Honda tested both cars at Suzuka under the best possible and controlled conditions. The result is that the FL5 is faster, despite not knowing all the details.

Weight savings were made to compensate for the roll cage, so it's supposedly not any lighter than a road car. The roll cage change things: it adds rigidity and it raises the center of mass. In a bumpy track like the Nurburgring, with many load transfers (which are made even worse with a higher cg) it's better to have more complicance from the suspension and chassis. The roll cage played against the fk8 in that instance.

 

[Clark_Kent]

What is the weight savings on the Type R S over a production vehicle? The FK8 LE shed ~50 lbs over the standard production FK8 but, I recall the items removed were material weight savers. Sounds like the items they pulled out of the FL5 for this record couldn't amount to more than 20 lbs or so. Anyone able to track this down?

 

[TypeRD]

The thing is, why was the roll cage even needed in the FK8? I would argue that the added rigidity gave it an advantage moreso than any very slight change in cg. The FL5 didn’t get this treatment, because it apparently doesn’t need it. Regardless, I’m just pointing out that the FK8 that won the record at Suzuka and the the N-ring was not a stock vehicle either. Still, as of today, the most apples-to-apples comparison available are the records at Suzuka, unless someone maybe takes an FK8 LE to the N-Ring. But it seems Honda already concluded that it’s not a worthwhile effort.

 

[randomFL5guy]

Weight savings were made to compensate for the roll cage, so it's supposedly not any lighter than a road car. The roll cage change things: it adds rigidity and it raises the center of mass. In a bumpy track like the Nurburgring, with many load transfers (which are made even worse with a higher cg) it's better to have more complicance from the suspension and chassis. The roll cage played against the fk8 in that instance.

I remember reading about the 2017 record. Honda claimed that they mounted the roll cage in the car with flexible mounts to prevent affecting chassis rigidity, and that they only added the roll cage for safety purposes.

 

[keller]

I remember reading about the 2017 record. Honda claimed that they mounted the roll cage in the car with flexible mounts to prevent affecting chassis rigidity, and that they only added the roll cage for safety purposes.

That's interesting. Yeah, the FL5 pilot was insane driving at the limit like that without a roll cage.

 

[keller]

unless someone maybe takes an FK8 LE to the N-Ring. But it seems Honda already concluded that it’s not a worthwhile effort

That was the plan, but the pandemic dragged on. They settled for Suzuka, where it beat the said Megane. But both these cars were not tuned for Suzuka or any other glass smooth race tracks, which requires higher rigidity and stiffer suspension. The FL5 is, that's why it's so much better in these conditions. In the end Honda never took the LE to the ring.

I don't understand why, but it seems like you feel threatened by the fk8. You shouldn't. You have an awesome Type R for yourself.

 

[UFO CTR]

hmm,
did Honda not test a standard (off the dealer lot) FL5 with Cup 2 tires?
or did they and the results were not favorable, and thus the need to shed weight?

now I suppose there is an embargo on the S-Grade Specs? super!

 

[TypeRD]

That was the plan, but the pandemic dragged on. They settled for Suzuka, where it beat the said Megane. But both these cars were not tuned for Suzuka or any other glass smooth race tracks, which requires higher rigidity and stiffer suspension. The FL5 is, that's why it's so much better in these conditions. In the end Honda never took the LE to the ring.

I don't understand why, but it seems like you feel threatened by the fk8. You shouldn't. You have an awesome Type R for yourself.

I don’t feel threatened at all. Both cars are truly amazing. I was only sensing some may be trying to diminish the FL5’s win. I knew there would be chatter about it, so I was perhaps on edge waiting for it to happen. LOL! The fact of the matter is the official records are done. They’re baked. We can only speculate “what if” scenarios with the info we have. So I see no point in trying to take anything away from anyone : Honda did XYZ to get the record with the FL5 or Honda did XYZ to get the record with the FK8. It’s completely pointless.

At the end of the day, in my honest opinion, the FL5 vs FK8 comparison (all else being equal) would boil down to the tracks they’re on. In some cases I think the FK8 would win, while in other cases the FL5 would win. I don’t think the FL5 is necessarily the superior vehicle across the board in all scenarios, but in these 2 specific cases (Suzuka last year and N-ring this year) it is. It’s almost like comparing Jordan to Lebron.

Both will definitely be future classics. I’d have an FK8 in my garage, but never felt the styling was meant for me. That’s a whole different story though. I still stare any time I see one.?

 

[UFO CTR]

well,
stunning boyz & girlz...

 

[captainscott60]

I actually was impressed until we learned the truth ! Not that it would have made any difference to me personally. Just wished Honda would have been up front!

 

[ElpacoSV]

well,
stunning boyz & girlz...

Interesting therories. Will they be confirmed ?

 

[keller]

well,
stunning boyz & girlz...

It's official, the FL5 is getting the same hate as the FK8 lol. Welcome to the club.

 

[julianobl]

It's official, the FL5 is getting the same hate as the FK8 lol. Welcome to the club.

i think they bring valid points on the video

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