All New 2023 Civic Type R Sets New Suzuka Circuit Lap Record! 🏁

[FelixFJ40]

“Worth” is extremely subjective. I’m getting the GR Corolla either way. Do I think that it will deliver a more engaging experience and handle better than the new Type R? - I don’t.

But time will tell.

The ONLY reason why GR Corolla has so much hype is because of the GR Yaris, which is a spectacular car. IMO, the GRY is the best and most engaging car that money can buy, period.

Having said that, the GRC is 400 lbs heavier. Sure, they gave it a slight power bump, but it’s still 400 lbs heavier.

BTW, I’m not shitting on either car. I have high hopes for both.

After those well-reasoned points against the GR Corolla, why is that car your choice?

Just curious....

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[007]

After those well-reasoned points against the GR Corolla, why is that car your choice?

Just curious....

What else is there?

Everything is either too heavy, boring, or an automatic. Both cars meet my criteria:

• Lightweight
• Manual trans
• Engaging (TBD)

It helps if the brand has a reputable motorsport program (Gazoo Racing or Honda Racing), but not a must.

Only time will tell which one drives better. Each can be great in its own way. I’m leaning towards CTR being more engaging, but that’s not to say the GRC won’t be as fun. Something about that 1.6L turbo ripping through the the gears at redline that excites me. AWD can be a blast when pushed to the limit. It will just sort out any mistakes and make you look like a hero, which has its appeal.

 

[Gold Magikarp]

New CTR will likely have as many deposits, if not more. GR Corolla is getting all the attention for now because the hype started 2 years ago when the GR Yaris came out in other parts of the world. But the GRC is roughly 400 lbs heavier than the GRY. If you’re expecting it to handle like a CTR, then you’re in for a disappointment.

Anyway, pros and cons to each drive. There’s no such thing as best. A lot of what folks complain about with FWD can be dialed out with a balanced chassis and a proper LSD. Enter the Type R.

If the new one remains around 3,000 lbs, then it’ll be incredibly lightweight compared to its rivals. So that’s its biggest advantage and no laughing matter. FWD has the least drivetrain loss and is easier to get to its handling limit. You just trail brake at corner entry, be patient in mid-corner, and unwind while feeding in power on exit. It also provides greater tactile feedback through the steering wheel.

AWD is heaviest of the three and has the most drivetrain loss. Its chassis is harder to balance in terms of front and rear weight distribution. It can dial out some of the heavier weight, but can never truly hide it. Physics.

RWD is arguably the most fun of the three, but also more difficult to master. Better overall load transfer vs FWD/AWD. And since it pushes (instead of pulling), it has more difficulty maneuvering in wet and snowy conditions.

I had a 2019 CTR and moved on to my current platform of a 2018 M3C and I couldn’t agree more with what you said about both car comparisons. So much so that I’m going to be getting back into a CTR in 11th Gen form myself

 

[Rhorn]

Unquestionably the car with less hp and less weight for me. And you don’t have to add AWD to gain a shit ton of weight - just ask BMW.

That’s one of the reasons why I gave up on recent ///M offerings. Too f’king heavy. They’ve become tanks.

I have no remorse switching from an M2C to the new Civic Type R (assuming it’s even remotely as capable as the last one). Money didn’t play a role in my decision-making, but fun factor - or lack thereof - did.

I know. I know. It’s unfathomable to some. How could anyone consider a transition from M2C to a CTR an upgrade?!

Well, I’ll tell you how. Despite being a much faster car, the M2C was a pig in the corners compared to a CTR, which is much lighter and more lively as a result. Steering in the M2C was too numb. The car was too refined, which isn’t a good thing in my world. Overall, CTR offers a more engrossing experience (once you get to know it), particularly on twisty roads where its weight and grip make it feel like a slot car; you really feel like a hero in it, even though you may or may not know what you're doing. I can only imagine this gap in feel and fun will widen with chassis improvements to the upcoming R.

Which is not to say the newer M3's or M2’s don't drive nicely, they do. It's just the CTR has this really unique way of putting a smile on your face that makes it special.

You can utilize fancy modern tech to hide and dial out excess weight (Nissan GTR comes to mind), but if you’re particular about the way a car drives and communicates, it will never feel quite right. Can’t cheat physics.

Similar reason why I want a CTR. I won't sell my GT350 but will definitely be seeking a CTR. Although my Scion tC is far from engaging it still has a manual transmission and weighs alot less than my GT350. I can really feel the difference in weight, my GT350 is a, big, intense, crazy car but sometimes its just too much. I honestly see the CTR as a complete upgrade to my Scion tC in everyway possible.

Really looking forward to having both so that I have the benefits of both worlds. I have a strong feeling I will like the CTR more since I won't have to stress about my engine blowing up or treating it like a queen

 

[ASIMO Assassin]

If I am being honest, I am after the Type-R mostly because it is has one of the best manual transmissions you can get. Won't be long before they don't exist, so I just want to get something to savor while the world changes over to EV.

It really came down to the Type-R, Porsche Cayman GTS 4.0, and Mach 1 for me. I can't really comment on the GRC, but it probably won't be anything to write home about.

The Ford has that delicious Tremec and no-lift-shift. However, I've owned enough Fords to know that I don't want to own another one, haha.

The Cayman probably has the sweetest shifter, but upfront price, maintenance costs, and overall practicality make the Type-R an easy choice.

I've also owned enough Honda's to know that I absolutely love how they are built. Kind of looking forward to getting into another one!

 

[007]

Honda manuals are definitely the Ferrari of manuals.

 

[iqbad]

Unquestionably the car with less hp and less weight for me. And you don’t have to add AWD to gain a shit ton of weight - just ask BMW.

That’s one of the reasons why I gave up on recent ///M offerings. Too f’king heavy. They’ve become tanks.

I have no remorse switching from an M2C to the new Civic Type R (assuming it’s even remotely as capable as the last one). Money didn’t play a role in my decision-making, but fun factor - or lack thereof - did.

I know. I know. It’s unfathomable to some. How could anyone consider a transition from M2C to a CTR an upgrade?!

Well, I’ll tell you how. Despite being a much faster car, the M2C was a pig in the corners compared to a CTR, which is much lighter and more lively as a result. Steering in the M2C was too numb. The car was too refined, which isn’t a good thing in my world. Overall, CTR offers a more engrossing experience (once you get to know it), particularly on twisty roads where its weight and grip make it feel like a slot car; you really feel like a hero in it, even though you may or may not know what you're doing. I can only imagine this gap in feel and fun will widen with chassis improvements to the upcoming R.

Which is not to say the newer M3's or M2’s don't drive nicely, they do. It's just the CTR has this really unique way of putting a smile on your face that makes it special.

You can utilize fancy modern tech to hide and dial out excess weight (Nissan GTR comes to mind), but if you’re particular about the way a car drives and communicates, it will never feel quite right. Can’t cheat physics.

I used to have a FK8,but I switched to an M2 (normal, not a comp) and I have to say that overall the M2 is a better car. The FK8 has some serious flaws that makes it really annoying:

1. FWD just limits acceleration grip in all everyday situations. The car never felt fast to me because in normal speeds (up to like 4:th gear) it just spins up it wheels! (Mine was tuned) The M2 with is RWD just hooks up and you can make quick accelerations from dead stops or to pass cars without loosing grip.

2. The engine is very laggy, if you are in 2:nd gear at like 3000rpm and floor the pedal, you don’t even get max boost until you run out of revs and have to shift, and then it starts all over again. This engine needs a DSG toget rid of all the lag.

3. The sound the engine makes is just bad, there is no joy in listening to it. On the m2 just hearing the engine rev match as you shift down is amazing!

Now the new CTR looks much better than the FK8 that is positive, and it comes with very wide tires stock, good for track! I am just hoping that they fixed at least the engine sound, this would make the car appeal more to me, but I don’t see myself swapping out an m2 for this right now at least.

 

[punkwrock]

I went from my 2018 FK8 to a 2020 BMW M340i with the new gen B58 engine. I absolutely loved my Type R but just as IQBad stated the FWD in the FK8 was useless in the first half of the gears(I was tuned as well). My M340 is a totally different beast in terms of power delivery but i must admit a Type-R is fun as hell. Personally one of the reasons i got away from the type r was i missed the luxury's of a sunroof, heated seats and a decent sound system. If the new Type-R would have a version with these features i would be much more interested. Currently waiting delivery of my 2022 Si (canadian version) which has a ton of features. Due to the inflation of everything i have decided to get back into Honda reliability and low maintenance cost compared to BMW and i am really looking forward to my new Si but will for sure keep tabs of the Type-R Features.

 

[SwiftTone]

I went from my 2018 FK8 to a 2020 BMW M340i with the new gen B58 engine. I absolutely loved my Type R but just as IQBad stated the FWD in the FK8 was useless in the first half of the gears(I was tuned as well). My M340 is a totally different beast in terms of power delivery but i must admit a Type-R is fun as hell. Personally one of the reasons i got away from the type r was i missed the luxury's of a sunroof, heated seats and a decent sound system. If the new Type-R would have a version with these features i would be much more interested. Currently waiting delivery of my 2022 Si (canadian version) which has a ton of features. Due to the inflation of everything i have decided to get back into Honda reliability and low maintenance cost compared to BMW and i am really looking forward to my new Si but will for sure keep tabs of the Type-R Features.

I am tall (long torso) and wish more cars came without sunroofs or at least have it as an option. Sunroofs decrease headroom by about 2 inches in general. Plus, I actually never use it and even prefer the sunroof shade closed.

 

[punkwrock]

I am tall (long torso) and wish more cars came without sunroofs or at least have it as an option. Sunroofs decrease headroom by about 2 inches in general. Plus, I actually never use it and even prefer the sunroof shade closed.

I agree the option of a sunroof and other features would be great. A touring trim on the Type-R would tickle my fancy but i can understand that not everyone would want that and i can't see Honda making a touring trim for this car.

 

[mbaapk]

I agree the option of a sunroof and other features would be great. A touring trim on the Type-R would tickle my fancy but i can understand that not everyone would want that and i can't see Honda making a touring trim for this car.

They wont do a sunroof due to loss of rigidity. Im pretty certain it will get bose though. Likely no hearing elements- really not what this car is for. Im up in minny and plan to garage it for most of the winter months.

 

[SwiftTone]

They wont do a sunroof due to loss of rigidity. Im pretty certain it will get bose though. Likely no hearing elements- really not what this car is for. Im up in minny and plan to garage it for most of the winter months.

Well the Civic is really for commuting and daily driving. I understand sunroof will decrease performance so I agree with that. But how much performance would heated seats really decrease? It probably adds no more than 5lbs to the overall weight!

 

[007]

Well the Civic is really for commuting and daily driving. I understand sunroof will decrease performance so I agree with that. But how much performance would heated seats really decrease? It probably adds no more than 5lbs to the overall weight!

More electronics = more things to go wrong.

I had a sunroof on prior cars and never again. Long term, things always break. If the seals don’t give out and it doesn’t develop a leak, then the motor and other moveable parts start to break down.

I personally don’t think any of these parts have a place on a performance focused car.

Once you start adding heated seats, heads up display, heated steering wheel, sunroof, power seats, leather trim/upholstery, high end sound systems with subs and extra speakers, cameras, safety systems, and other fancy-shmancy crap, you slowly turn into a BMW. And that’s not a complement because they’ve all gotten heavy af over the years for exactly this reason. New M3 starts a tad under 3,900 lbs and approaches 4,000 lbs loaded. That is insane.

CTR already removed the mechanical e-brake. I’m not fond of this, but I’ll give it a pass.

 

[007]

I used to have a FK8,but I switched to an M2 (normal, not a comp) and I have to say that overall the M2 is a better car. The FK8 has some serious flaws that makes it really annoying:

1. FWD just limits acceleration grip in all everyday situations. The car never felt fast to me because in normal speeds (up to like 4:th gear) it just spins up it wheels! (Mine was tuned) The M2 with is RWD just hooks up and you can make quick accelerations from dead stops or to pass cars without loosing grip.

2. The engine is very laggy, if you are in 2:nd gear at like 3000rpm and floor the pedal, you don’t even get max boost until you run out of revs and have to shift, and then it starts all over again. This engine needs a DSG toget rid of all the lag.

3. The sound the engine makes is just bad, there is no joy in listening to it. On the m2 just hearing the engine rev match as you shift down is amazing!

Now the new CTR looks much better than the FK8 that is positive, and it comes with very wide tires stock, good for track! I am just hoping that they fixed at least the engine sound, this would make the car appeal more to me, but I don’t see myself swapping out an m2 for this right now at least.

So basically we like/dislike these cars for very different reasons. Sounds like I love everything you hate about the R.

I love the fact that the CTR makes me work harder. Its limits are reached quickly, which is part of the appeal. I don’t even have to drive fast or wind it out in order to feel like I’m sprinting. In the M2C, I have to be doing triple digits, and looking at serious jail time to have fun. That’s exactly what I miss about cars: the feeling of driving slower cars fast.

The thing I can’t stand about M2’s is the power surge at low revs. There is this sudden “spike” in the powerband, which is when you hit that long, wide torque “plateau” (around 3000RPM). It’s like a “flat zone” range where power is constant as revs rise due to falling torque. That’s what I generally experience going to redline with the S55. In this “flat zone”, there’s a sensation that there’s little reward for continually revving out and you almost feel like short-shifting. Then again, the OG M2 experience is slightly different.

I can’t enjoy an M2 unless I drive it fast, very fast. Driving it slow just sucks. To me, it’s uneventful and far less engaging at lower speeds than the R. And let’s face it, 90% of all driving is done at lower speeds, but I suppose it depends where you live.

As for the sound, the OG M2 does sound good to me. Definitely better than the Type R and M2C, which both sound muted. Too much fake noise being pumped into the cabin anyway, but that’s the case with every performance car nowadays.

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