2023 Civic Type R Sets New FWD Track Record at Nürburgring!

[s2kdriver80]

I wonder if they would be able to get an even better time with the OEM accessory CF wing, since it improves the aero. It is still considered an OEM part and anyone can option this accessory, so I don't imagine it would be a violation of the rules.

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[TypeRD]

I wonder if they would be able to get an even better time with the OEM accessory CF wing, since it improves the aero. It is still considered an OEM part and anyone can option this accessory, so I don't imagine it would be a violation of the rules.

I’m not so certain they didn’t use the CF wing. It’s really hard to tell in the promo vid. What’s most surprising to me is that they didn’t use the forged wheels. That’d be an easy weight savings and provide even sharper handling, right off the bat. My guess is that Honda was trying to keep the car as stock as possible (hence the reason for not even installing a roll cage).

 

[rui]

I’m not so certain they didn’t use the CF wing. It’s really hard to tell in the promo vid. What’s most surprising to me is that they didn’t use the forged wheels. That’d be an easy weight savings and provide even sharper handling, right off the bat. My guess is that Honda was trying to keep the car as stock as possible (hence the reason for not even installing a roll cage).

The video does show the stock wing, not the optional CF one. They look different enough to be distinguishable.

I don‘t know why, as it would be an easy and justifiable improvement to make.

 

[1971Camaro]

The video does show the stock wing, not the optional CF one. They look different enough to be distinguishable.

I don‘t know why, as it would be an easy and justifiable improvement to make.

Probably because they wanted the images to appear the same as the consumer car for publicity purposes.

 

[Tkmwong80]

I'm guessing here, and it's probably all wrong, but:

I think for months, the FL5 have come close to beating the Ring record for FWD, but were unsucessful in clocking better than the Megan Trophy R. However, I do believe the standard FL5 were able to beat the FK8's time, but why would Honda announce beating the FK8, but not beating the record. It would just signal they've (Honda) have failed the overall mission/objective in recapturing the Ring record for FWD car. Now, it's back to the drawing board for Honda, so they've "pushed" back to Spring.

Meanwhile, Honda continues to test and develop to find ways to better the track time. Now, if you guys read thru a couple of my previous post, y'all should get the tone that I'm calling BULLSHIT on just loosing a few pound and vralaa, Ring time falls? if the alterations did include wheels, than I'd probably believe it, but negative, no forged wheels mentioned. If that was just loosing a few pounds, did Honda really need to wait till Spring? Prolly not?!? Look, I'ma come out straight and say, there are probably truth to the Misha post. Now we wait for Honda to response, or release the full specs for the S-Grade.

When the full spec for the S-Grade gets release, there be more to sieve thru. If the spec suggest gearing and turbo boost are revised for the S-grade, than I believe Honda did get busted and owns up to it, and a few lucky euro enthesis will be happy as hell. Or Honda can always play the "you think what you want game", by simply releasing the same info we already have. If Honda goes this route, than I don't really know if the truth will come out. The best when someone does take delivery of an S-Grade and testing begins. Even then, testing conditions and traffic may not allow an un-interrupted test run.

I still love the shit out of my FL5, and will try to hold on for a very long time...

ok, let the begin

Just to let You know, an Aussie FL5 owner did what I suggested tonight taking their newly delivered FL5 (already break-in) down the Straight on a Track in Sydney going 180km 5th gear. He and another owner were able to consistently reach 1.66~1.69 Bar Boost, with Him achieving the Highest at 1.75 Bar with 15° Ambient Temperature. I discovered last night on CIVICXI.COM that someone on this thread discovered the fact that the Temperature between L'argus's Lap and the Lap Record done by Honda had an 8° difference in Ambient Temperature. So the experiment an Aussie owner did tonight proves that the stock FL5 can achieve 1.75 Bar Boost, therefore Honda did not Cheat at All in anyway on their Lap Record. It proves Misha's assumptions were Wrong that Honda Cheated. ‍

 

[UFO CTR]

Just to let You know, an Aussie FL5 owner did what I suggested tonight taking their newly delivered FL5 (already break-in) down the Straight on a Track in Sydney going 180km 5th gear. He and another owner were able to consistently reach 1.66~1.69 Bar Boost, with Him achieving the Highest at 1.75 Bar with 15° Ambient Temperature. I discovered last night on CIVICXI.COM that someone on this thread discovered the fact that the Temperature between L'argus's Lap and the Lap Record done by Honda had an 8° difference in Ambient Temperature. So the experiment an Aussie owner did tonight proves that the stock FL5 can achieve 1.75 Bar Boost, therefore Honda did not Cheat at All in anyway on their Lap Record. It proves Misha's assumptions were Wrong that Honda Cheated. ‍

I understand the temperature different, and read the same post, but it's only one part of Misha's arguement...the question about 6th gear still exist tho. If you watch the top speed and the available Nurburgring videos on Youtube, you can see that all redlines 5th, than shifts to 6th, and still no shift light yet. If you watch the onboard of the record run, you can see, particularly on the back long straight, that the test vehicle already had (2) shift lights (below at 7:07 is when driver shifts from 5th to 6th)...you can see 2-light right away.



in the below L'argus top speed run video, at 41 seconds in is when the driver shifted from 5th to 6th and engine speed at 5600 rpm. Clearly no shift light after shifting from 5th to 6th yet...1st shift light comes on at 5700 rpm, and 2nd shift light comes on at 6000 rpm.



I've watched the record onboard run several times, and I've clearly 5th to 6th shift immediately with 2-shift lights. That means if all is "supposed" to be the same, than the test car shouldn't have any shift lights, and that, it should be another 400-ish rpm for the 2nd shift-light to illuminate.

To me, there is still a discontinuity that needs to be reconciled. I need to see another video that shows 5th - 6th shift with 2-shift light immediately, than I will say Misha's claims are horse sh$&; otherwise, Misha still makes a good point. Another thing is Misha eat/sleep/drink Nurburgring, so if he's not completely sure something needs to be looked at, he won't put his reputation on the line like that.

But again, I still love the hell out of my FL5...drove it to work today, and biggest smiles always. Brand New murdered out RS6 Wagon with all the big FLARES had to cut a few lanes to get a closer look.

 

[Tkmwong80]

I understand the temperature different, and read the same post, but it's only one part of Misha's arguement...the question about 6th gear still exist tho. If you watch the top speed and the available Nurburgring videos on Youtube, you can see that all redlines 5th, than shifts to 6th, and still no shift light yet. If you watch the onboard of the record run, you can see, particularly on the back long straight, that the test vehicle already had (2) shift lights (below at 7:07 is when driver shifts from 5th to 6th)...you can see 2-light right away.



in the below L'argus top speed run video, at 41 seconds in is when the driver shifted from 5th to 6th and engine speed at 5600 rpm. Clearly no shift light after shifting from 5th to 6th yet...1st shift light comes on at 5700 rpm, and 2nd shift light comes on at 6000 rpm.



I've watched the record onboard run several times, and I've clearly 5th to 6th shift immediately with 2-shift lights. That means if all is "supposed" to be the same, than the test car shouldn't have any shift lights, and that, it should be another 400-ish rpm for the 2nd shift-light to illuminate.

To me, there is still a discontinuity that needs to be reconciled. I need to see another video that shows 5th - 6th shift with 2-shift light immediately, than I will say Misha's claims are horse sh$&; otherwise, Misha still makes a good point. Another thing is Misha eat/sleep/drink Nurburgring, so if he's not completely sure something needs to be looked at, he won't put his reputation on the line like that.

But again, I still love the hell out of my FL5...drove it to work today, and biggest smiles always. Brand New murdered out RS6 Wagon with all the big FLARES had to cut a few lanes to get a closer look.

Maybe watching this video might Help, it's the Lap Record comparison between FK8 and FK5.



On the Long straight both the FK8 Driver and FL5 Driver shifted to 6th gear almost at the same identical time. This kinda debunks the speculation that the FL5 had shorter gear ratios and was way faster shifting into 6th than normal.
(I know the FK8 had different Gear Ratios compared to the FL5).

I'm not talking about gear ratios, I'm talking about the time they changed gears. If You notice, a lot of debate was already said couple of months ago that the FK8 is faster than the FL5 gear to gear on a drag race. If the S Variant is different to Stock FL5, then it should be obviously much faster going into 6th compared to the FK8. But it really doesn't seem like that. If You watch the video closely, the first half of the video both drivers almost shifts to 5th and 6th gear at the same time (almost all the other gears as well). It is only until later in the 2nd half You would notice the FL5 is already gradually running faster than the FK8 bit by bit.

4 seconds Faster than the previous generation FK8 is actually not that much (similar to the Suzuka Record, the FL5 only beat the FK8 record by very little), but just enough to beat the Megane Trophy R.

 

[UFO CTR]

Maybe watching this video might Help, it's the Lap Record comparison between FK8 and FK5.



On the Long straight both the FK8 Driver and FL5 Driver shifted to 6th gear almost at the same identical time. This kinda debunks the speculation that the FL5 had shorter gear ratios and was way faster shifting into 6th than normal.
(I know the FK8 had different Gear Ratios compared to the FL5).

I'm not talking about gear ratios, I'm talking about the time they changed gears. If You notice, a lot of debate was already said couple of months ago that the FK8 is faster than the FL5 gear to gear on a drag race. If the S Variant is different to Stock FL5, then it should be obviously much faster going into 6th compared to the FK8. But it really doesn't seem like that. If You watch the video closely, the first half of the video both drivers almost shifts to 5th and 6th gear at the same time (almost all the other gears as well). It is only until later in the 2nd half You would notice the FL5 is already gradually running faster than the FK8 bit by bit.

4 seconds Faster than the previous generation FK8 is actually not that much (similar to the Suzuka Record, the FL5 only beat the FK8 record by very little), but just enough to beat the Megane Trophy R.

We're comparing FL5 and FL5 , not FK8 and FL5...
Find video of FL5 shifting 5 to 6 with 2 shift lights....not something with fk8

 

[Tkmwong80]

We're comparing FL5 and FL5 , not FK8 and FL5...
Find video of FL5 shifting 5 to 6 with 2 shift lights....not something with fk8

Well there isn't one at this moment. If Honda did really want to cheat, they could have stripped out the back Seat and put a Roll Cage in like they did with FK8 Record Lap, they could have thrown in the lighter weight Forged wheels as well which they didn't, and also the OEM Carbon Fibre Rear GT-Wing available from Modulo for extra downforce.

If they were going to cheat, why skip All of those things that would help produce a Better Lap Record???

So I don't believe they did Cheat. Misha yes He's an expert on the Nurburgring, but don't forget He's also a Content Creator/Influencer as well on YouTube. He did the same kinda speculation as well even for Porsche on their Lap Records.

 

[nezumi]

Just to let You know, an Aussie FL5 owner did what I suggested tonight taking their newly delivered FL5 (already break-in) down the Straight on a Track in Sydney going 180km 5th gear. He and another owner were able to consistently reach 1.66~1.69 Bar Boost, with Him achieving the Highest at 1.75 Bar with 15° Ambient Temperature. I discovered last night on CIVICXI.COM that someone on this thread discovered the fact that the Temperature between L'argus's Lap and the Lap Record done by Honda had an 8° difference in Ambient Temperature. So the experiment an Aussie owner did tonight proves that the stock FL5 can achieve 1.75 Bar Boost, therefore Honda did not Cheat at All in anyway on their Lap Record. It proves Misha's assumptions were Wrong that Honda Cheated. ‍

All those Sydney guys got their Type R's delivered and yet we are steal waiting in Melbourne. Melbourne is far too behind compared to all the other states.

 

[Tkmwong80]

Well there isn't one at this moment. If Honda did really want to cheat, they could have stripped out the back Seat and put a Roll Cage in like they did with FK8 Record Lap, they could have thrown in the lighter weight Forged wheels as well which they didn't, and also the OEM Carbon Fibre Rear GT-Wing available from Modulo for extra downforce.

If they were going to cheat, why skip All of those things that would help produce a Better Lap Record???

So I don't believe they did Cheat. Misha yes He's an expert on the Nurburgring, but don't forget He's also a Content Creator/Influencer as well on YouTube. He did the same kinda speculation as well even for Porsche on their Lap Records.

All those Sydney guys got their Type R's delivered and yet we are steal waiting in Melbourne. Melbourne is far too behind compared to all the other states.

Yes, dunno why that is the case. But from what I know, currently around 5 people in Victoria has already picked up their FL5. Should be more coming next month or so hopefully.

 

[Dennis]

Lol, thanks for joining in on what is gross. Even if it wasn't intentional.

Perhaps I should raise that bar even more.
I'm not an expert social media pundit nor a veteran trackday warrior, neither my seven laps worth of experience on the Ring can make a dent to the speculations originated from that Content-Creator® Misha guy's video.

I'm the quintessential average driving enthusiast, a totally unknown one in a one-billion of other enthusiasts in this world.
To me, this very well recorded on board fast lap of a professional racing driver, with real touring car racing experience on the Nordschleife, behind the wheel of the only Japan developed Type-R since more than a decade, is solid gold, period.
That pedal cam is worth the record all alone, in this age were the most of the industry is focused on making a fool of us, totally buying into believing we're "sportscar drivers" on their overpriced dct-awd dull shitboxes artificially banging their boosted 500 hp from the exhaust, if we're still even experiencing a real car and not claiming to do it behind a PC screen.

And then, searching the web for some insightful news on the setup of this car, I see the dreadful truth.
That FL5 on the Ring is a special one.
It is somehow lighter than the standard.
They ditched the EU mandatory tyre repair kit from the trunk, emptied the windshield washer tank, pulled the floor mats and Girolami took a shit right before jumping on board, shaving off that last 2 lbs of pizza he ate in a Cochem restaurant the day before.
Maybe the sixth gear is shorter, maybe the turbo is pulling harder.
Maybe we don't know a car driven by a racing driver is somehow faster on the same lap than the same car driven by a non-racing driver, guess what.
God Almighty, that Civic was even wearing those amazing Michelin Cup2 tyres, surely they also tweaked rear toe and pulled the pins on struts gaining .3 degrees of camber.
Fucking cheaters, also fucking Nurburgring officials for endorsing this scam, a non-special one FL5 will be 26,723 seconds slower than this special one, shame on you Honda time to make Seppuku.

Yes mate, maybe I'm gross.
But all these smart-ass car experts, with their smart-ass Content-Creator® social status, whose only legit Reaction® to this Honda video are plot speculations on minute details while totally missing any of the humongous pleasure of being able to enjoy and learn from Girolami's skills driving an FL5, well, they are as retards as the people flooding their comment sections, endorsing their status while earning dead brain cells in return.

I'm sorry for the rant and the bad vibes, too much Gan-san videos and touge driving in my childhood, I guess.

 

[UFO CTR]

Perhaps I should raise that bar even more.
I'm not an expert social media pundit nor a veteran trackday warrior, neither my seven laps worth of experience on the Ring can make a dent to the speculations originated from that Content-Creator® Misha guy's video.

I'm the quintessential average driving enthusiast, a totally unknown one in a one-billion of other enthusiasts in this world.
To me, this very well recorded on board fast lap of a professional racing driver, with real touring car racing experience on the Nordschleife, behind the wheel of the only Japan developed Type-R since more than a decade, is solid gold, period.
That pedal cam is worth the record all alone, in this age were the most of the industry is focused on making a fool of us, totally buying into believing we're "sportscar drivers" on their overpriced dct-awd dull shitboxes artificially banging their boosted 500 hp from the exhaust, if we're still even experiencing a real car and not claiming to do it behind a PC screen.

And then, searching the web for some insightful news on the setup of this car, I see the dreadful truth.
That FL5 on the Ring is a special one.
It is somehow lighter than the standard.
They ditched the EU mandatory tyre repair kit from the trunk, emptied the windshield washer tank, pulled the floor mats and Girolami took a shit right before jumping on board, shaving off that last 2 lbs of pizza he ate in a Cochem restaurant the day before.
Maybe the sixth gear is shorter, maybe the turbo is pulling harder.
Maybe we don't know a car driven by a racing driver is somehow faster on the same lap than the same car driven by a non-racing driver, guess what.
God Almighty, that Civic was even wearing those amazing Michelin Cup2 tyres, surely they also tweaked rear toe and pulled the pins on struts gaining .3 degrees of camber.
Fucking cheaters, also fucking Nurburgring officials for endorsing this scam, a non-special one FL5 will be 26,723 seconds slower than this special one, shame on you Honda time to make Seppuku.

Yes mate, maybe I'm gross.
But all these smart-ass car experts, with their smart-ass Content-Creator® social status, whose only legit Reaction® to this Honda video are plot speculations on minute details while totally missing any of the humongous pleasure of being able to enjoy and learn from Girolami's skills driving an FL5, well, they are as retards as the people flooding their comment sections, endorsing their status while earning dead brain cells in return.

I'm sorry for the rant and the bad vibes, too much Gan-san videos and touge driving in my childhood, I guess.

joking right?!?!
Maybe F1 should do away with all the track limit, or take a blind eye to flexie wings? As long "as there's a good driver behind the wheel, you can cheat a little on the time". Yeah, he's a great driver, wow! maybe put a V8 in there mate? Or maybe the tour de France should stop dope testing...all of them are great riders right? you're a joke! if official time is being kept, than it needs to be fair...

 

[Dennis]

What are you talking about mate, have a read on the Nurburgring website to understand the rules of this game, rather than blindly judging it by your own fairness standards.

https://nuerburgring.de/info/nuerburgring/records

In order to attempt a record lap in a production car category as defined by the KBA, the competitor must provide a vehicle which has already granted an EU roadworthiness type approval file.
The compliance of the record-attempting vehicle to said type approval file is being certified and supervised by a notary from the Tuv Rehinland, incidentally one of the most renowned technical services in Europe in providing this kind of homologation services for manufacturers.

Since the Honda Civic laptime has been officially recognised by the Nurburgring company under their rules, all these rants on cheating are big noise out of thin air.
The "S grade" FL5 is already an EU approved vehicle for series production, albeit still not on the market (there'll NOT be any FL5 on the market in the EU for at least another year, by the way, other than those few ones already sold).
The record breaking car is a legit one, complying on its series production homologation within the tolerances regulated this side of the pond.
Said compliance, by the way, being a much more serious affair here, than in the US.

Then, if someone still feel cheated because all the rules were met, but Honda didn't disclosed in capital letters in the Youtube video's title:
"WARNING: THIS CAR IS NOT A TYPE-R AS THE ONES ALREADY SOLD, IT IS A TYPE-R-S YOU'LL HOPEFULLY BE ABLE TO BUY WHEN OUR JAPAN FACTORIES WILL MANAGE TO SOLVE THEIR SHIT",
like Renault didn't wrote:
"WARNING: THIS IS CAR IS NOT A STANDARD MEGANE RS TROPHY-R, IT HAS 30.000 € WORTH OF UNOBTANIUM PARTS IN LIMITED STOCK ",
or like Porsche didn't stated:
"ANY PEOPLE WHINING ON MANTHEY KITS INSTALLED BETTER GO FUCKING THEMSELVES ON MOMMA'S AUDI RS",
well, I can't be of any help on this matter.

So finally, being aware of the rules of this game and taking it only for what it really is, well yes, I appreciate and respect the great technical challenge overcomed by both the drivers and the manufacturers on these record attempts, instead of jumping blindly on pointless social bandwagons of retard fighting over speculations on things they don't take half a minute worth of reading to understand.
Going this pace, some day not too far there'll be no more people challenging records beyond known limits and sharing their accomplishments to the others, there'll be only retards.

 

[UFO CTR]

What are you talking about mate, have a read on the Nurburgring website to understand the rules of this game, rather than blindly judging it by your own fairness standards.

https://nuerburgring.de/info/nuerburgring/records

In order to attempt a record lap in a production car category as defined by the KBA, the competitor must provide a vehicle which has already granted an EU roadworthiness type approval file.
The compliance of the record-attempting vehicle to said type approval file is being certified and supervised by a notary from the Tuv Rehinland, incidentally one of the most renowned technical services in Europe in providing this kind of homologation services for manufacturers.

Since the Honda Civic laptime has been officially recognised by the Nurburgring company under their rules, all these rants on cheating are big noise out of thin air.
The "S grade" FL5 is already an EU approved vehicle for series production, albeit still not on the market (there'll NOT be any FL5 on the market in the EU for at least another year, by the way, other than those few ones already sold).
The record breaking car is a legit one, complying on its series production homologation within the tolerances regulated this side of the pond.
Said compliance, by the way, being a much more serious affair here, than in the US.

Then, if someone still feel cheated because all the rules were met, but Honda didn't disclosed in capital letters in the Youtube video's title:
"WARNING: THIS CAR IS NOT A TYPE-R AS THE ONES ALREADY SOLD, IT IS A TYPE-R-S YOU'LL HOPEFULLY BE ABLE TO BUY WHEN OUR JAPAN FACTORIES WILL MANAGE TO SOLVE THEIR SHIT",
like Renault didn't wrote:
"WARNING: THIS IS CAR IS NOT A STANDARD MEGANE RS TROPHY-R, IT HAS 30.000 € WORTH OF UNOBTANIUM PARTS IN LIMITED STOCK ",
or like Porsche didn't stated:
"ANY PEOPLE WHINING ON MANTHEY KITS INSTALLED BETTER GO FUCKING THEMSELVES ON MOMMA'S AUDI RS",
well, I can't be of any help on this matter.

So finally, being aware of the rules of this game and taking it only for what it really is, well yes, I appreciate and respect the great technical challenge overcomed by both the drivers and the manufacturers on these record attempts, instead of jumping blindly on pointless social bandwagons of retard fighting over speculations on things they don't take half a minute worth of reading to understand.
Going this pace, some day not too far there'll be no more people challenging records beyond known limits and sharing their accomplishments to the others, there'll be only retards.

WTF does a driver ability have to the with rules?!?!
you're a joke...you're trying to change the subject?!?

why should we ignore the gearing and the boost just because the drivers have good foot work ?!? really, is good footwork part of the rules? I don't even need to read your' post. what a joker

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