Brake fading during track day

[geekatthewheel]

hi all!

I had the chance to go on my first track day since I got the FL5 last November and wow is this car capable (clearly the driver was the weakest item in the value chain here!). I was easily faster than more powerful cars as tuned TT RS and AMG 45S and then on the long straight they would gain on me. It is so easy to put this can in the right racing line. I had a great time. I also got to try the onboard telemetry and I have to say although I was in one of the preloaded tracks (Monteblanco, south of Spain), I had to manually set the finish line for laps to be recorded. What I could not get to work was the video from the phone, maybe you guys can help me, I use an android smartphone.

So to the point, after 8 laps pushing hard, my brake fluid gave up, pedal went to the floor and I had to pump with my foot for the car to brake, it was hot as you will see by the picture below. Of course, I got funny comments from other drivers as I had not replaced brake fluid for something like Motul 660 and had not done the brake lines. The feeling is scary and this car deserves better!

My dealership has offered me to flush the system and add 660 as well as changing brake lines for braided ones so long as I bring the parts in. I am doing fluid this Thursday but I am reading mixed comments on braided lines (not much of a change, don't do it when the car is new..). So couple of points where I could use your help.

1 - Has anyone experienced the same?

2 - Is it worth doing the braided lines? The car is only 6 months old.

thank you! pic for context!

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[Fanatic]

@PointByPatrol
@Jester04

Upgrade on brake fluid and brake pads has made a world of difference to me personally in the past.

 

[geekatthewheel]

Which pads did you mount and what was the reasoning behind deviating from OEM? Thanks a lot!

 

[PointByPatrol]

@PointByPatrol
@Jester04

Upgrade on brake fluid and brake pads has made a world of difference to me personally in the past.

Thanks for calling me in to this one @Fanatic.

To answer the OP:

You will absolutely want to replace your factory brake lines for stainless steel. The rubber brake hoses expand with high hydraulic pressure, which thereby prevents full pressure from reaching the most important part of the braking system. THE CALIPER!

About the brake fluid: I am a HUGE fan of Motul products, but I've changed my mind on this particular subject. I would strongly recommend using Castrol SRF. It stands up to a lot more abuse, and doesn't have to be flushed as often as the Motul fluid. It's also sold in 1L bottles as opposed to 500mL, which means the cost is the same. For your application, I'd recommend purchasing two bottles of the Castrol SRF for your first flush, and for future flushes you'll only need to buy one bottle.

Lastly, to prevent excessive heat from reaching your caliper, and allowing you to stay on track even longer, I'd recommend either titanium or carbon brake pad shims. These aid in blocking heat from the brake pads, and are a highly effective and cheap upgrade for your braking system.

 

[86salmon]

+1 for SRF and braided lines. I've boiled Ate 200 and Motul 600. It's a scary feeling

Upgrading pads allows for a higher heat threshold. I've used pads that didn't glaze but smeared at high heat leading to brake pedal vibration at higher speeds

 

[Jester04]

@PointByPatrol
@Jester04

Upgrade on brake fluid and brake pads has made a world of difference to me personally in the past.

Yes I agree with @Fanatic, one of the biggest improvements you can make are brake pads with good fluid. Also might want to add the titanium shims to help protect the color of the calipers as long as possible.

The braided lines are a good option for brake feel but not absolutely necessary. I’m running stock lines as of now but will be upgrading mine soon.

 

[Sooner1]

Yes I agree with @Fanatic, one of the biggest improvements you can make are brake pads with good fluid. Also might want to add the titanium shims to help protect the color of the calipers as long as possible.

The braided lines are a good option for brake feel but not absolutely necessary. I’m running stock lines as of now but will be upgrading mine soon.

Any suggestions on a brand or where to purchase the titanium shims?

 

[svvitch]

I had ATE Type 200 ready to go. I'll try SRF instead. Plus the shims thanks for the call out @PointByPatrol The wet boiling point of the SRF Is quite a bit higher vs. Motul.

I think I went with ATE based on like 15 year old info in my head from past track experience. Who would have thought fluid tech has moved on

 

[simpleisbest]

Any suggestions on a brand or where to purchase the titanium shims?

Paragon

 

[PointByPatrol]

Paragon

I also used Paragon. Hybrid carbon shims can be had from HEL Performance since the OP is in Spain.

 

[Jester04]

Any suggestions on a brand or where to purchase the titanium shims?

I bought the Paragon titanium shims from one of the other sponsors here. @Two Step Performance

Support your vendors I say!

 

[geekatthewheel]

hey guys! thanks a lot for chiming in and offering the help!

I have never had an issue on hot track days with the 2NH brakes on my M2C, they use Ferodo pads and I believe the OEM lines and I assumed the FL5 would come with similar tech. I have already bought 2 L of 660. If I use Motul now and want to add SRF next time, same recommendatio applies to buying 2L initially to flush again right?

On the pads, lines and shims. I have shortlisted these products to order-
Lines: https://es.helperformance.com/hel-braided-brake-lines-for-honda-civic-fl5-type-r-2022
Shims: https://auto.helperformance.com/carbon-fibre-brake-pad-shims-for-honda-civic-fl5-type-r-2022-on (front only)

Any recommendation on brake pads?

Thanks a lot for the comments, this really helps!

 

[TW00Si]

I have been using carbotech pads on my S2000 and previously on the FK8. No issues with it. For me, it has enough bite.

 

[Cdsbblue]

I changed to Paragon pads, with Paragon titanium shims. Also, changed to Castrol SRF. Only been on track a couple of times but no issues whatsoever with brakes related to fluid (glazed my pads a bit, left some excess material on discs and got some shimmy but that's on me). Have not swapped out brake lines and probably won't. I suspect that I'm not driving at such a high level that I'd notice the difference.

 

[PointByPatrol]

hey guys! thanks a lot for chiming in and offering the help!

I have never had an issue on hot track days with the 2NH brakes on my M2C, they use Ferodo pads and I believe the OEM lines and I assumed the FL5 would come with similar tech. I have already bought 2 L of 660. If I use Motul now and want to add SRF next time, same recommendatio applies to buying 2L initially to flush again right?

On the pads, lines and shims. I have shortlisted these products to order-
Lines: https://es.helperformance.com/hel-braided-brake-lines-for-honda-civic-fl5-type-r-2022
Shims: https://auto.helperformance.com/carbon-fibre-brake-pad-shims-for-honda-civic-fl5-type-r-2022-on (front only)

Any recommendation on brake pads?

Thanks a lot for the comments, this really helps!

To flush out the motul I'd recommend at least 2 bottles of the SRF. So 4 liters. I'm a big fan of the Ferodo DS3.12 pads. They last longer than the Paragon R7's in my experience. As far as the stuff on your shortlist, you've got the right idea!

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