Carbon Ceramic Rotors? Legit? Worthwhile?

[scottjua]

I stumbled upon these and the price seemed, not too bad if the tropes hold true about carbon ceramics... super long wear life, exceeding maybe 2-3 or more times the wear and cost of as many sets of steel rotors? Not to mention weight savings...

Intriguing, but admittedly I never ever once looked into the tech or mustered much actual knowledge about them.

Are these legit? Has anyone heard of them before? For $1800 a set it might be something worth doing if they outlast 3-4 sets of steel rotors.

Thoughts?

link: https://forzaccb.com/products/carbon-ceramic-rotors-honda-civic-type-r-fl5-2022

Sponsored

 

[NeRO_CTR]

Many pros, that are worth the change. But, to answer your question directly “depends on driving habits.” Costing .01c per mile, I’d say that’s a worthy purchase. It costs .15c per mile, just to drive in CA.

 

[cryptolime]

worthwhile? not to me. but i don't track my car.

 

[alSpeed2k]

Carbon ceramics aren't meant for the track. Porsche owners that track generally replace their carbon ceramics in favor of iron rotors.

 

[AZCWTypeR]

The hub and cooling passages look very rough. The IMSA prototype rotors I've seen are very smooth all over.
Carbon-Carbon is essentially charcoal. In production it takes a lot of infiltration and burn cycles to get it dense enough, and even then you're left with porosity and fragility compared to steel rotors.
Porsche and others charge big $, because they've done it right. I wouldn't trust my life to cheap rotors. If you break a rotor, the car is leaving the roadway.

 

[AspecR]

I stumbled upon these and the price seemed, not too bad if the tropes hold true about carbon ceramics... super long wear life, exceeding maybe 2-3 or more times the wear and cost of as many sets of steel rotors? Not to mention weight savings...

Intriguing, but admittedly I never ever once looked into the tech or mustered much actual knowledge about them.

Are these legit? Has anyone heard of them before? For $1800 a set it might be something worth doing if they outlast 3-4 sets of steel rotors.

Thoughts?

link: https://forzaccb.com/products/carbon-ceramic-rotors-honda-civic-type-r-fl5-2022

This look promising especially since CCBs should last longer than a traditional rotor, I'm not seeing any pads to go with it though. Wouldn't CCBs needs CCB-specific pads?

 

[optronix]

Carbon ceramics aren't meant for the track. Porsche owners that track generally replace their carbon ceramics in favor of iron rotors.

^this. But also it's driven by cost factors. Replacing CCBs on a Porsche is a 5-figure affair (pretty much per wheel...). They're not a cost-efficient wear item for heavy track use- especially factoring in the possibility of chipping a rotor during a trackside wheel swap.

Occasional track use though they're a great option. For the guy like me who might hit a max of 3 HPDEs per year, I'd be a great candidate for picking carbon-ceramics if they're an available option. They actually are better for track use- just using Porsche as a reference point, they're probably at least ~30lbs or so per axle of unsprung weight, along with the temperature and wear factors that are scientifically superior to iron. If you're only putting a few thousand miles a year on a 2nd car with occasional track use, CCBs start to make a lot of sense.

The product that's linked for $1800 on an FL5 though specifically? RED FUCKING FLAGS. First of all, someone mentioned the pads already- you can't just use your OEM pads, they do have to be matched to the rotor. You will destroy the rotors in a single session if you try. They don't really reference that on that product page- just allude to "extra cost". Already shady.

Then there's the other things they're not really talking about- there are a ton of electronic systems that are tuned to expected parameters for the way the car rolls off the factory line. ABS, VSA/AHA/torque vectoring, etc.- not to mention mechanical/hydraulic elements that would affect pedal feel or even lead to issues compromising the master cylinder (which is also shared with the clutch in our cars...). Not the type of stuff you'd want to be running into at 10/10ths on a race track.

And that's not even getting into the sus vendor here. I know we just had a conversation somewhere talking to the fallacy of the legacy mentality that "China = bad", but in this case with the whole "Italian know-how" marketing stuff, lack of reviews, company known for making wheels for Rolls Royces... it's probably something worth looking into.

Just a solid HELL FUCKING NO from me dog.

 

[AspecR]

^this. But also it's driven by cost factors. Replacing CCBs on a Porsche is a 5-figure affair (pretty much per wheel...). They're not a cost-efficient wear item for heavy track use- especially factoring in the possibility of chipping a rotor during a trackside wheel swap.

Occasional track use though they're a great option. For the guy like me who might hit a max of 3 HPDEs per year, I'd be a great candidate for picking carbon-ceramics if they're an available option. They actually are better for track use- just using Porsche as a reference point, they're probably at least ~30lbs or so per axle of unsprung weight, along with the temperature and wear factors that are scientifically superior to iron. If you're only putting a few thousand miles a year on a 2nd car with occasional track use, CCBs start to make a lot of sense.

The product that's linked for $1800 on an FL5 though specifically? RED FUCKING FLAGS. First of all, someone mentioned the pads already- you can't just use your OEM pads, they do have to be matched to the rotor. You will destroy the rotors in a single session if you try. They don't really reference that on that product page- just allude to "extra cost". Already shady.

Then there's the other things they're not really talking about- there are a ton of electronic systems that are tuned to expected parameters for the way the car rolls off the factory line. ABS, VSA/AHA/torque vectoring, etc.- not to mention mechanical/hydraulic elements that would affect pedal feel or even lead to issues compromising the master cylinder (which is also shared with the clutch in our cars...). Not the type of stuff you'd want to be running into at 10/10ths on a race track.

And that's not even getting into the sus vendor here. I know we just had a conversation somewhere talking to the fallacy of the legacy mentality that "China = bad", but in this case with the whole "Italian know-how" marketing stuff, lack of reviews, company known for making wheels for Rolls Royces... it's probably something worth looking into.

Just a solid HELL FUCKING NO from me dog.

The red flags you highlighted can't be ignored, especially since the carbon ceramic rotors posted would be cheaper than a replacement set of 2 piece rotors from some JDM brands like Spoon, Endless and Project Mu. That doesn't seem feasible at the moment without the company already having some scaled operation already in place.

It makes more sense to go with one of the verified chinese manufacturers at the moment like Icooh.

Perfect example is Tegiwa, a trusted brand has a set CTE CCBs that include pads but cost pretty much 4x what's been posted here

https://www.tegiwa.com/products/cte...5AZlT09ep2Qsa70DBMqLekqLNLxDTRdIW9huaqxYwJRRY

 

[ctechauto]

^this. But also it's driven by cost factors. Replacing CCBs on a Porsche is a 5-figure affair (pretty much per wheel...). They're not a cost-efficient wear item for heavy track use- especially factoring in the possibility of chipping a rotor during a trackside wheel swap.

Occasional track use though they're a great option. For the guy like me who might hit a max of 3 HPDEs per year, I'd be a great candidate for picking carbon-ceramics if they're an available option. They actually are better for track use- just using Porsche as a reference point, they're probably at least ~30lbs or so per axle of unsprung weight, along with the temperature and wear factors that are scientifically superior to iron. If you're only putting a few thousand miles a year on a 2nd car with occasional track use, CCBs start to make a lot of sense.

The product that's linked for $1800 on an FL5 though specifically? RED FUCKING FLAGS. First of all, someone mentioned the pads already- you can't just use your OEM pads, they do have to be matched to the rotor. You will destroy the rotors in a single session if you try. They don't really reference that on that product page- just allude to "extra cost". Already shady.

Then there's the other things they're not really talking about- there are a ton of electronic systems that are tuned to expected parameters for the way the car rolls off the factory line. ABS, VSA/AHA/torque vectoring, etc.- not to mention mechanical/hydraulic elements that would affect pedal feel or even lead to issues compromising the master cylinder (which is also shared with the clutch in our cars...). Not the type of stuff you'd want to be running into at 10/10ths on a race track.

And that's not even getting into the sus vendor here. I know we just had a conversation somewhere talking to the fallacy of the legacy mentality that "China = bad", but in this case with the whole "Italian know-how" marketing stuff, lack of reviews, company known for making wheels for Rolls Royces... it's probably something worth looking into.

Just a solid HELL FUCKING NO from me dog.

Our track car is a Cayman, been around and work on Porsches at the shop as well.

To add on top of this, Porsche has indirectly published that the PCCBs are not for the track either way. And in realistic uses cases, they overheat and will destroy pads and rotors on track (couple of times a year is fine, I'm talking about regular use). No one wants a sub-par braking system on the track with the added overhead consumable cost. Not to mention they usually are WAY oversized (which is salt in the wound because they still overheat) and extremely limit you to proper track wheels/tires sizing. This makes a no-brainer choice to go back to tried-and-true iron rotors and track pads. If you want to reduced unsprung weight, go with 2pc floating iron rotors and lighter wheels.

CCBs in all production level cars (even some supercars) regardless of MFG, are street oriented and they act and function as such. They last forever and are practically dust-less for the street but once they are driven hard on the track, they dont work as you'd expect unfortunately.

Sponsored