Enlightening read on wheel offset and effects on suspension and steering

[hammeredsole]

I really want to believe you. Not so much about 18s; I've said many times how much I hate how 18s look on the DE5. But I just don't think speculating on why manufacturers pick given offsets to manufacture is all that compelling- it's already been said, they're in business to sell wheels. If they only catered to race cars there would be a whole lot of margin to miss out on...

And anyway another point that is being missed with all this race car talk is how the car feels. As much as I'd like to think I'm Lewis Hamilton, I'm not, and about 99% of the time I'll be spending in my car will not be on a racetrack. I personally really enjoy the way my car's steering and handling feels for my purposes- pretty much backroads jaunts 3-4 times a month and a "motorsports-type event" 4-7 times a year. I don't want to do anything to jeopardize that. So arguing over what reasons race cars decide to go with 18x9.5+38 is still pretty irrelevant to me, whether they use factory mounting points or not. There are many compromises that are overlooked when chasing lap times; I'm not about that life.

There's a couple different sets of wheels I could buy right now in 19x9.5+45 that I really like. I'm still looking for definitive evidence that if I go that route I won't hate the changes it brings. I really could care less if there's a performance impact or not- I care more about the sensory element anyway, and I'm not convinced it's worth compromising so I can be hella flush yo.

You can get custom offsets for some higher end wheels right? I know you can with HRE but I was hoping some of the Japanese brands offer this too...

Right now, there are limited choices.

OEM forged type R wheels at 19x9.5 +60mm

and the best variety comes from Mita.

I am looking at the Mita 02 in 18x9.5 +53mm,
But they’re also available in 19’s at custom offset, as are all of their wheels.

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[dng]

I was considering the Apex Ec-7 18x9.5 in ET58’s which keeps wheel offset as close to +60 as possible. Any downside to these? Looked like sufficient clearance to brakes if you don’t mind a bmw sort of looking wheel.

 

[hammeredsole]

I was considering the Apex Ec-7 18x9.5 in ET58’s which keeps wheel offset as close to +60 as possible. Any downside to these? Looked like sufficient clearance to brakes if you don’t mind a bmw sort of looking wheel.

I wasn’t aware of those. The ARC8 are available in the same size also. I agree, the aesthetic is a bit BMW, but they’re fairly attractive wheels. The EC7 is a bit heavy, but the ARC are light. I’d love to see some more forged options in higher offset 50-60mm range.

 

[urbo73]

I was considering the Apex Ec-7 18x9.5 in ET58’s which keeps wheel offset as close to +60 as possible. Any downside to these? Looked like sufficient clearance to brakes if you don’t mind a bmw sort of looking wheel.

Center bore is larger than 64.1mm.

 

[urbo73]

And anyway another point that is being missed with all this race car talk is how the car feels. As much as I'd like to think I'm Lewis Hamilton, I'm not, and about 99% of the time I'll be spending in my car will not be on a racetrack. I personally really enjoy the way my car's steering and handling feels for my purposes- pretty much backroads jaunts 3-4 times a month and a "motorsports-type event" 4-7 times a year. I don't want to do anything to jeopardize that. So arguing over what reasons race cars decide to go with 18x9.5+38 is still pretty irrelevant to me, whether they use factory mounting points or not. There are many compromises that are overlooked when chasing lap times; I'm not about that life.

There's a couple different sets of wheels I could buy right now in 19x9.5+45 that I really like. I'm still looking for definitive evidence that if I go that route I won't hate the changes it brings. I really could care less if there's a performance impact or not- I care more about the sensory element anyway, and I'm not convinced it's worth compromising so I can be hella flush yo.

For street use, and even track really, it's not going to matter. There is a lot of theoretical talk in this thread. This is a street car on street tires. That's the limit you'll feel more. You're not going to feel any difference 15mm out...

 

[optronix]

For street use, and even track really, it's not going to matter. There is a lot of theoretical talk in this thread. This is a street car on street tires. That's the limit you'll feel more. You're not going to feel any difference 15mm out...

Sorry, but a random forum member telling me this means very little. Especially because another random forum member says the exact opposite.

See where I'm going with this?

I'll tell you what's going to happen. I'm going to spend $6k on a set of Volks and convince myself they're great, and by proxy start telling everyone online they're great.

 

[urbo73]

Sorry, but a random forum member telling me this means very little. Especially because another random forum member says the exact opposite.

See where I'm going with this?

I'll tell you what's going to happen. I'm going to spend $6k on a set of Volks and convince myself they're great, and by proxy start telling everyone online they're great.

You're looking for "definitive evidence" for the "sensory element" on an Internet forum...You'll never find the former on a forum and the latter is subjective. So not sure why you're even posting TBH, especially on this forum as you have the ITS.

If you've had a lot of cars, you'd know by now the questions you're asking as well. Yeah, spending seems to be your thing...

 

[dandaman15]

The thing that will have the most impact on feel are the tires chosen for the new set of wheels. People saying the car feels worse when they buy Conti Extreme contact DWS or Hankook K12 EVO or any other Max performance tire is par for the course.

The factory PS4S is a specific compound made exactly for this chassis, so buying 265/35-18 off the shelf PS4S will have a worse feel unless you step up to the Extreme Summer category like Pilot SS, RE71R or similar tire. The factory compound is also closer to these 200TW tires than an "off the shelf" PS4S even with the same 240 rating.

 

[Icehawk]

For street use a lot of it is just about looks and what fits a lot of cars - no surprise but +45 is like THE most common offset for wheels that go on Japanese cars going back to the dawn of time so of course you see a ton with that offset or close to it. There is little thought by the vast majority of wheel makers about what the wheel will perform like on a specific car.

Center bore is larger than 64.1mm.

So what?

 

[dng]

Apex includes aluminum centering rings for a Honda application. I would think center bore size is less of an issue than wheel offset IMO.

 

[Icehawk]

As long as it is big enough it doesn't matter at all. I advise against running hubcentric rings, I've only seen problems caused by them. If you are mounting your wheels with any care they are unnecessary.

 

[CTR]

The thing that will have the most impact on feel are the tires chosen for the new set of wheels. People saying the car feels worse when they buy Conti Extreme contact DWS or Hankook K12 EVO or any other Max performance tire is par for the course.

My feelings about worse than stock handling are based on the 18" Continental Extreme Contact Sport 02. Regarded as nearly equivalent to the off the shelf Michelin PS4S tires in most performance shootouts.

I'd like to see the data showing that the stock tires are the same as 200 treadwear tires. I know it's a special tire but I've never seen where it says that it has more dry grip than an off the shelf Michelin PS4S.

People like to justify whatever they do to mod their car as the best. What would be my incentive to say that it's worse than stock in multiple ways?

 

[RickyJeezus]

I've gone back and forth from the stock set up on my FK8 and my 18"x9.5" +42 offset Volks, with 2 different types of tire on the 18s.

Once I went to 18s, the biggest difference I noticed was that steering response, and steering feel became worse. The steering effort was a bit lighter though due to the lightweight wheels. It also didn't help that the first set of tires I had we're Falken FK510s (265/35/18) which are sold as a 'summer tire' but honestly feel like an all season tire. Steering felt lazy, less direct, and numb compared to the stock set up. The only upside was that with that set up, the car was so comfortable that I wanted to drive it everywhere. Ride was quiet, and I felt that I didn't need to slow down for small potholes and bumps in the road.

I decided to switch to Falken RT615s (275/35/18) which are 200TW much stickier tires, that also have a stiffer sidewall, which definitely helped with some steering feel. The downside is that they do not ride as well as the FK510s, but I didn't expect them to since I bought a Type R to be a performer and not a cruiser. All this being said, it still didn't feel as well as the stock set up.

To sum everything up I would say wheel/offset effect can be minimized if you select the right tire. Of course, nothing will replace the stock set up, so my recommendation to anyone looking to go aftermarket wheel/tire would be to keep everything as close to stock as possible. 10th gen forums would say that +45 is the lowest offset you would want to go to maintain similar steering characteristics, but I feel that is just anecdotal.

 

[Robert.C]

Remember, Honda builds road cars, not race cars. They are NOT perfectly optimized for all-out performance from the factory (hell, not even Porsche GT-cars are designed that way; look at Manthey Racing’s results with Porsche’s GT lineup). They are designed to be compliant across a wide range of conditions.

The width and offset that is selected is about finding a *compromise* between performance, comfort, and efficiency. Honda doesn’t want massive tram lining, numb steering, or wheels that are too wide for the fenders (thus ruining the car’s aerodynamics)… they have to find a solution that works in most situations that also pleases the customer.

Also worth noting that “feel” does not automatically mean worse performance. There are a lot of wonderfully handling cars that are “slow” because they lack mechanical grip (Miata, Elise, ITR, etc.). Brilliantly responsive and light on its feet does not necessarily equate to speed around a corner. Vice versa, a numb car can be blisteringly fast around a bend if it has sufficient grip.

I think the key consideration is: does your tire capacity match your spring rate and chassis stiffness? You can quickly find yourself skipping, ripping sway bars out, or driving on your door handles if those things aren’t in concert with one another.

Not an engineer but autocrossed on and off for years, and those were my observations.

My FINAL point, however, is this: just let people do what they want with their cars!

 

[optronix]

You're looking for "definitive evidence" for the "sensory element" on an Internet forum...You'll never find the former on a forum and the latter is subjective. So not sure why you're even posting TBH, especially on this forum as you have the ITS.

If you've had a lot of cars, you'd know by now the questions you're asking as well. Yeah, spending seems to be your thing...

I've had enough cars to realize it's far easier to ruin them by slapping aftermarket parts on them than make them better.

Why do any of us do anything? Because I know I come on a civic forum for existentialist discussions.

I'm sorry I didn't realize this forum was exclusively for members of the Type R club. I know some people hate to be reminded, but the Integra Type S and Civic Type R kind of have a few things in common.

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