fredzy
Senior Member
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- #1
I've been compiling these notes for a few months and finally got some time to condense them over the holidays. The TL;DR is I enjoy driving the CTR a little more than the GRC and expect it to get better once the summer tires are back on. I don't regret the stint in the GRC by any means. It is probably the same amount of fun, it just achieves it differently. And of course the Civic is more practical.
Background
I wanted the FL5 Type R since I saw the first spy shots in May 2020. I never had any sort of crush on the GR Corolla. I gave the GRC a shot because I was ready for a new DD and an allocation fell into my lap that would end up about $12k cheaper than a Type R considering $5k markup. Plus AWD, since I'm in the snow belt. My only real concern was practicality.
To give some idea of my DD priorities I need a car that handles family duty well, and I want a car that is fun to drive. That's all. I don't plan to take this car to the track, and its abilities there are not very important to me. I also have a GR86, which I do occasionally take to the track. I only mention this to establish that I understand and can appreciate track capability.
Anyhow, 3-4 months in with the GRC I was feeling like my practicality concerns were coming valid. It was by no means unusable but compromises needed to be made. I won't go into too much detail on all that because it's easy for someone to take a look at a regular Corolla or Civic hatch on the lot for themselves to get a feel for it. You know best what you need. So yeah, my most objective reason to swap was size. Subjectively, I just wanted the CTR more. It sucks to pay so much for something that isn't what you really want and feels compromised. So once markups fell on CTR, nature took its course.
Funny thing is I probably wouldn't have switched if not for the blue flame '24 GRC Circuit Edition. After they announced it I convinced myself I was going to have to upgrade from my Core. It took a while for me to realize that I was lining up to pay CTR money for another GRC. Just as that was dawning on me, a Honda dealer I had a deposit with previously came out of the blue to tell me their ADMs were dropping and he had a car in transit for me.
So here in no particular order I'll compare things that I think are important for having fun, which is the only reason these cars exist.
Ride
Ride quality was the biggest surprise with both of these cars. Right off the bat I was way happier with the GRC than I expected I'd be. I was coming from a stock 2015 WRX, owned since new. GRC was not too stiff, not too soft. It felt very solid to me. Way less crashy over bumps than my WRX (again, stock.) It could be a little floaty at higher speeds but that never made me hesitate. I liked that it worked well all-around without adjustable damper BS.
I feared for the worst with the Type R. If there was going to be a regret, I figured this would be it. People were out there saying even comfort mode is no good. Reality is that the ride in +R is honestly fine for me. Then comfort feels like a friggin Buick! I still can't believe how it is. No plans to swap out the damper control unit for the softer Integra Type S module here. I'd say GRC is between Sport and +R, a little closer to +R but not as bouncy. I still hugely respect the simplicity of the GRC's ride but CTR's adaptive dampers are no BS.
Since they are comfort related, I'll mention the seats. If you care about keeping them looking good, the Type R's seats are a chore to get in and out of. Trying not to smash up that bolster, it's their only real flaw. Lack of heated seats isn't a big deal. I've had a few really cold days and there is no pain getting into them but it would have been nice to have. The Corolla seats are its most oft-cited flaw, and I admit they pained me to look at. But they were comfortable and I never once felt a lack of bolstering when I was tossing the car around. The Civic takes the W in comfort/support. Corolla takes the W for day to day ease of use. The tie-breaker I guess is the fact that the CTRs seats are a sight to behold and add a significant holy shit factor when looking upon the car.
Engine, etc
Sound, Corolla wins handily. Once you're really ripping in the CTR it's exciting, a little more of an event to pull out to redline. But the engine sounds from the corolla can be enjoyed at most any speed. Plus it makes more turbo noise etc. I miss the GRC's noises most of all
I thought I was going to miss the turbo lag drama of the Corolla, which I love. Once I was able to give the CTR some beans I found that it can be a little unruly too. If my car has a turbo, I want to know it! The K20's power doesn't come out of nowhere and kick you in the butt, but it's fun. For my tastes and how I drive, both cars are more than adequate in terms of engine response once up in the revs, though the CTR is more precise there.
Where the CTR engine is plainly nicer to live with is the smoothness. The G16 felt like it wanted to explode if I cruised much below 2500rpm. I suspect that is one part small displacement off-boost, two parts 3-cylinder harmonics. K20 is smooth at all rpms basically. I do not miss the coarseness of the G16 for around-town.
Related to engine, a little different than engine response, is gas pedal response.
Initially I was pretty disappointed with the go-pedal in the CTR. The Corolla's pedal was perfect. I never used iMT because it was a shame to waste such a responsive pedal! Heel-toe took some major adapting due to weird pedal placement, but once I figured out a foot position that worked, that gas pedal always gave me exactly what I was asking for. For a while I even suspected iMT knew when you were trying to do it yourself and helped out, ha. Meanwhile, driving smoothly around town and stop-and-go was never an issue.
CTR's pedal initially reminded me of the GR86, unpredictable. I eventually worked out that for blipping, the 'engine' had to be in +R mode. It still wasn't perfect, but it was close. The downside then is it's a little touchier getting going from a stop, so there was a learning curve to get consistently smooth around town once I started using +R exclusively. Add to this that CTR also has an issue with pedal placement and it had an uphill battle. I adapted to heel-toe more quickly than the GRC though, using a more conventional technique. Now that I'm past the break-in and was able to get comfortable ripping it I can say they're pretty much even in terms of right foot control and ease of use. I suppose most people will use rev-match anyhow, in which case yes they're both basically equal.
Both cars seemed to average around 25mpg for me in mixed driving, 30-33 mpg cruising 70-75 straight highway. CTR a little thirstier.
Traction, handling
My GRC did not have the LSD's. Scandalous, I know. I'll be damned if it mattered. It never wanted for more grip. I had to do crazy things to get it to understeer. I may have been missing out on some gnarly torque vectoring sensations but from where I was sitting I couldn't have asked for more. Jam the right foot in it and hang on. Lots of fun, if not the most dramatic thing.
The CTR went straight to the winter tires since I bought it in late November. 235/40-18 Pilot Alpin 5, the same set of tires I ran on the GRC. Uniquely apples to apples grip comparison. I put the GRC through its paces on those tires - it was hard to believe they were legit snow tires with how good they were in the dry. It was mostly the same story with the Civic, at least until I got past the break-in miles. I can still corner as hard as I dare and make a big mess of everything not tied down in the car. It thrashes out of corners in an almost scary way, a total riot. WOT in 2nd or 3rd gear can be a mess though. Even in a straight line, TC on, I gotta be careful if I want these tires to last. It will be a long, hard wait until April when I put the OE wheels and tires back on to get the whole truth.
I haven't played much with rotating the CTR, which I understand it likes to do. I got the sense for it lifting off mid corner but these tires are not 265 wide PS4S. More understeery. Usually when I get to the limit I'm busy marveling at how the front end is clawing away at the road. The GRC is notoriously neutral, though you could get a little lift off oversteer/rotation. I had the most fun being lead-footed in it, pointing the wheel and letting it sort things out. I think the Civic will require more delicacy, even with the monster tires, and with how satisfying all the controls are to use (brakes: great in both) I really look forward to that. As rare a treat as it is for me. I need to go pretty far out of the way to get to decent driving roads
Steering
GRC was often knocked for numb steering and I guess I agree with that. Show me something that isn't numb these days. It never left me wanting anything else though. I felt I could place the car with millimeter precision when cornering, and easily. It was the highlight of one of my most enjoyable drives I had in the car - turning a long twisty stretch of road that was usually exhausting to drive at speed into a cake walk. Unfortunately, for the 99% of the time spent driving the GRC sanely the wheel gives no indication you're in some special sporty car. CTR really doesn't feel a lot different. Numb. +R mode is a little too heavy but I leave it there as it is most likely to give some feedback. Where it shines over GRC is the insane responsiveness. I can say this is down to more than just tires because that razor sharpness is still there with the same winter tires I ran on the GRC. It's there at any speed and doesn't let you forget it. AND it's somehow a peach to drive on the highway. I don't know, maybe that's the dual axis front strut doing its thing.
Shifter
I stand by my assessment of the GRC's shifter being in the same league as CTR. Where GRC goes wrong is the weighting. The throws are too heavy. I bought a weighted knob and that helped a little but also made it feel more numb. GRC's shifts are more solid and mechanical feeling. CTR has a little more soft/springiness to it. It manages to be light and flickable while still feeling solid. It's a little over-hyped, but only a little. It's very good.
Interior
Despite genuinely not liking the design of the Corolla interior and loving the Civic's I am not awash with euphoria every time I get into it. Itās still an economy car interior, just a nicer design. The new Civic interior sets the bar for such a vehicle though, such a nice place to be. The red accent lighting is a great touch too, I didnāt even know about it. Thatās what finally won over my older 2 boys haha, they gave me A TON of shit for trading the Corolla.
Anyhow those are all of my thoughts. Thanks to anyone who actually read them.
Background
I wanted the FL5 Type R since I saw the first spy shots in May 2020. I never had any sort of crush on the GR Corolla. I gave the GRC a shot because I was ready for a new DD and an allocation fell into my lap that would end up about $12k cheaper than a Type R considering $5k markup. Plus AWD, since I'm in the snow belt. My only real concern was practicality.
To give some idea of my DD priorities I need a car that handles family duty well, and I want a car that is fun to drive. That's all. I don't plan to take this car to the track, and its abilities there are not very important to me. I also have a GR86, which I do occasionally take to the track. I only mention this to establish that I understand and can appreciate track capability.
Anyhow, 3-4 months in with the GRC I was feeling like my practicality concerns were coming valid. It was by no means unusable but compromises needed to be made. I won't go into too much detail on all that because it's easy for someone to take a look at a regular Corolla or Civic hatch on the lot for themselves to get a feel for it. You know best what you need. So yeah, my most objective reason to swap was size. Subjectively, I just wanted the CTR more. It sucks to pay so much for something that isn't what you really want and feels compromised. So once markups fell on CTR, nature took its course.
Funny thing is I probably wouldn't have switched if not for the blue flame '24 GRC Circuit Edition. After they announced it I convinced myself I was going to have to upgrade from my Core. It took a while for me to realize that I was lining up to pay CTR money for another GRC. Just as that was dawning on me, a Honda dealer I had a deposit with previously came out of the blue to tell me their ADMs were dropping and he had a car in transit for me.
So here in no particular order I'll compare things that I think are important for having fun, which is the only reason these cars exist.
Ride
Ride quality was the biggest surprise with both of these cars. Right off the bat I was way happier with the GRC than I expected I'd be. I was coming from a stock 2015 WRX, owned since new. GRC was not too stiff, not too soft. It felt very solid to me. Way less crashy over bumps than my WRX (again, stock.) It could be a little floaty at higher speeds but that never made me hesitate. I liked that it worked well all-around without adjustable damper BS.
I feared for the worst with the Type R. If there was going to be a regret, I figured this would be it. People were out there saying even comfort mode is no good. Reality is that the ride in +R is honestly fine for me. Then comfort feels like a friggin Buick! I still can't believe how it is. No plans to swap out the damper control unit for the softer Integra Type S module here. I'd say GRC is between Sport and +R, a little closer to +R but not as bouncy. I still hugely respect the simplicity of the GRC's ride but CTR's adaptive dampers are no BS.
Since they are comfort related, I'll mention the seats. If you care about keeping them looking good, the Type R's seats are a chore to get in and out of. Trying not to smash up that bolster, it's their only real flaw. Lack of heated seats isn't a big deal. I've had a few really cold days and there is no pain getting into them but it would have been nice to have. The Corolla seats are its most oft-cited flaw, and I admit they pained me to look at. But they were comfortable and I never once felt a lack of bolstering when I was tossing the car around. The Civic takes the W in comfort/support. Corolla takes the W for day to day ease of use. The tie-breaker I guess is the fact that the CTRs seats are a sight to behold and add a significant holy shit factor when looking upon the car.
Engine, etc
Sound, Corolla wins handily. Once you're really ripping in the CTR it's exciting, a little more of an event to pull out to redline. But the engine sounds from the corolla can be enjoyed at most any speed. Plus it makes more turbo noise etc. I miss the GRC's noises most of all
I thought I was going to miss the turbo lag drama of the Corolla, which I love. Once I was able to give the CTR some beans I found that it can be a little unruly too. If my car has a turbo, I want to know it! The K20's power doesn't come out of nowhere and kick you in the butt, but it's fun. For my tastes and how I drive, both cars are more than adequate in terms of engine response once up in the revs, though the CTR is more precise there.
Where the CTR engine is plainly nicer to live with is the smoothness. The G16 felt like it wanted to explode if I cruised much below 2500rpm. I suspect that is one part small displacement off-boost, two parts 3-cylinder harmonics. K20 is smooth at all rpms basically. I do not miss the coarseness of the G16 for around-town.
Related to engine, a little different than engine response, is gas pedal response.
Initially I was pretty disappointed with the go-pedal in the CTR. The Corolla's pedal was perfect. I never used iMT because it was a shame to waste such a responsive pedal! Heel-toe took some major adapting due to weird pedal placement, but once I figured out a foot position that worked, that gas pedal always gave me exactly what I was asking for. For a while I even suspected iMT knew when you were trying to do it yourself and helped out, ha. Meanwhile, driving smoothly around town and stop-and-go was never an issue.
CTR's pedal initially reminded me of the GR86, unpredictable. I eventually worked out that for blipping, the 'engine' had to be in +R mode. It still wasn't perfect, but it was close. The downside then is it's a little touchier getting going from a stop, so there was a learning curve to get consistently smooth around town once I started using +R exclusively. Add to this that CTR also has an issue with pedal placement and it had an uphill battle. I adapted to heel-toe more quickly than the GRC though, using a more conventional technique. Now that I'm past the break-in and was able to get comfortable ripping it I can say they're pretty much even in terms of right foot control and ease of use. I suppose most people will use rev-match anyhow, in which case yes they're both basically equal.
Both cars seemed to average around 25mpg for me in mixed driving, 30-33 mpg cruising 70-75 straight highway. CTR a little thirstier.
Traction, handling
My GRC did not have the LSD's. Scandalous, I know. I'll be damned if it mattered. It never wanted for more grip. I had to do crazy things to get it to understeer. I may have been missing out on some gnarly torque vectoring sensations but from where I was sitting I couldn't have asked for more. Jam the right foot in it and hang on. Lots of fun, if not the most dramatic thing.
The CTR went straight to the winter tires since I bought it in late November. 235/40-18 Pilot Alpin 5, the same set of tires I ran on the GRC. Uniquely apples to apples grip comparison. I put the GRC through its paces on those tires - it was hard to believe they were legit snow tires with how good they were in the dry. It was mostly the same story with the Civic, at least until I got past the break-in miles. I can still corner as hard as I dare and make a big mess of everything not tied down in the car. It thrashes out of corners in an almost scary way, a total riot. WOT in 2nd or 3rd gear can be a mess though. Even in a straight line, TC on, I gotta be careful if I want these tires to last. It will be a long, hard wait until April when I put the OE wheels and tires back on to get the whole truth.
I haven't played much with rotating the CTR, which I understand it likes to do. I got the sense for it lifting off mid corner but these tires are not 265 wide PS4S. More understeery. Usually when I get to the limit I'm busy marveling at how the front end is clawing away at the road. The GRC is notoriously neutral, though you could get a little lift off oversteer/rotation. I had the most fun being lead-footed in it, pointing the wheel and letting it sort things out. I think the Civic will require more delicacy, even with the monster tires, and with how satisfying all the controls are to use (brakes: great in both) I really look forward to that. As rare a treat as it is for me. I need to go pretty far out of the way to get to decent driving roads
Steering
GRC was often knocked for numb steering and I guess I agree with that. Show me something that isn't numb these days. It never left me wanting anything else though. I felt I could place the car with millimeter precision when cornering, and easily. It was the highlight of one of my most enjoyable drives I had in the car - turning a long twisty stretch of road that was usually exhausting to drive at speed into a cake walk. Unfortunately, for the 99% of the time spent driving the GRC sanely the wheel gives no indication you're in some special sporty car. CTR really doesn't feel a lot different. Numb. +R mode is a little too heavy but I leave it there as it is most likely to give some feedback. Where it shines over GRC is the insane responsiveness. I can say this is down to more than just tires because that razor sharpness is still there with the same winter tires I ran on the GRC. It's there at any speed and doesn't let you forget it. AND it's somehow a peach to drive on the highway. I don't know, maybe that's the dual axis front strut doing its thing.
Shifter
I stand by my assessment of the GRC's shifter being in the same league as CTR. Where GRC goes wrong is the weighting. The throws are too heavy. I bought a weighted knob and that helped a little but also made it feel more numb. GRC's shifts are more solid and mechanical feeling. CTR has a little more soft/springiness to it. It manages to be light and flickable while still feeling solid. It's a little over-hyped, but only a little. It's very good.
Interior
Despite genuinely not liking the design of the Corolla interior and loving the Civic's I am not awash with euphoria every time I get into it. Itās still an economy car interior, just a nicer design. The new Civic interior sets the bar for such a vehicle though, such a nice place to be. The red accent lighting is a great touch too, I didnāt even know about it. Thatās what finally won over my older 2 boys haha, they gave me A TON of shit for trading the Corolla.
Anyhow those are all of my thoughts. Thanks to anyone who actually read them.
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