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javi7t8

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@ CanadaCivic believe it or not, in Europe for several years (model years 2018 - 2021) the Honda HRV had a sport 1.5T option with a 6 speed manual and panoramic roof with leather interior etc..! Now that I would've bought in a heartbeat.
Why do markets outside the US get fun stuff
 
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Saywhaat04

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The Type R is a very, very, different car compared to the Si and the Type R is also a global model, where the Si is strictly North American. It's also their halo car and they use it to set FWD records and other similar things. The Type R also doesn't seem to really depreciate even 3-4 years later, whereas the Si has a normal depreciation curve.

Honda will do whatever they think will sell (or not sell, like when they got rid of the coupe). I personally don't think an Si hatch would be worth it unless they give it GTI power, but I really hope they do. If it has the same relatively boring 205HP but in hatchback form, I think the GTI would still be more compelling for a lot of prospective buyers. The existing Sport Touring hatchback 6MT was already ~80% of an Si hatch with more interior features, only ~20 less HP and no LSD. Honda is going to need to differentiate them more than that if they want volume sales, at least in my opinion.

I probably would have saved $15K CAD and bought an Si hatch instead of my Type R if it had a bit more power and obviously the hatch, but the R is pretty awesome too haha.
The Civic platform is global. Rather or not the SI is a North American exclusive trim level or not is moot IMO. For the most part, Honda has everything they need to build an SI hatch. The Hatchback's body...and whatever the SI Sedan's mechanicals will be. I also do not buy into the line that "hatchbacks don't sell in America" because:

A) Honda is selling an all-new 11th generation Civic Hatchback in AMERICA
B) Honda is BUILDING said all-new 11th generation Civic Hatchback in AMERICA...the middle of America no less...in Indiana. EXCLUSIVELY.

If CIvic hatchbacks truly didn't sell, it would have died with the Civic Coupe, right? Mainstream Coupes don't sell globally all that well and the US was the last market to really drop them, correct? Globally and in the US, hatchback compacts still sell in decent numbers...otherwise Honda's main rivial, Toyota wouldn't be investing in the Corolla hatchback.

All of this is besides the point anyway...

We aren't talking about creating a whole new MODEL...we are talking about creating a whole new trim level of a current offering who's engine, transmission, trim, feature content will already be readily available for literally nothing in the sedan variant that will be built in Canada. It wouldn't cost Honda anymore to build an SI Hatch than it did for Honda to build the SI Coupe for years or the 2.0t/6mt Accords they built...the difference is the hatchback would EASILY outsell the Accord 6MT....both 1.5t/2.0t and probably outsell the SI Coupe. BESIDES the first Civic S and SI models were hatchbacks...two door hatchbacks, but hatchbacks none the less. VW has no problem moving the GLI/GTI/Golf R.

Its all icing on the cake because the hatchback Civic already sales very well considering the headwinds the car faces (SUV/Crossover craze) if ANYTHING I expect more and more "sedans" to become liftbacks/hatchbacks for added versatility to compete with the crossovers/suvs of the world...wouldn't be surprised if eventually the Civic hatch outsells the sedan, especially globally.

ALSO if it were REALLY REALLY all about raw sales numbers, Honda could have sold twice as many SI coupes and sedans if they had offered the car with some form of automatic transmission. Ditto the Type R. So its gotta be more than just raw numbers. "HALO" affect? Sure the Type R has that. But so could the SI, if Honda built it right...

I agree with you on one thing...the SI period, isn't worth it unless its given GTI/GLI power...regardless if its a sedan or a hatchback or both. The SI needs more power. Rather that power is from a modified 1.5t or a detuned 2.0t, I look forward to seeing what Honda does with the SI and if Honda has the balls to offer an SI hatchback. They should. Period.

The argument that the Sport Touring/SI would be competing with each other has merit, but the best way to resolve that problem is to put the 2.0t/6MT (or give the 1.5t 220 plus HP as ya'll mention) in the SI and let the Sport Touring keep the 1.5t 180hp engine that is likely going into the Hatchback Sport. Also, feature content...keep the ST loaded...keep the SI full of power with some of the tech of the ST (digital cluster, Bose audio, 9 inch touch screen) let the ST keep the leather, power seats, etc.

If we don't get an SI hatch but continue to get an ST hatch (with a 6MT) I would be content with it...but I'd really like to see an SI hatch this time around. I think Honda could pull it off, the question to me still remains if they have the balls to do it and do it right.
 
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Saywhaat04

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I don’t think there will be a sport touring hatch this time around because of the possible Si hatch. The sedan and hatch trim lines will mirror eachother. Just look at it this way, the accord sport model comes in the base sport, and the upgraded 2.0T sport (with EX features). The civic would adopt this idea, having the base sport 2.0 and then the upgraded EX based Si models. An Si hatch isn’t going to touch CTR sales, that’s a totally different car. And it probably wouldn’t effect sport trim sales either, again, price point matters for most people. Also, given the % of sales that the hatches made up for the 10th gen, they performed better than the coupes, and there was still an Si coupe. So I think it just makes sense to offer both sedan and hatch Si models, especially if Honda really means to position the hatch as the sporty offering. I also think this new structure of trims, the loss the EXL in the price structure, and looking at the accord sport models, gives at least some possibility of the new Si models offering an auto option for the first time, and having a few extras features over the regular EX trim (kind of splitting the difference between the ex and touring).

all we can do is speculate at this point. But an Si hatch with an auto option is the only thing that’s gonna push me in an 11th gen at this point. Otherwise I’ll keep my 10th gen coupe and wait for something better to come along.
Do you actually know this or is this an educated guess? So the Civic Sport hatch is gonna have the 2.0L? I guess that would make sense if an SI were offered with a higher tuned 1.5t. I just wish the hatch was keeping the 1.5t standard, the SI was getting a detuned 2.0t and the Type R was staying as is...but I already think I'm asking Honda for too much.
 

Saywhaat04

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Here's the only fly in the ointment to an Si hatch...

With the shift to SUV's, carmakers are dropping car models left and right. For the 11th, Honda has dropped some models like the EX-L and all coupes.

Based on that, you'd have an entry level LX hatch and upgraded EX. A Sport and Sport Touring model too. Adding an Si hatch would definitely cut into both the Sport and Sport Touring models to an extent.

If there was an Si hatch, I think they'd have to drop the Sport model and maybe have a lineup like this: LX, EX, Si, Touring. And honestly, that lineup would make a ton of sense, IMO.
The Sport trim of just about every Honda model is the best seller (or number two to the LX) I don't see Honda dropping the Sport trim on the Civic hatchback. Honda just dropped the EX trim on the Accords and EXPANDED the Sport trims (Sport, Sport SE and Sport 2.0t)

I think if anything what Honda should do is offer an hatchback LX (2.0L automatic only) Sport 1.5t (with EX and Sport content like in Canada with automatic and 6MT) a SI (with EX and Sport content but with more power, better handling, more raw feeling, 2.0t if possible 6MT) a Touring (loaded and automatic only), Type R with the full blown 2.0t.
 

RobbJK

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Do you actually know this or is this an educated guess? So the Civic Sport hatch is gonna have the 2.0L? I guess that would make sense if an SI were offered with a higher tuned 1.5t. I just wish the hatch was keeping the 1.5t standard, the SI was getting a detuned 2.0t and the Type R was staying as is...but I already think I'm asking Honda for too much.
We already know the hatch IS NOT getting the 1.5T standard this time. Multiple test cars have been seen sporting only a single exhaust outlet. While I don’t know definitively the trim levels of the hatch, my educated guess with the hatch moving to NA for production says it’ll mirror the sedan in trims and engine options for those trims. Like the coupe did.

It’s also been on hondas to-do list to streamline the trim offerings of all its models to cut variants across model lineups (such as the EXL going away). Keeping the same trim scheme and equipment across the sedan and hatch lowers production cost and brings the hatch more closely into the fold than the EU built hatches were.

Assuming there won’t be sport touring (just a normal touring) for the hatch, and the base sport having the 2.0L gives credence to there being an Si hatch this time around, and IMO the Si getting an auto option positioning it as the “upper” sport trim offering like the accord 2.0T is and allowing the Si to rise in price slightly to fill the gap left by the EXL trim.
 

delfinom

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Why do markets outside the US get fun stuff
They know the average American consumer will accept lower standard goods at higher standard prices without complaint. Hell, many of them will take out > 60 month loans to do it.

The Sport trim of just about every Honda model is the best seller (or number two to the LX) I don't see Honda dropping the Sport trim on the Civic hatchback. Honda just dropped the EX trim on the Accords and EXPANDED the Sport trims (Sport, Sport SE and Sport 2.0t)

I think if anything what Honda should do is offer an hatchback LX (2.0L automatic only) Sport 1.5t (with EX and Sport content like in Canada with automatic and 6MT) a SI (with EX and Sport content but with more power, better handling, more raw feeling, 2.0t if possible 6MT) a Touring (loaded and automatic only), Type R with the full blown 2.0t.
Please no, I want my Civic EX Hatch. The sport models should be illegal to sell in NYS where the first 5 feet of road will absolutely wreck 19 in tires. Things are so bad here that even Honda's "Sentinel" care warranty specifically excludes NYS and only NYS for tire coverage. We are the only state with a 24/7 government staffed hotline for potholes and in-fact own 1-800-POTHOLES.
 

Saywhaat04

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They know the average American consumer will accept lower standard goods at higher standard prices without complaint. Hell, many of them will take out > 60 month loans to do it.



Please no, I want my Civic EX Hatch. The sport models should be illegal to sell in NYS where the first 5 feet of road will absolutely wreck 19 in tires. Things are so bad here that even Honda's "Sentinel" care warranty specifically excludes NYS and only NYS for tire coverage. We are the only state with a 24/7 government staffed hotline for potholes and in-fact own 1-800-POTHOLES.
Thats crazy lol.
 

Saywhaat04

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We already know the hatch IS NOT getting the 1.5T standard this time. Multiple test cars have been seen sporting only a single exhaust outlet. While I don’t know definitively the trim levels of the hatch, my educated guess with the hatch moving to NA for production says it’ll mirror the sedan in trims and engine options for those trims. Like the coupe did.

It’s also been on hondas to-do list to streamline the trim offerings of all its models to cut variants across model lineups (such as the EXL going away). Keeping the same trim scheme and equipment across the sedan and hatch lowers production cost and brings the hatch more closely into the fold than the EU built hatches were.

Assuming there won’t be sport touring (just a normal touring) for the hatch, and the base sport having the 2.0L gives credence to there being an Si hatch this time around, and IMO the Si getting an auto option positioning it as the “upper” sport trim offering like the accord 2.0T is and allowing the Si to rise in price slightly to fill the gap left by the EXL trim.
Educated guess. Got it.
 

ebhaynz

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Assuming there won’t be sport touring (just a normal touring) for the hatch, and the base sport having the 2.0L gives credence to there being an Si hatch this time around, and IMO the Si getting an auto option positioning it as the “upper” sport trim offering like the accord 2.0T is and allowing the Si to rise in price slightly to fill the gap left by the EXL trim.
Those Si test mules spotted back in Nov were definitely sedans. There's still a chance we'll get Si hatches too, but Si sedans are almost a certainty.
 

jtrader

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I saw this the other day here in Vegas. We should be very thankful Honda has upped their game!
Yes, they def upped it with the 10th gen!
The jury is still out for the 11th gen though.
 

TypeSiR

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David Harper

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Now that I've seen the eleventh gen...............I'm glad I got the tenth.
 

JimmEEE

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Those Si test mules spotted back in Nov were definitely sedans. There's still a chance we'll get Si hatches too, but Si sedans are almost a certainty.
Yes- While I'd like an Si hatch as much as anybody, most of the buzz about it has been in this forum and ones like it, not from Honda officially. Let's hope product planners at Honda are listening, otherwise this could be wishful thinking.
 
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