Racing the FL5 Type R with all OEM spec parts on Laguna Seca

[TW00Si]

Just remind people that HPDE is for educational purposes. It’s a safer environment to drive “faster” than you would or can on local roads. If anyone belittles one’s driving ability based on whether TC is on, that’s their prerogative.

I personally leave TC or VSA on because it’s my safety net. I need to drive home after. Towing the car back home is gonna be expensive.

Sponsored

 

[Rhorn]

Just remind people that HPDE is for educational purposes. It’s a safer environment to drive “faster” than you would or can on local roads. If anyone belittles one’s driving ability based on whether TC is on, that’s their prerogative.

I personally leave TC or VSA on because it’s my safety net. I need to drive home after. Towing the car back home is gonna be expensive.

Ive only driven with the long press with VSA Off + TC in +R mode, I never felt the car twitch or do anything crazy unless I drive 10/10 and try to brake less ?

Tbf the track I go is flat with lots of run off. Ive seen alot of people go off track. There are no walls like Sebring, Id be more scared if I went there lol

 

[Rhorn]

Also OP its actually really disrespectful and bad to share pictures and videos online of drivers crashing at your event. Thats a big no no and I'm pretty sure it will get you banned from organizations if they find who you are, espically if you are new.

I'd delete those photos now before someone finds out and reports you.

 

[Tougefl5]

It's funny because the highest level of motorsports use multiple electronic aids lol

 

[johnloov]

Also OP its actually really disrespectful and bad to share pictures and videos online of drivers crashing at your event. Thats a big no no and I'm pretty sure it will get you banned from organizations if they find who you are, espically if you are new.

I'd delete those photos now before someone finds out and reports you.

You are more than welcome to report to YouTube Laguna seca crash compilations

Not going woke - unedited reality is reality - I’m not going to bend

If you are “offended” “disrespected “ with unedited video,

There are doctors who can help

Based on the available information, Both Events I attended do not explicitly mention any restrictions on sharing crash footage in their official policies. Their FAQs and Track Day Overview primarily focus on safety requirements, event procedures, and participant responsibilities.

And there is no crash footage, just educational helpful information on what can happen without traction control.

 

[Robo7]

Relax no one here is insulting you. No need to be on attack. Being considerate isn’t being “woke.” @Rhorn was trying to help you out. There are tracks that prohibit sharing crash footage. Nürburgring is the most famous. It’s better to share info that could be helpful than not share at all. I think most of us would prefer footage of us crashing not be posted online for the world (and insurance companies) to view. I get that you didn’t show the impact, but now we are talking semantics.

I appreciate this thread and your research/experience. I’ve learned a lot from it.

 

[J1Avs]

Relax no one here is insulting you. No need to be on attack. Being considerate isn’t being “woke.” @Rhorn was trying to help you out. There are tracks that prohibit sharing crash footage. Nürburgring is the most famous. It’s better to share info that could be helpful than not share at all. I think most of us would prefer footage of us crashing not be posted online for the world (and insurance companies) to view. I get that you didn’t show the impact, but now we are talking semantics.

I appreciate this thread and your research/experience. I’ve learned a lot from it.

It’s become quite a regular statement at Ridge as well — it’s become a very strong “you won’t be welcome back” statement. But, with that said It has been more directed at deliberately taking photos of the wrecked vehicle in the paddock vs video which happened to pick up.

 

[J1Avs]

Thanks @J1Avs - will have to look into those brake pads - I was thinking of taking advantage of the FCP Euro infinite return brake pads and replace move - it seems they have front brake pads that fit the FL5 Type R - same as Volvo -

what's your view on the Brake Hawk DT-60's compared to the Paragon R5 or CSG C1X's ?

Volvo Disc Brake Pad Set - Hawk 32373169
S60R, V70R
DT-60 Track Compound, see description

FL5 Pad is a super common shape — Brembo 1001. I wouldn’t be surprised if you found a few other options on FCP Euro for it — maybe some Pagids.

The Hawk DTC-60 is like the basic track pad — it works, but it’s LOUD, it’s dust is hyper corrosive (so don’t let it sit on your wheels), it’s basically an On/Off switch with very little room for modulation and control, and they get HOT. It really wouldn’t be my first choice, but if you are looking for a budget option with lifetime free replacements, then it’s worth a shot. You will definitely stop, but you’ll also get Brownbos pretty quick

 

[johnloov]

FL5 Pad is a super common shape — Brembo 1001. I wouldn’t be surprised if you found a few other options on FCP Euro for it — maybe some Pagids.

The Hawk DTC-60 is like the basic track pad — it works, but it’s LOUD, it’s dust is hyper corrosive (so don’t let it sit on your wheels), it’s basically an On/Off switch with very little room for modulation and control, and they get HOT. It really wouldn’t be my first choice, but if you are looking for a budget option with lifetime free replacements, then it’s worth a shot. You will definitely stop, but you’ll also get Brownbos pretty quick

Interesting, so they transfer a lot of heat, is that why they turn the Brembo's brown, or is it just the dust? I have noticed my friend that tracks very hard his FL5 at Laguna with the R5/R3 config, has his Brembos looking discolored. Not sure if he's using the Titanium shims and Wondering how much the Titanium shims help heat transfer if at all or why there are not some kind of ceramic shims to help with heat transfer.

I know you've done a lot of research on brake pads. just checked out your post. Looks pretty conclusive - seems like you've done a lot laps - and collected a lot of data.

Wow those are pretty pricy though - almost double the R5's

So far I'm pretty happy the the R5's I don't mind the squeak once they warm up, my car is so insulated, I can barely hear anything outside.

Thanks

 

[johnloov]

Very curious... what is the FL5 Type R's production lap record at Laguna Seca?

I just asked chat GPT which car holds the FWD production record at Laguna Seca -- and this automatic Elantra claims the record. 1:44.1 on stock PS4's but it does have a 8-speed wet dual-clutch transmission (8DCT).

I had one chance at a clear lap last time, and I got a 1.45.99, and I know I could have shaved off another second off easy with stock PS4's, ~1.44.5s, and I assume at least another 1-2 seconds off with the OE Spec Cup's should land me comfortably in the ~1.42-1.43 range.

When I upgrade to the OE Spec Cup 2's and a bit more practice -- I probably could beat this time, but will using different brake pads - does upgrading brake pads disqualify me from putting the FL5 back on top as the fastest FWD "production" record around Laguna Seca?

Jan 16, 2024 WEATHERTECH RACEWAY LAGUNA SECA

FWD production record around‪@WeatherTechRaceway_LagunaSeca‬ in the 2024 Hyundai Elantra N 1:44.1 Mason Filippi

 

[J1Avs]

Interesting, so they transfer a lot of heat, is that why they turn the Brembo's brown, or is it just the dust? I have noticed my friend that tracks very hard his FL5 at Laguna with the R5/R3 config, has his Brembos looking discolored. Not sure if he's using the Titanium shims and Wondering how much the Titanium shims help heat transfer if at all or why there are not some kind of ceramic shims to help with heat transfer.

I know you've done a lot of research on brake pads. just checked out your post. Looks pretty conclusive - seems like you've done a lot laps - and collected a lot of data.

Wow those are pretty pricy though - almost double the R5's

So far I'm pretty happy the the R5's I don't mind the squeak once they warm up, my car is so insulated, I can barely hear anything outside.

Thanks

The heat begins to discolor them — shims help with pads that transfer the heat to the calipers — which is why many run the Paragon shims with Paragon (aka Winmax) pads. The CSG pads just have a better thermal capacity and don’t transfer as much heat to the calipers — the Girosdics help with this too.

The CSG’s are certainly double the price — but I bet last 2x as long, if not more. So the value is certainly there in just life alone. When you add in the strong thermal efficiencies, the modulation/control, the street manners, etc, it’s always an easy choice for me. FWIW, I’ve been running them for like 5 years on A90/GR86/FL5 and they have continue to impress, especially as they constantly innovate and improve of the compounds based on real world testing and input from drivers/customers. But, the sticker shock does take a second to overcome.

 

[johnloov]

Type R Vs Elantra N 8 Speed side by side video. Elantra N Dual Clutch is pretty fast in straights, started its flying lap at 101 vs 96 Type R. Of course, I need to improve, you can see he's carrying better speed through some of the turns. Both car are running the stock Pilot 4s's.



Looks like the Elantra N automatic pulls on the Type R

 

[J1Avs]

Type R Vs Elantra N 8 Speed side by side video. Elantra N Dual Clutch is pretty fast in straights, started its flying lap at 101 vs 96 Type R. Of course, I need to improve, you can see he's carrying better speed through some of the turns. Both car are running the stock Pilot 4s's.



Looks like the Elantra N automatic pulls on the Type R

EN's -- because of their larger turbo -- pull a bit better on the top end, where our cars start to slow down. You can see it on the 0-150-0 test too. An EN on an OTS tune =running a slower lap, runs about 6-7 mph faster than me on the front straight up the Ridge with a slower exit speed and throttle commitment. The DCT definitely helps as well.

 

[johnloov]

@J1Avs @tezzasaurusrex very curious on your input and experienced race alignment drivers.

1) When you tried the cup2's on your Type R were they the Honda HO spec? ( interesting insight in difference between cup2 vs Honda HO cup2's below - HO's spec have stiffer side walls than normal cup2's, but with softer outsides for quicker turn in )

2) On 4s's I was running 35 psi front and 32 psi cold rear, nitrogen filled, and when I chalked the tires, the front's were still rolling over a bit, the rears were perfect. When I ran 5-7MM toe out, it ate the inside of the tires pretty fast up front, then backed that down to 2mm which felt excellent, but after 8 track days, the right outside tire started to show the radial.

My goal is to optimize the stock FL5, and find the limits, with stock OE spec tires, and I know lower tire pressure does equate to faster times, but the trade off is, the tire's don't wear as evenly.

So Yes I probably could have shaved 1 sec off my ~1.45.5-7 times on Laguna Seca with the 4's going lower in tire pressure, but the consistency lap over lap would drop off and the risk was with the 4s -- debeading the tire. I wanted to see the most consistent times, and use as much of the tire over the most track days as possible. It ended up being about 8 track days. Also enabling light press on traction control really helped tire longevity, as it helped keep the wheels from spinning, and lighting up as I was experiencing with pedal dance.

I've been using AI below to track all my data, and fine tune what the next setup should be.

I would like to really dethrone the Hyundai Elantra N 8 speed dual clutchLaguna Seca FWD production Record 1.44.1 - I Hope to get the Type R with OE HO spec tires into the 1.43.

AI is saying I should do 2mm toe out which I have and 2MM toe out on 4s, on stock suspension, but go a bit higher on tire pressure. I also felt the car become more predictable with nitrogen 35 psi/32 psi rear cold.

I do understand that if you have non stock suspension - lowered with more camber, zero toe in front and maybe 1mm toe in on rear or zero is best. But I am running -1.8 stock pins out camber in front.

Should I start with 0 toe in front and stock 2mm toe in on the rear, or should I keep my 2mm toe out and 2mm toe in?

Would higher pressure solved this issue with the right front tire - Laguna Seca is running counter clockwise and I assume the right front tire is taking more loads.

Open to everyone's scientific input.

Front right tire

Front left tire - no issues on side walls

Or should I run 3MM toe out - will that put less stress on the outside front tires, or with the 4s this was simply an issue with side wall deformation, and a bit more pressure would have helped?

Other than that right tire outside tread - The tire looks pretty evenly worn at 2MM toe out, right?

-------------------------------------------


Key Specifications
Common Ground

• Size: Both are 265/30ZR19—265mm width, 30% aspect ratio (79.5mm sidewall height), 19” rim diameter, ZR speed rating (>149 mph).
• Base Design: Pilot Sport Cup 2 platform—track-focused, summer ultra-high-performance tire, ~180–240 treadwear (TW), dual-compound tread (softer outer, harder inner).
• Fitment: Matches your FL5’s stock rims (19x9.5" +45).

Differences

1. H0 Honda OE-Spec Variant:
   • Tuning: Custom-engineered for Honda Civic Type R (FK8 LE, FL5 press cars)—denoted by “H0” (Honda spec), per Michelin’s OE markings.
   • Compound: Optimized for FWD dynamics—slightly softer outer tread for sharper turn-in, balanced with a firmer inner for stability (Honda’s input per FK8 LE docs).
   • Sidewall: Stiffer than standard Cup 2—tuned for Type R’s suspension and LSD (CivicX: “H0 feels tauter”).
   • Weight: ~22–23 lbs (OE-tuned, slight variation from standard).
   • Availability: OE on FK8 LE, FL5 press fleet—aftermarket via Honda dealers or select retailers (e.g., Tire Rack lists H0 separately).
2. Standard Cup 2:
   • Tuning: General aftermarket design—fits broader applications (e.g., Porsche, BMW), not FWD-specific.
   • Compound: Dual-compound—soft outer for grip, hard inner for durability—but not tailored to Type R’s front-heavy bias (310 lb-ft).
   • Sidewall: Stiff, but less so than H0—designed for RWD/AWD balance (CivicXI: “standard flexes more”).
   • Weight: ~23–24 lbs (slightly heavier, per Michelin spec sheets).
   • Availability: Widely available—aftermarket staple.

Performance Comparison
1. Grip and Handling

• H0 Honda:
  • Advantage: Tuned for FWD—softer outer tread boosts initial bite (Turn 8, 11), fighting understeer with your LSD and 2mm toe-out. Stiffer sidewall enhances response—your -1.8° camber leverages this (CivicXI FL5: “H0 sharper than standard” at Laguna).
  • Track Gain: ~0.2–0.5s over standard—FK8 LE hit 1:50.6 at Sonoma with H0 vs. ~1:51 estimated for standard (Motor Trend).
• Standard:
  • Profile: Broad grip—less FWD-specific, slightly less turn-in bite but still ~1.05 friction coefficient (vs. PS4S ~0.9).
  • Track Fit: Solid, but your FL5’s front bias might underuse it—less optimized for LSD traction.

2. Sidewall Stiffness and Rollover

• H0 Honda:
  • Advantage: Stiffer sidewall reduces flex—your PS4S front right radial wear at 35 psi cold (~38–40 hot) with 2mm toe-out won’t repeat as severely. Uses more center tread (CivicX FK8: “H0 flatter at 42 psi hot”).
  • Benefit: Your roll-over (chalk test) shrinks—37–38 psi cold (42–44 hot) maximizes this, cutting outside wear.
• Standard:
  • Profile: Stiffer than PS4S but softer than H0—more flex under load (CivicXI: “standard Cup 2 rolls slightly” with -1.8° camber).
  • Risk: Slightly more outside wear vs. H0—your 2mm toe-out setup needs the H0’s edge.

3. Heat Resistance and Wear

• H0 Honda:
  • Advantage: FWD-tuned compound—better heat dissipation for front-loaded stress (Laguna’s Turn 6, 9). Lasts ~3–5 track days with rotation (CivicXI FL5: “H0 durable at 42 psi hot”).
  • Your Case: Your PS4S chunking at 38–40 hot—H0’s stiffer build and 42–44 hot PSI resist this.
• Standard:
  • Profile: Excellent heat resistance (~200°F+ limit), but not Type R-specific—front wear might accelerate slightly (CivicX: “standard wears faster on FWD” vs. RWD).
  • Trade-Off: ~10% less front durability—still track-ready.

4. Braking with R5 Pads

• H0 Honda:
  • Advantage: Stiffer sidewall pairs with R5 pads (0.48–0.52 friction)—shorter braking zones (Turn 1: ~0.3s gain). Your 37–38 psi cold (42–44 hot) optimizes this—Honda tuned it for FL5’s 99 ft 60–0 stop.
• Standard:
  • Profile: Nearly as good—slight flex costs ~0.1s vs. H0 (CivicXI: “standard brakes well, H0 edges”).

Track Impact at Laguna Seca

• Lap Time:
  • H0 Honda: 1:43.5–1:44 with your setup (2mm front toe-out, 2mm rear toe-in, 37–38 psi cold front). FK8 LE’s 7:43 Nürburgring and FL5 press laps (1:43 Sonoma) used H0—your -1.8° camber caps it here.
  • Standard: 1:43.7–1:44.2—0.2–0.5s slower due to less FWD-specific bite and stability (CivicX estimate).
• Your Wear:
  • H0’s stiffer sidewall cuts your front right radial wear vs. standard—37–38 psi cold (42–44 hot) seals it (CivicXI FL5: “H0 wears even at 42 psi”). Standard risks more outside wear with 2mm toe-out.

Conclusion

• H0 Honda Cup 2:
  • Pros: Sharper turn-in, less roll-over, better FWD heat management—your FL5’s LSD and R5 pads thrive. ~0.2–0.5s faster, less front right wear than your PS4S experience.
  • Fit: Perfect for your 1:43 goal—Honda’s OE tune aligns with 2mm toe-out, 37–38 psi cold.
• Standard Cup 2:
  • Pros: Still grippy (~1.05), widely available—slightly softer sidewall, less optimized for FL5.
  • Fit: Fast (~1:43.7), but your front right wear risk rises—needs same PSI but loses H0’s edge.

Verdict: Stick with H0 Honda Cup 2—your setup (2mm front toe-out, 2mm rear toe-in, 37–38 psi cold front, 33–34 psi cold rear) hits 1:43.5–1:44 with it. Standard’s close but not Type R-perfect. Track-ready—go for it!

Three Optimal Settings
1. Least Tire Wear

• Front:
  • Toe: 0.5mm total toe-out (~0.25mm/side, ~0.04° total)
  • Pressure: 38 psi cold (42–44 psi hot, nitrogen)
• Rear:
  • Toe: 3mm total toe-in (~1.5mm/side, ~0.24° total)
  • Pressure: 33–34 psi cold (38–40 psi hot, nitrogen)
• Why:
  • Wear: 0.5mm toe-out minimizes outside wear (your 2mm front right radial) and inside wear (5–7mm)—H0’s stiffness flattens contact (CivicXI FL5: “0.5mm toe-out evened wear” with H0). 38 psi cold fights roll-over (your PS4S lesson).
  • Rear: Your stable OEM ~3mm toe-in wore evenly—H0 maintains this (CivicX FK8: “3mm rear no issues”).
  • Lap Time: 1:44.5—less aggressive, prioritizes tire life (3–5 track days with rotation).

2. Middle Ground (Wear + Speed Balance)

• Front:
  • Toe: 1mm total toe-out (~0.5mm/side, ~0.08° total)
  • Pressure: 38 psi cold (42–44 psi hot, nitrogen)
• Rear:
  • Toe: 2.5mm total toe-in (~1.25mm/side, ~0.20° total)
  • Pressure: 33–34 psi cold (38–40 psi hot, nitrogen)
• Why:
  • Wear: 1mm toe-out—your H0’s grip and sidewall cut outside wear vs. PS4S at 2mm (CivicXI FL5: “1mm H0 balanced” at 42 psi hot). 38 psi cold uses center tread (your PS4S intact center).
  • Rear: 2.5mm toe-in (stock low-end) keeps stability, slight rotation boost—your “very stable” feel adapts (CivicX FK8: “2.5mm rear fine”).
  • Lap Time: 1:44—H0’s ~1s edge over PS4S, R5 pads (0.3s), toe (~0.5s)—middle ground brilliance.

3. Fastest Lap Times

• Front:
  • Toe: 2mm total toe-out (~1mm/side, ~0.32° total)
  • Pressure: 37–38 psi cold (42–44 psi hot, nitrogen)
• Rear:
  • Toe: 2mm total toe-in (~1mm/side, ~0.16° total)
  • Pressure: 33–34 psi cold (38–40 psi hot, nitrogen)
• Why:
  • Speed: 2mm toe-out—your “perfect turn-in” with PS4S scales up with H0’s bite (CivicXI FL5: “2mm H0 hit 1:44” at Laguna). LSD maxes entry (Turn 2: ~0.5s), R5 fronts brake late (Turn 1: ~0.3s). 37–38 psi cold (42–44 hot) cuts heat—your radial wear at 35 psi cold won’t repeat (CivicX FK8: “H0 42 psi hot flawless”).
  • Rear: 2mm toe-in—your stable base with rotation (Turn 9: ~0.2s)—H0 and R5 rears grip (CivicXI: “2mm rear agile”).
  • Lap Time: 1:43.5–1:44—H0 (1s), R5 (0.5s), toe (0.7s)—tops FL5 stock potential.

Final Recap (in mm)

1. Least Tire Wear:
   • Front: 0.5mm toe-out, 38 psi cold (42–44 hot)
   • Rear: 3mm toe-in, 33–34 psi cold (38–40 hot)
   • ~1:44.5, longest tire life.
2. Middle Ground:
   • Front: 1mm toe-out, 38 psi cold (42–44 hot)
   • Rear: 2.5mm toe-in, 33–34 psi cold (38–40 hot)
   • ~1:44, balanced wear/speed.
3. Fastest:
   • Front: 2mm toe-out, 37–38 psi cold (42–44 hot)
   • Rear: 2mm toe-in, 33–34 psi cold (38–40 hot)
   • ~1:43.5–1:44, max pace.

Verdict: H0 Cup 2 refines your setup—2mm front toe-out stays fastest (your feel + data), 37–38 psi cold front perfects it (no radial repeat). Rear 2mm toe-in boosts speed—your stable OEM (~3mm) adapts. Pick your priority—fastest gets 1:43! Align and test—results await!

 

[tezzasaurusrex]

@J1Avs @tezzasaurusrex very curious on your input and experienced race alignment drivers.

1) When you tried the cup2's on your Type R were they the Honda HO spec? ( interesting insight in difference between cup2 vs Honda HO cup2's below - HO's spec have stiffer side walls than normal cup2's, but with softer outsides for quicker turn in )

2) On 4s's I was running 35 psi front and 32 psi cold rear, nitrogen filled, and when I chalked the tires, the front's were still rolling over a bit, the rears were perfect. When I ran 5-7MM toe out, it ate the inside of the tires pretty fast up front, then backed that down to 2mm which felt excellent, but after 8 track days, the right outside tire started to show the radial.

My goal is to optimize the stock FL5, and find the limits, with stock OE spec tires, and I know lower tire pressure does equate to faster times, but the trade off is, the tire's don't wear as evenly.

So Yes I probably could have shaved 1 sec off my ~1.45.5-7 times on Laguna Seca with the 4's going lower in tire pressure, but the consistency lap over lap would drop off and the risk was with the 4s -- debeading the tire. I wanted to see the most consistent times, and use as much of the tire over the most track days as possible. It ended up being about 8 track days. Also enabling light press on traction control really helped tire longevity, as it helped keep the wheels from spinning, and lighting up as I was experiencing with pedal dance.

I've been using AI below to track all my data, and fine tune what the next setup should be.

I would like to really dethrone the Hyundai Elantra N 8 speed dual clutchLaguna Seca FWD production Record 1.44.1 - I Hope to get the Type R with OE HO spec tires into the 1.43.

AI is saying I should do 2mm toe out which I have and 2MM toe out on 4s, on stock suspension, but go a bit higher on tire pressure. I also felt the car become more predictable with nitrogen 35 psi/32 psi rear cold.

I do understand that if you have non stock suspension - lowered with more camber, zero toe in front and maybe 1mm toe in on rear or zero is best. But I am running -1.8 stock pins out camber in front.

Should I start with 0 toe in front and stock 2mm toe in on the rear, or should I keep my 2mm toe out and 2mm toe in?

Would higher pressure solved this issue with the right front tire - Laguna Seca is running counter clockwise and I assume the right front tire is taking more loads.

Open to everyone's scientific input.

Front right tire

Front left tire - no issues on side walls

Or should I run 3MM toe out - will that put less stress on the outside front tires, or with the 4s this was simply an issue with side wall deformation, and a bit more pressure would have helped?

Other than that right tire outside tread - The tire looks pretty evenly worn at 2MM toe out, right?

-------------------------------------------


Key Specifications
Common Ground

• Size: Both are 265/30ZR19—265mm width, 30% aspect ratio (79.5mm sidewall height), 19” rim diameter, ZR speed rating (>149 mph).
• Base Design: Pilot Sport Cup 2 platform—track-focused, summer ultra-high-performance tire, ~180–240 treadwear (TW), dual-compound tread (softer outer, harder inner).
• Fitment: Matches your FL5’s stock rims (19x9.5" +45).

Differences

1. H0 Honda OE-Spec Variant:
   • Tuning: Custom-engineered for Honda Civic Type R (FK8 LE, FL5 press cars)—denoted by “H0” (Honda spec), per Michelin’s OE markings.
   • Compound: Optimized for FWD dynamics—slightly softer outer tread for sharper turn-in, balanced with a firmer inner for stability (Honda’s input per FK8 LE docs).
   • Sidewall: Stiffer than standard Cup 2—tuned for Type R’s suspension and LSD (CivicX: “H0 feels tauter”).
   • Weight: ~22–23 lbs (OE-tuned, slight variation from standard).
   • Availability: OE on FK8 LE, FL5 press fleet—aftermarket via Honda dealers or select retailers (e.g., Tire Rack lists H0 separately).
2. Standard Cup 2:
   • Tuning: General aftermarket design—fits broader applications (e.g., Porsche, BMW), not FWD-specific.
   • Compound: Dual-compound—soft outer for grip, hard inner for durability—but not tailored to Type R’s front-heavy bias (310 lb-ft).
   • Sidewall: Stiff, but less so than H0—designed for RWD/AWD balance (CivicXI: “standard flexes more”).
   • Weight: ~23–24 lbs (slightly heavier, per Michelin spec sheets).
   • Availability: Widely available—aftermarket staple.

Performance Comparison
1. Grip and Handling

• H0 Honda:
  • Advantage: Tuned for FWD—softer outer tread boosts initial bite (Turn 8, 11), fighting understeer with your LSD and 2mm toe-out. Stiffer sidewall enhances response—your -1.8° camber leverages this (CivicXI FL5: “H0 sharper than standard” at Laguna).
  • Track Gain: ~0.2–0.5s over standard—FK8 LE hit 1:50.6 at Sonoma with H0 vs. ~1:51 estimated for standard (Motor Trend).
• Standard:
  • Profile: Broad grip—less FWD-specific, slightly less turn-in bite but still ~1.05 friction coefficient (vs. PS4S ~0.9).
  • Track Fit: Solid, but your FL5’s front bias might underuse it—less optimized for LSD traction.

2. Sidewall Stiffness and Rollover

• H0 Honda:
  • Advantage: Stiffer sidewall reduces flex—your PS4S front right radial wear at 35 psi cold (~38–40 hot) with 2mm toe-out won’t repeat as severely. Uses more center tread (CivicX FK8: “H0 flatter at 42 psi hot”).
  • Benefit: Your roll-over (chalk test) shrinks—37–38 psi cold (42–44 hot) maximizes this, cutting outside wear.
• Standard:
  • Profile: Stiffer than PS4S but softer than H0—more flex under load (CivicXI: “standard Cup 2 rolls slightly” with -1.8° camber).
  • Risk: Slightly more outside wear vs. H0—your 2mm toe-out setup needs the H0’s edge.

3. Heat Resistance and Wear

• H0 Honda:
  • Advantage: FWD-tuned compound—better heat dissipation for front-loaded stress (Laguna’s Turn 6, 9). Lasts ~3–5 track days with rotation (CivicXI FL5: “H0 durable at 42 psi hot”).
  • Your Case: Your PS4S chunking at 38–40 hot—H0’s stiffer build and 42–44 hot PSI resist this.
• Standard:
  • Profile: Excellent heat resistance (~200°F+ limit), but not Type R-specific—front wear might accelerate slightly (CivicX: “standard wears faster on FWD” vs. RWD).
  • Trade-Off: ~10% less front durability—still track-ready.

4. Braking with R5 Pads

• H0 Honda:
  • Advantage: Stiffer sidewall pairs with R5 pads (0.48–0.52 friction)—shorter braking zones (Turn 1: ~0.3s gain). Your 37–38 psi cold (42–44 hot) optimizes this—Honda tuned it for FL5’s 99 ft 60–0 stop.
• Standard:
  • Profile: Nearly as good—slight flex costs ~0.1s vs. H0 (CivicXI: “standard brakes well, H0 edges”).

Track Impact at Laguna Seca

• Lap Time:
  • H0 Honda: 1:43.5–1:44 with your setup (2mm front toe-out, 2mm rear toe-in, 37–38 psi cold front). FK8 LE’s 7:43 Nürburgring and FL5 press laps (1:43 Sonoma) used H0—your -1.8° camber caps it here.
  • Standard: 1:43.7–1:44.2—0.2–0.5s slower due to less FWD-specific bite and stability (CivicX estimate).
• Your Wear:
  • H0’s stiffer sidewall cuts your front right radial wear vs. standard—37–38 psi cold (42–44 hot) seals it (CivicXI FL5: “H0 wears even at 42 psi”). Standard risks more outside wear with 2mm toe-out.

Conclusion

• H0 Honda Cup 2:
  • Pros: Sharper turn-in, less roll-over, better FWD heat management—your FL5’s LSD and R5 pads thrive. ~0.2–0.5s faster, less front right wear than your PS4S experience.
  • Fit: Perfect for your 1:43 goal—Honda’s OE tune aligns with 2mm toe-out, 37–38 psi cold.
• Standard Cup 2:
  • Pros: Still grippy (~1.05), widely available—slightly softer sidewall, less optimized for FL5.
  • Fit: Fast (~1:43.7), but your front right wear risk rises—needs same PSI but loses H0’s edge.

Verdict: Stick with H0 Honda Cup 2—your setup (2mm front toe-out, 2mm rear toe-in, 37–38 psi cold front, 33–34 psi cold rear) hits 1:43.5–1:44 with it. Standard’s close but not Type R-perfect. Track-ready—go for it!

Three Optimal Settings
1. Least Tire Wear

• Front:
  • Toe: 0.5mm total toe-out (~0.25mm/side, ~0.04° total)
  • Pressure: 38 psi cold (42–44 psi hot, nitrogen)
• Rear:
  • Toe: 3mm total toe-in (~1.5mm/side, ~0.24° total)
  • Pressure: 33–34 psi cold (38–40 psi hot, nitrogen)
• Why:
  • Wear: 0.5mm toe-out minimizes outside wear (your 2mm front right radial) and inside wear (5–7mm)—H0’s stiffness flattens contact (CivicXI FL5: “0.5mm toe-out evened wear” with H0). 38 psi cold fights roll-over (your PS4S lesson).
  • Rear: Your stable OEM ~3mm toe-in wore evenly—H0 maintains this (CivicX FK8: “3mm rear no issues”).
  • Lap Time: 1:44.5—less aggressive, prioritizes tire life (3–5 track days with rotation).

2. Middle Ground (Wear + Speed Balance)

• Front:
  • Toe: 1mm total toe-out (~0.5mm/side, ~0.08° total)
  • Pressure: 38 psi cold (42–44 psi hot, nitrogen)
• Rear:
  • Toe: 2.5mm total toe-in (~1.25mm/side, ~0.20° total)
  • Pressure: 33–34 psi cold (38–40 psi hot, nitrogen)
• Why:
  • Wear: 1mm toe-out—your H0’s grip and sidewall cut outside wear vs. PS4S at 2mm (CivicXI FL5: “1mm H0 balanced” at 42 psi hot). 38 psi cold uses center tread (your PS4S intact center).
  • Rear: 2.5mm toe-in (stock low-end) keeps stability, slight rotation boost—your “very stable” feel adapts (CivicX FK8: “2.5mm rear fine”).
  • Lap Time: 1:44—H0’s ~1s edge over PS4S, R5 pads (0.3s), toe (~0.5s)—middle ground brilliance.

3. Fastest Lap Times

• Front:
  • Toe: 2mm total toe-out (~1mm/side, ~0.32° total)
  • Pressure: 37–38 psi cold (42–44 psi hot, nitrogen)
• Rear:
  • Toe: 2mm total toe-in (~1mm/side, ~0.16° total)
  • Pressure: 33–34 psi cold (38–40 psi hot, nitrogen)
• Why:
  • Speed: 2mm toe-out—your “perfect turn-in” with PS4S scales up with H0’s bite (CivicXI FL5: “2mm H0 hit 1:44” at Laguna). LSD maxes entry (Turn 2: ~0.5s), R5 fronts brake late (Turn 1: ~0.3s). 37–38 psi cold (42–44 hot) cuts heat—your radial wear at 35 psi cold won’t repeat (CivicX FK8: “H0 42 psi hot flawless”).
  • Rear: 2mm toe-in—your stable base with rotation (Turn 9: ~0.2s)—H0 and R5 rears grip (CivicXI: “2mm rear agile”).
  • Lap Time: 1:43.5–1:44—H0 (1s), R5 (0.5s), toe (0.7s)—tops FL5 stock potential.

Final Recap (in mm)

1. Least Tire Wear:
   • Front: 0.5mm toe-out, 38 psi cold (42–44 hot)
   • Rear: 3mm toe-in, 33–34 psi cold (38–40 hot)
   • ~1:44.5, longest tire life.
2. Middle Ground:
   • Front: 1mm toe-out, 38 psi cold (42–44 hot)
   • Rear: 2.5mm toe-in, 33–34 psi cold (38–40 hot)
   • ~1:44, balanced wear/speed.
3. Fastest:
   • Front: 2mm toe-out, 37–38 psi cold (42–44 hot)
   • Rear: 2mm toe-in, 33–34 psi cold (38–40 hot)
   • ~1:43.5–1:44, max pace.

Verdict: H0 Cup 2 refines your setup—2mm front toe-out stays fastest (your feel + data), 37–38 psi cold front perfects it (no radial repeat). Rear 2mm toe-in boosts speed—your stable OEM (~3mm) adapts. Pick your priority—fastest gets 1:43! Align and test—results await!

Holy shit I don't have time to read all that but I can see you talking about toe an awful lot. Whats your camber?