Spoon Rigid Collars installed on FL5

[EvanMcC]

you should at least have them check your alignment

the cars subframe front and rear from factory won’t be perfectly straight due to these larger holes for screw clearance and to allow the robots more wiggle room when mating them together

these collars require the tech to loosen the subframe and when these are installed it aligns the chassis and subframes as they take out these tolerances. So when installing these in most cases your subframe actually shifted a little bit which would throw your alignment off

I’m not saying it always throws it off. Just saying the probability is high.

I had these on my fk8 and it shifted my subframe enough throwing my front alignment out of spec

@DagCTR - would you be able to elaborate a little more on the effect these had on your FK8? The more detail the better! I would be putting on an FL5 but lived with an FK8 for 5years.

The above review was good - but the more info the better.

Thanks

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[DagCTR]

@DagCTR - would you be able to elaborate a little more on the effect these had on your FK8? The more detail the better! I would be putting on an FL5 but lived with an FK8 for 5years.

The above review was good - but the more info the better.

Thanks

The original poster nailed it.

So without these any time you hit a bump, turn the car etc. it all feels great. But all of those actions are improved upon with these. The only reason I can think of is it’s because there is just that little play in when the subframes and car turn or move and when it communicates it to the chassis. With these installed everything communicates with each other faster because they are perfectly aligned and joined together.

to me it seemed like these had more of an effect on up and down movement rather then side to side. The car will hit bumps and settle back faster. The movement will also feel less harsh

it’s all an effect of the car being stiffer which in turn allows the suspension to do what it’s supposed to do.

spoon has a great catalog for streetcars. Rigid collars/stiff plate/springs/bump steer kit makes the type r an amazing canyon carver. Even better so all those modifications will carry over to the track when you want to move to coilovers and even more bracing from other companies

 

[EvanMcC]

The original poster nailed it.

So without these any time you hit a bump, turn the car etc. it all feels great. But all of those actions are improved upon with these. The only reason I can think of is it’s because there is just that little play in when the subframes and car turn or move and when it communicates it to the chassis. With these installed everything communicates with each other faster because they are perfectly aligned and joined together.

to me it seemed like these had more of an effect on up and down movement rather then side to side. The car will hit bumps and settle back faster. The movement will also feel less harsh

it’s all an effect of the car being stiffer which in turn allows the suspension to do what it’s supposed to do.

spoon has a great catalog for streetcars. Rigid collars/stiff plate/springs/bump steer kit makes the type r an amazing canyon carver. Even better so all those modifications will carry over to the track when you want to move to coilovers and even more bracing from other companies

Perfect - thank you for that extra review! lol

It all makes engineering sense to me - I guess my only unknown is whether or not it'll create/reveal NVH that is un-wanted. Typically, there's always a trade-off when you start to stiffen things up - with these rigid collars - it doesn't seem like there is a trade-off. Was worried it was too good to be true I guess. But thanks all for your inputs.

 

[DagCTR]

Perfect - thank you for that extra review! lol

It all makes engineering sense to me - I guess my only unknown is whether or not it'll create/reveal NVH that is un-wanted. Typically, there's always a trade-off when you start to stiffen things up - with these rigid collars - it doesn't seem like there is a trade-off. Was worried it was too good to be true I guess. But thanks all for your inputs.

I’ve always thought that Up to a point and until you start stiffening springs and shock settings…stiffening the chassis shouldn’t increase nvh and in some instances will actually decrease nvh

since these deal more with stiffening the chassis and not stiffening the suspension you will probably have less nvh. When the chassis isn’t stiff or rigid the suspension system is fighting a two sided battle. It’s dampening the road below and the forces are moving the chassis since the chassis isn’t stiff and secure 100% to the subframes.

stiffening the chassis will let the suspension components do what they were designed to do better. Absorb shock

most manufactures just don’t have the budget to go ham on chassis stiffening and bracing

 

[EvanMcC]

I’ve always thought that Up to a point and until you start stiffening springs and shock settings…stiffening the chassis shouldn’t increase nvh and in some instances will actually decrease nvh

since these deal more with stiffening the chassis and not stiffening the suspension you will probably have less nvh. When the chassis isn’t stiff or rigid the suspension system is fighting a two sided battle. It’s dampening the road below and the forces are moving the chassis since the chassis isn’t stiff and secure 100% to the subframes.

stiffening the chassis will let the suspension components do what they were designed to do better. Absorb shock

most manufactures just don’t have the budget to go ham on chassis stiffening and bracing

Agreed - ok I'm convinced.

Same logic applies to the home-audio hobby when isolating vibrations from components. Speaker design as well - gotta have an inert cabinet so that the only movement in the entire speaker system is driver itself - the intended sound. No 'other' sounds stemming from the movement of the sides or back of the cabinet.

Thanks again!

 

[Robert.C]

Perfect - thank you for that extra review! lol

It all makes engineering sense to me - I guess my only unknown is whether or not it'll create/reveal NVH that is un-wanted. Typically, there's always a trade-off when you start to stiffen things up - with these rigid collars - it doesn't seem like there is a trade-off. Was worried it was too good to be true I guess. But thanks all for your inputs.

The only real trade-off is that you’re introducing the possibility of transmitting forces that would previously have been absorbed by the sub-frame directly into the chassis. Only really applicable in extreme circumstances, but better to damage/twist/bend the sub-frame than the unibody.

 

[Village911]

@mbaapk

 

[DagCTR]

Just got my front and rear sets installed and car aligned

Just as Village911 posted his findings the rigid collars still have a great result even with the FL5

When I first bought the fl5 i thougt this chassis and steerings feels like my fk8 did with the spoon rigid collars and stiff plate, so I wondered how much change the rigid collars would have on the improved and more stiff fl5.

Good new to report is it is still a very noticeable change and still remains one of the best modifications you can do

 

[EvanMcC]

Just got my front and rear sets installed and car aligned

Just as Village911 posted his findings the rigid collars still have a great result even with the FL5

When I first bought the fl5 i thougt this chassis and steerings feels like my fk8 did with the spoon rigid collars and stiff plate, so I wondered how much change the rigid collars would have on the improved and more stiff fl5.

Good new to report is it is still a very noticeable change and still remains one of the best modifications you can do

How do you find the 'regular driving' NVH and stuff now - suitable for a daily-driven car? I'm not really looking for any further stiffness, but would always take more direct steering, body control etc.

Thanks

 

[DagCTR]

Direct steering and body control are both improved. Noise and vibration are still present on really bad roads but harshness is vastly improved.

 

[TypeRD]

What would be amazing is if someone did a test before and after installation of the collars ; I’m thinking something similar to what the car mags do. Acceleration, braking, lateral g’s, trap time, etc. etc. Surely stiffening things up would/should have a direct effect in a lot of measurable performance parameters that we all understand and accept…even if the improvements are subtle. I’d like to know, objectively, what the collars do.

 

[DagCTR]

I don't know for sure but I wouldn't think the the collars would improve any of those metrics except maybe lateral g's or a figure 8 time. Anything that would involve more turns or change of direction. Those would improve maybe directly from the subframes and chassis being perfectly aligned so the weight side to side after an alignment would be better, and improvement indirectly from better driver confidence with steering and better body motion recovery if going over strips on the track.

I don't think acceleration, braking, or trap times would be improved that much

 

[TypeRD]

Right, exactly! Where I’m thinking it could maybe improve acceleration and braking is the fact that these are also changes in direction and should/would benefit (if only slightly). But yeah, figure 8 and curvy track tests would likely show the most benefit (as you said) vs straight line tests.

 

[mbaapk]

@mbaapk

How are these now that its been a while?

 

[mrtuna]

Not a type R, but I got the collars installed onto an 11th Si.

Here's what I could feel and maybe provide a different perspective

• my personal biggest change: clutch pickup and rolling behavior changed.
  • Before: on a normal commute launch, there is a small jolt before wheels begin to move.
  • After: on a normal commute launch, there is linear pickup sensation as wheels begin to move.
  • Because the "jolt" or non-linear sensation has been eliminated, it may make the clutch feel seem more numb (on the Si).
• By ear: Average noise levels are lower. Will still pickup the same amount of noise (frequency is the same). Individual noises are dampened (noise peaks are lower)
• Much like the first 2 points, bumps and such feel dampened. Could imagine something loosely taped to a surface in your car vs taped well enough so that it doesn't move.
• Steering correction as others have pointed out is improved. One instance for me as an example, I would say there is less need of turning the wheel to achieve the same amount of steering as before collars.
• Reduces "noise" in vibrations coming through the steering wheel. Noise being the vibrations that don't pertain to the contact with the road.
• Another subjective feeling: I don't feel as beat up/tired after driving

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